<p>@brinazarski: Here’s a sample of a high school profile. which is sent along with a student’s transcript to colleges; ask your guidance counselor to view a copy of your school’s profile: <a href=“http://www.bls.org/ftpimages/314/download/2010-11%20BLS%20Profile.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bls.org/ftpimages/314/download/2010-11%20BLS%20Profile.pdf</a></p>
<p>AP’s courses are standardized; an AP course taught in California should have the same rigor as the identical course in New York and everywhere else in between. That said, every student should play to their strength – because you love Art, you should (in theory) find the AP Studio Art course easier than someone who hates Art. Ditto with every other course. </p>
<p>BTW: The AP Bio test in past years was considered ultra rigorous because the College Board would not identify key areas that would appear on the test, but in 2011 the test was revised to “focus on measuring a student’s ability to apply knowledge — to develop and test scientific hypotheses, for example.” See: [College</a> Board Announces Changes to AP Biology Course and Exam](<a href=“News and Press Releases - Newsroom | College Board”>News and Press Releases - Newsroom | College Board)</p>
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<p>“Should have” maybe but that isn’t how it happens in practice.</p>
<p>Actually, having spoken to a number of AP teachers, the College Board is pretty strict. To receive authorization from the College Board to label a course “AP,” teachers must submit A syllabus and complete an audit form, which is basically a year-long lesson plan. See: [AP</a> Course Audit - Home Page](<a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>AP Course Audit – AP Central | College Board)</p>
<p>In addition, the College Board oftentimes sends auditors unannounced into high schools for random spot checks to make sure teachers are teaching the stated curriculum.</p>
<p>Consistent curricula isn’t the same as consistent rigor. The College Board doesn’t standardize length and difficulty of homework assignments or the difficulty of course (i.e. in-class) examinations. Nor does teaching from a standardized curriculum magically grant all teachers the same level of teaching ability beyond the bare minimum required to certify them. Nor does it force a particular teaching methodology or style upon instructors as long as they cover what’s needed for the test. </p>
<p>Given the ability for these variables to fluctuate from teacher to teacher, school to school, it’s entirely reasonable to expect that one school’s Physics is tougher than its Bio and another school has the reverse.</p>
<p>For what anecdotal evidence is worth, I’m surrounded by friends here at Harvard who all took the same AP classes I did. In the few (read: very few) times we’ve discussed them, we all have very different ideas about which ones were difficult and easy.</p>
<p>@ gibby: Huh, I’ve never heard of that, but based on the info provided, I guess I know how my own school works (I know it’s different then there.) My current Math class is treated like an AP, I can probably find out if the College Now ones are treated like APs. Problem solved there, I guess!</p>
<p>But since I’m supposed to take harder courses, would it be wrong for me then to take Latin and Art, since those are easier for me, and instead opt for harder subjects, let’s say, AP World History? Naturally, of course, I’d rather take subjects I like as opposed to ones I may hate…</p>
<p>^^ Only your guidance counselor can answer the “would it be wrong” question. The reason: next year your GC must complete a Secondary School Report (SSR) for you and it specifically asks the GC to rate the rigor of your courses AS COMPARED TO OTHER COLLEGE BOUND STUDENTS AT YOUR SCHOOL. See page 2 (upper right hand side) of SSR: <a href=“https://www.commonapp.org/commonapp/Docs/DownloadForms/2012/2012SchoolReport_download.pdf[/url]”>https://www.commonapp.org/commonapp/Docs/DownloadForms/2012/2012SchoolReport_download.pdf</a></p>
<p>Ah… okay. My guidance counselor has already complained that I overwork myself, so I guess I must be taking the most hardest courses possible? Idk. But thanks guys! I think I kinda’ have the schedule conflict resolved now :)</p>
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<p>I am going to just say that this is one of the most accurate things I’ve ever heard. Taking classes simply because you think they’ll bring your GPA up isn’t what any university is looking for. If you want Harvard to see you as a “different” candidate, consider self-studying an AP test (and scoring a 5 on it!) instead of simply taking classes because you like the teacher or w/e.</p>
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<p>Well, when I said what you quoted above about shying away from challenges, ellefalloir, this was not what I meant at all. I highly doubt that “self-studying” an AP would help a Harvard applicant stand out. I believe there are literally tens of thousands of Harvard applicants who do that every year. (I also highly doubt that there’s any lasting academic value in most self-studying for AP exams, and I truly suspect–and fervently hope–that the nation’s most selective colleges and universities see “self-studying” as a shallow attempt at trophy-collecting.)</p>
<p>And I think that liking a teacher is an excellent reason for taking a class if you like the teacher for the right reason. If you like the teacher because he or she challenges you and brings out the best in you as a student, I think you absolutely should take that teacher’s class. Almost no matter what the subject is. And I think this for a couple of reasons. First, Harvard claims (and I believe them) that they are looking for extraordinarily capable students with extraordinary love of learning; one mark of such a student, I think, would be taking the class of a favorite teacher regardless of “how it looks to colleges.” And second, even for extremely well qualified applicants, the chances of getting into Harvard College are so small that there’s no point in missing out on a valuable educational opportunity in order to try to twist yourself into a shape that you think might possibly be appealing to the people at 86 Brattle Street.</p>
<p>Self-studying is trophy collecting? How so?
