<p>Anyway, back on topic, the eight schools that are officially in the Ivy League:</p>
<p>Harvard University
Yale University
Princeton University
Columbia University
Dartmouth College
Brown University
The University of Pennsylvania
Cornell University</p>
<p>However, like many other posters mentioned, there are also other similarly elite and selective schools out there, and it would a good idea to research all the schools according to your own personal needs rather than to just apply to Ivy League schools.</p>
<p>two things. First of all, UC-Berkeley's med school is essentially UCSF. As I recall, UCSF and Penn trade off third and fourth ranked med programs in the country.</p>
<p>second of all, and more to the point.... if you can get into more than one of those schools and actually can choose between them, I really, really, really hope for your future happiness that the criterion you use is not prestige. Each school has its strength in different subject areas and therefore will be viewed differently in different circles. More importantly, those four schools are so different from each other it's ridiculous to compare them like that.</p>
<p>And as a final note, the originator of this thread... could have used google.</p>
<p>i'm so sick of hearing people harp about berkeley, it's a public school, it's undergrad is not comparable to any ivy, no one outside of california cares about it.</p>
<p>Blighted Rain, it is important to define what an Ivy League is. The tenor of your question (whether or not Rice is "considered" one of the Ivies) makes it seem like any good university can be considered an Ivy League. That is not the case. The Ivy League is an athletic conference no different from the Big 10 or the Pac 10. As such, it has a concrete number of members, in the case of the Ivy League, 8 members. The eight members are:</p>
<p>Brown University
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Harvard University
Princeton University
University of Pennsylvania
Yale University</p>
<p>No other university can be part of the Ivy League. There are 8 and ONLY 8. </p>
<p>This said, there are several other universities that are just as good and highly regarded as the universities of the Ivy League, and I am of the opinion that Rice is one of those universities. Here's a list of roughly 25 colleges and universities that I feel are of the same calibre as the Ivy League. Remember, I am merely expressing my opinion. No doubt many will disagree with my assessment. </p>
<p>LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGES
Amherst College
Bowdoin College
Carleton College
Claremont McKenna College
Haverford College
Middlebury College
Pomona College
Swarthmore College
Wesleyan College
Williams College</p>
<p>PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES
California Institute of Technology
Duke University
Emory University
Georgetown University
Johns Hopkins University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Northwestern University
Rice University
Stanford University
University of Chicago
University of Notre Dame
Vanderbilt University
Washington University-St Louis</p>
<p>PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES
University of California-Berkeley
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Virginia</p>
<p>elsijfdl, I am not from California and I have no affiliation whatsoever with the state. I did visit it a couple of times and even worked there as an intern for an entire summer and found the entire state to be souless. However, your statement that since Cal is "a public school, it's undergrad is not comparable to any ivy" and that "no one outside of california cares about it" is way off. </p>
<p>1) Cal's undergraduate education is unbeatable. Full stop! You will not find a single expert on education that willl dare question that fact. Cal being a top 10 undergraduate university is just as scientifically proveable as 1+1 = 2! </p>
<p>2) If nobody outside California cared about it, why is it that close to 10,000 out-of-staters apply to it each year?</p>
<p>Thethoughtprocess, I listed 25 or so universities of varying quality. I agree that some of the schools on the list are stronger than others, but my attempt was to list schools that are of equal or slightly lower stature as the Ivies.</p>
<p>Cal's peer assessment score is 4.7/5.0, good for 6th in the nation. Like I said, you will not find many in academe who will share your sentiment. To you, Cal may not be a top 20 university, but to the majority of the highly educated people on Earth, Cal is clearly one of the top 10 universities in the US.</p>
<p>"If nobody outside California cared about it, why is it that close to 10,000 out-of-staters apply to it each year?"</p>
<p>Um.. seeing as how cal only gets about 30,000 applications each year and that their acceptance rate is about 28-30%, subtract about 5% because it may be harder to get in out of state, that gives you about a 24% acceptance rate for out of state students. If your number was correct that would mean 7200 out-of-state students are admitted every year. </p>
<p>Since only 10% of Cal's student body is oos, that would mean the oos yield rate is about 28%, which is extremely low, so your vaulted numbers only imply that no one from out of state really wants to go to cal.</p>
<p>"To you, Cal may not be a top 20 university, but to the majority of the highly educated people on Earth, Cal is clearly one of the top 10 universities in the US."</p>
<p>USNEWS</p>
<ol>
<li>Princeton University(NJ)<br></li>
<li>Harvard University(MA)<br></li>
<li>Yale University(CT)<br></li>
<li>California Institute of Technology<br></li>
<li>Stanford University(CA)<br></li>
<li>Massachusetts Inst. of Technology<br></li>
<li>University of Pennsylvania<br></li>
<li>Duke University(NC)<br></li>
<li>Dartmouth College(NH)<br></li>
<li>Columbia University(NY)<br></li>
<li>University of Chicago<br></li>
<li>Cornell University(NY)<br></li>
<li>Washington University in St. Louis<br></li>
<li>Northwestern University(IL)<br></li>
<li>Brown University(RI)<br></li>
<li>Johns Hopkins University(MD)<br></li>
<li>Rice University(TX)<br></li>
