<p>Taking calculus over two years (AB one year and (the rest of) BC the next year) is less rigorous than taking it in one year (i.e. one year BC course). Surely any high school counselor or college admissions reader would realize that, even though having students take calculus over two years allows the high school to run up the “number of AP courses/tests taken” in their school profile.</p>
<p>The students who can take calculus over two years are those who reach calculus as juniors (two grade levels ahead), meaning that they are the top math students. These are the students who will likely get an easy A in a one year BC course and an easy 5 on the AP test, so forcing them to take calculus over two years is clearly inappropriate.</p>
<p>I have heard some teachers argue that teaching BC in one year is extremely difficult because there is so much material to be covered, and there are so many administrative things that interrupt teaching in the high school setting. It is especially difficult to get through all of the material in BC calculus in one year in school systems where the academic year doesn’t start until after Labor Day or where there may be many snow days (which are not made up until after the AP tests). The AP tests take place in May no matter what your district’s school calendar looks like and no matter what kind of weather you’ve had during the year.</p>
<p>Back when almost everyone took calculus as a senior, some teachers and guidance counselors would recommend that kids take AB because it’s actually possible to get through all the material, with the students truly understanding it. They felt it was better to truly master the content of AB rather than half-learning the content of BC. Now that many kids take calculus as juniors, the option of dividing up the BC course into two years has become attractive.</p>
<p>A College math class would meet a nominal 3 hours a week for 15-16 weeks (normally 50 minutes 3x/week or 75 minutes 2x/week). To get through Calc II, you’d need 3 hours a week for 30-32 weeks.</p>
<p>Starting the week of Labor Day this year, I count 15 weeks before Christmas week (giving a full week off at Thanksgiving). Count 2 weeks off for winter break and 1 week in the spring for spring break and there are 16 weeks before May 6th when the AP exams begin (AP Calc is Wednesday, May 8th in 2013). </p>
<p>So, there are essentially 2 full college semesters worth of weeks, but with 2/3 more class time in the high school class. Even if you miss a lot for snow days and assemblies and such, 2/3 more class time is a LOT more.</p>
<p>Admittedly, my daughter’s school started in mid-August and missing more than a couple of days for ice is rare, but they finished the BC curriculum by the end of March (with spring break in March) and basically spent all of April reviewing. Her teacher was awesome in that the pace just felt natural – he covered the material and they learned it, but it didn’t feel like a forever-sprint or an endurance trial. However, he also adjuncted at a local college and had a good sense of what the pace in a college class should be.</p>
Not sure about the practices elsewhere but when I taught Calc I at the college level we met EVERY SINGLE DAY, and when I took it as an undergrad we met at least 4 days a week.</p>
<p>When I was in high school, we covered BC in one year without feeling rushed (and students were not failing or dropping the course because it was too hard, nor did they do poorly on the AP test). Class time in the high school course was similar to or greater than the total class time in a typical college course.</p>
<p>If you’re starting kids in Algebra in 7th grade, you can keep them enrolled in math classes at the school by offering AB/BC as a two-year sequence. Or you can have them take stat senior year. Or you might have one of the rare high schools that offers second year calculus (differential equations, linear equations) on campus, or via a nearby college. Choosing among these options depends on the student body, the school’s budget and location.</p>
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:eek: Marian, I’m going to guess you meant “back when almost everyone who was going to take calculus in high school took it as a senior”.</p>
<p>Ucbalumnus - What if a student doesn’t have a choice but to take AB and BC in two separate years because that is what is offered at the school and students are not allowed to skip AB and go directly into BC? For my daughter’s school, those are the most rigorous math classes so a counselor would consider them rigorous. </p>
<p>BC uses the same book as AB but picks up where they left off in AB so they can’t skip because the AB concepts are not retaught.</p>
<p>msndis – Online? There are lots of colleges offering calc via distance ed. UIUC, BYU, UT, LSU, etc. It wouldn’t be an AP course, but a dual enrollment situation. You might also find a local school that would offer dual enrollment.</p>
<p>For a math-y kid, probably the best choice would be Art of Problem Solving (whose calculus course covers the full BC material), although they’re not accredited yet so you might have to negotiate with your high school to get them to accept it.</p>
<p>These other providers offer AP Calc BC online:
Indiana University’s High School – iuhighschool.iu.edu
<p>My high school was the same way, but it was quite difficult because while in college Calc is 1 of 4 classes you take, in high school it’s 1 of 7.</p>