Universities look for people with a passion for learning, like you said. If a person wants to go into pre-med in college, why on earth should they not self-study AP biology or AP chemistry if they can’t fit it into their schedule? They want to know the material, don’t they? What better way than to use the AP curriculum to prepare for what they want to focus on in college?</p>
<p>That’s not trophy collecting, that’s being passionate about learning a subject and PROVING that you know it (via the AP exams). People shouldn’t be limited by the number of classes/exams they are “allowed” to take by their school if they really want to learn something.
<a href=“I%20also%20highly%20doubt%20that%20there’s%20any%20lasting%20academic%20value%20in%20most%20self-studying%20for%20AP%20exams,%20and%20I%20truly%20suspect–and%20fervently%20hope–that%20the%20nation’s%20most%20selective%20colleges%20and%20universities%20see%20%22self-studying%22%20as%20a%20shallow%20attempt%20at%20trophy-collecting.”>quote</a>
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<p>Some people only see AP scores as “numbers”, but they forget that they actually are realistic indicators of how much knowledge a student has about a subject. These are college-curriculum based tests. If you manage to learn college material, by yourself, with an already heavy courseload, and score a 4+ on the exam, I would imagine that it would be something *anybody<a href=“not%20just%20adcoms”>/i</a> would commend you on.</p>
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<p>Do you really think that’s the definition of a high school student’s favorable opinion of a teacher?
A high school’s favorite teacher is somebody who throws extra credit at them, gives direct curves, and manages to add in several “bonus projects” at the end of the year that can turn a low C- to an A. Trust me. That is everybody’s favorite teacher in a high schooler’s opinion. </p>
<p>It’s not the teacher that “challenges” the student, because from my experience, those teachers are always the severely underappreciated ones. Most students complain about the (challenging) courseload and attempt to avoid that sort of teacher at all costs.