<li>Vanderbilt University(TN)<br></li>
<li>Emory University(GA)<br></li>
<li>University of Notre Dame(IN)<br></li>
</ol>
<p>unless the people writing those rankings do not qualify as "highly educated people on earth"</p>
<p>it's already been addressed that cal gets good peer assessments because of its graduate programs, and its undergraduate numbers, or lack thereof, speak for themselves and thus lower its ranking considerably.</p>
<p>elsijfdl, you should admit it when you are wrong an move on, rather than try to backtrack. You made two sweeping statements:</p>
<p>1) That Cal cannot compete with the Ivies. I never said that you aren't entitled to your opinion. I merely answered back by saying that very few experts on education would agree with you. By "experts", I mean researchers, professors, deans and presidents of major undergraduate institutions, corporate recruiters etc... You are entitled to your opinion that Cal is not a top 20 university. All I am saying is that most people who have had significant exposure to education and universities would not agree with your assessment.</p>
<p>2) That nobody outside of the state of California cares about Cal. I did not say that Cal had a great yield rate. What I said is that many OOS applicants apply to Cal. The acceptance rate for out of staters at Cal is actually 20%. I said close to 10,000 OOS apply to Cal each year. Let us say 9,000. 20% of 9,000 is 1,800. The actual number of OOS students entering Cal each year is roughly 500. In other words, a yield rate of 28%. that's not bad. Very few universities have yield rates above 40%. Schools like the University of Chicago, Johns Hopkins and Caltech have yield rates under 35%. But my point stands, if nobody outside of the state of California cared about Cal, why would thousands of out of staters apply to Cal each year?</p>
<p>"You are entitled to your opinion that Cal is not a top 20 university. All I am saying is that most people who have had significant exposure to education and universities would not agree with your assessment."</p>
<p>I just posted three of the most respected and cited sets of rankings saying they did.</p>
<p>"What I said is that many OOS applicants apply to Cal"</p>
<p>And then 3/4 of them get accepted somewhere better and go there, even paying higher tuition.</p>
<p>"why would thousands of out of staters apply to Cal each year?"</p>
<p>in case they do not get accepted to an actual top 20 university.</p>
<p>1) The Laissez Faire and Revealed Preferences are not rankings of academic quality. All they rank is the preference of 17 year old students. No offense, but 17 year olds are not the experts I had in mind.</p>
<p>2) The USNWR has very few highly educated employees. In fact, last tme I checked, there wasn't a sinhgle employee who worked at the USNWR who was once responsible for truly analyzing the quality of an undergraduate institution's curriculae or its final product: the students it graduates and how well they do in the work place or at graduate schools. </p>
<p>So no, you proved nothing. </p>
<p>And no, the Peer Assessment score has nothing to do with the quality of graduate schools. If it did, Cal would get a score of 5.0. Cornell, Michigan, Penn, UCLA and Wisconsin would all get much higher ratings too. Dartmouth, on the other hand, would not make the top 50 list. And yet, according to the PA score, Penn and Dartmouth have identical scores. How is that if the Peer Assessment measured quality of graduate programs? The USNWR Peer Assessment score survey filled by the hundreds of deans, presidents and professors at the top 100 national universities requests those who paticipate in the survey to rate the quality of UNDERGRADUATE education at peer institutions.</p>
<p>So the 70% of students who turn down Caltech and Chicago also going to better schools, or is that an infliction purely inherent to Cal? And are you suggesting that Cal is a safety for those applying to other top 20 universities? Do you realize how selective Cal is for OOS students?</p>
<p>There's been so much discussion on the CC board lately about women's colleges and which is the oldest, I feel I should point out that you probably meant Wesleyan University, not Wesleyan College which is a women's college -- and a very good one -- in Georgia.</p>
<p>Of course, the inclusion of "university" in it's name (ever since it was chartered) does not make Wesleyan any less of a liberal arts college.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The Ivy League is an athletic conference no different from the Big 10 or the Pac 10. As such, it has a concrete number of members, in the case of the Ivy League, 8 members. The eight members are:</p>
<p>Brown University
Columbia University
Cornell University
Dartmouth College
Harvard University
Princeton University
University of Pennsylvania
Yale University</p>
<p>No other university can be part of the Ivy League. There are 8 and ONLY 8.</p>
<p>This said, there are several other universities that are just as good and highly regarded as the universities of the Ivy League, and I am of the opinion that Rice is one of those universities. Here's a list of roughly 25 colleges and universities that I feel are of the same calibre as the Ivy League. Remember, I am merely expressing my opinion. No doubt many will disagree with my assessment.</p>
<p>LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGES
Amherst College
Bowdoin College
Carleton College
Claremont McKenna College
Haverford College
Middlebury College
Pomona College
Swarthmore College
Wesleyan College
Williams College</p>
<p>PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES
California Institute of Technology
Duke University
Emory University
Georgetown University
Johns Hopkins University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Northwestern University
Rice University
Stanford University
University of Chicago
University of Notre Dame
Vanderbilt University
Washington University-St Louis</p>
<p>PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES
University of California-Berkeley
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Virginia