However, that’s from a typical high schooler’s point of view.</p>
<p>I categorically believe that most self-study for AP exams is trophy-collecting, done for the sake of impressing admissions committees, and not for the sake of learning. Otherwise, what would be the point of spending hundreds of dollars in registration fees in order to amass more AP credits than most colleges allow students to bring in?</p>
<p>I categorically believe that rarely, if ever, does a sixteen-year-old with a Kaplan prep book get an educational experience that is comparable to a college course. The fact that so many teenagers can score 4’s and 5’s without taking the class says more about the College Board’s AP racket than about the teenagers, in my opinion.</p>
<p>I do accept, however, that most high-school students favor teachers who are easy graders and preposterously generous with extra credit. But these people are not at all scholarly, and they are not the students Harvard wants. That does not mean that my advice above would not apply to a student who actually is well suited to an elite college or university.</p>
<p>Sent from my DROIDX using CC</p>
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<p>Not to sound like a jerk but it depends on what kind of student we’re talking about. The ones who are competitive for top school admission probably appreciate challenging teachers more than the “typical high schooler.” I know that in my high school, the high achieving students had much different opinions about certain instructors than the ones who struggled.</p>
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<p>I think you’re being too harsh. There are certainly cases when self-studying APs is superfluous, but often times a high school simply doesn’t have APs or even hard courses at all. So after a bright student finishes his homework in 10 minutes, maybe he has a desire to learn more. And so what if he also has a desire to prove to colleges that he’s capable of handling a tougher courseload than his school offers? You can call it trophy collecting but life, and certainly college admissions, is about not only having abilities but showing you have them.</p>
<p>But in the event that a student already has access to a rigorous courseload and is self-studying APs at the expense of ECs, social life, sleep, etc…I’d be more inclined to call it trophy collecting or whatnot.</p>
<p>Fair point. Thank you, Dwight.</p>
<p>How can your current math class be treated like an AP if you aren’t even doing pre-calc yet? </p>
<p>As for your schedule, I agree you should take what you love, but top school will look for a certain amount of rigor. What’s rigorous enough is highly variable. If you attend a school where only 3 APs are offered, a rigorous schedule may have only 3 APs. But the kid who gets into Harvard from that school may have found another way study a subject in depth. I think you have to take another math course and another year of English. Courses that are designated as “college level” by your school should be the equivalent of APs. In your shoes I’d probably try to take AP Bio and the AP Studio Art (which I took as a high school senior many years ago and was a great experience.) In fact I ended up majoring in Visual and Environmental Studies at Harvard thanks to that course.</p>
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<p>I know. That’s why I said “typical” high schooler.
Some do learn to understand the value of teachers that challenge them. Some, but not all.
Then again, a lot of other students competing for top schools will do whatever is necessary to achieve a higher GPA. It’s a sad fact (but true). If they feel like they can earn an A easier in AP GOV than AP ECON, then they’ll take AP GOV.
I just sincerely hope adcoms can distinguish those types of schedules from actually rigorous ones. It’s different for every school, though.</p>
<p>@ mathmom: We’re learning Pre-Calc in a month. This month. We learned Trig and Algebra 2 before the regular classes, we went ultra-quick with no double period, and my teacher makes the questions harder than regular level Trig.</p>
<p>I’ll reply to the rest in a sec, just saw that comment and wanted to reply.</p>
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<p>You keep saying that. I don’t want to sound like Inigo Montoya, but I have to confess, I don’t know what it means. (And I know, that’s not quite how the line goes.) In a very real sense, there’s no such thing as precalculus. I mean, we’ve been calling that class *Precalculus *for about 25 years now, but really, it’s a mishmosh: some more algebra; a review of exponential and logarithmic functions; trigonometry that goes beyond right triangles and SOHCAHTOA; polar coordinates and some of their uses; maybe parametric equations; maybe some study of vectors and matrices. At least, that was more or less the syllabus for the last version of Precalc that I taught (minus the matrices and vectors). And a lot of that stuff isn’t really preparation for differential calculus!</p>
<p>Bottom line: if your school says students who complete your current course are ready to learn calculus, they probably are. But “learning Pre-Calc in a month” (whatever that prhase means) may be entirely reasonable if you’re already good at algebra, trig and logarithms.</p>
<p>Ugh. Stupid message went past 20 minutes and I lost the freaking post. Dang it CC. I’m not going to bother to retype.</p>
<p>Basically, in my school, you take Algebra I, then Geometry, the Algebra II + Trig, then Pre-Calc, THEN Calculus. However, my course combines The Algebra II + Trig course with the Pre-Calc course, so it’s two years of math in one year, plus, they make it tougher than the normal high school level. It’s so difficult it’s considered an AP class, though there’s no exam, it’s weighted like one. My teacher even says that it looks better to colleges to get an 85 in this class then to get a 90 in a regular Trig class. I’ve been pretty upset since I haven’t done so well, but all the adults at the school tell me I shouldn’t be so down on myself because it’s a really difficult class. Does that make it any clearer? You cannot take AB Calc or BC Calc in my school without this class, or a year of Pre-Calc.</p>