<p>My son took the calculus sequence in reverse just for paperwork-related issues. He taught himself Calculus BC as a sophomore, took the AP exam and earned a 5. Later the school found him an accredited online Calc BC class which he took for credit over the summer (his school doesn’t offer Calc BC). Then, in his 3rd and final year he took his school’s Calc AB class.</p>
<p>Of course this makes no sense from any intellectual standpoint, and he in fact spent his time in the Calc AB class tutoring his classmates, tutoring classmates in AP Stats, which was being held in a nearby room, or studying unconventional math for Math Team competitions.</p>
<p>Yet from a paperwork standpoint, he needed as many APs as possible for the most rigorous designation and to maintain his #1 class rank (which is weighted). Plus he needed to take a math class his final year to be eligible for the school’s $2500 Alumni Math Scholarship, in spite of the fact that he had already exhausted the math curriculum (he won it, btw).</p>
<p>These students (and sometimes parents) are putting all this stress and pressure to take Calculus in high-school and/or get all of these AP credits and/or get into “honors this and honors that” because they feel that these so-called selective schools is the golden path.</p>
<p>In reality…</p>
<p>1) Unless you are have 30+ AP credits…you are STILL graduating 4 years later</p>
<p>2) Even the math major programs start at Calculus I</p>
<p>3) Most employers (well, at least in computer science/software development) could care less about how many AP credits one had…could care less about if your courses were honors…could care less if you had Calculus in high school.</p>
<p>4) We start the new fresh grads at the same level (and very similar pay levels). The new grads from the so-called “selective schools” are sitting right next to the State-U grads who are sitting next to the “2+2” grads who are sitting next to the grads who took 5 years to graduate (because they started with Pre-Calculus). Same projects…same cubicle/office, etc.</p>
<p>Way too much extra stress for nothing gained.</p>
<p>I know, I know…references to who Google, Microsoft and Apple hired in 5…4…3…2…</p>
<p>Well, then there is no choice. But the school is really doing the top math students a disservice.</p>
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<p>Those who start in algebra in 7th grade are two grade levels ahead (i.e. top students in math), and should be able to handle calculus at the same pace that college freshmen who are zero grade levels ahead can. Simply because the high school wants to run up the “number of AP courses and tests taken” does not mean that it is a good idea to slow pace their math courses when they are in all likelihood those who are hungry to learn math at a faster pace.</p>
<p>If the number of students two grade levels ahead in math is significant, then a dual enrollment arrangement with a local college for college sophomore level math courses would be more appropriate.</p>
<p>(But this is sort of off-topic to the subject of the thread, which is that pushing students to be more grade levels ahead in math than they would “naturally” be is not generally a high value proposition in terms of college admissions, since few colleges actually require or assume calculus in high school.)</p>
<p>Not the point I was trying to make. A high school might not have the resources to offer math classes that are going to continue to satisfy those who want to learn math at a faster pace. Nothing more sinister than that. :)</p>
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<p>Just about every kid in D1’s small magnet school was at least two years ahead in math. The school offered AB, BC, Stat and an independent math study class to cover those who’d already gone through all available math coursework. Dual enrollment wasn’t a practical option. Everyone took AB and BC, because that’s what was available. </p>
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<p>Well, no. Sometimes people are just good at math. I’ve got one kid who finds it really easy, and another who, uhm, doesn’t. If you like it and are good at it, then taking Calc in high school is a pleasure.</p>
This is the way it was in my high school and this is the way it is in my son’s high school. They offer AB, it’s taken mostly be seniors who are scared to take BC or who don’t see themselves as future STEM majors anyway. I don’t think you could take AB and then BC - it certainly wasn’t encouraged.</p>
<p>I like Calc AB even for kids who are just ok in math. Given the number of college majors that require at least some calculus, a kid who is not really strong in math can either take AB – a semester of college calc – offered over a 170 day school year with a class of 35 students taught by a teacher who is likely a native English speaker or at least very, very fluent, using a textbook provided by the school. Or, he can head to college and take that same material in a fifteen week semester, most often with a professor (and usually a TA) for whom English is often not even a second language, in a class of 80-150 students, with a book that costs $150. </p>
<p>Calc AB is a far cry from the Apostol tex I struggled with back in the day, but I don’t think that there’s any loss in my D not having to learn delta epsilon proofs, and in being challenged to work problems with applications other than physics or abstract math.</p>
<p>My D’13 is taking AP Calculus BC this year after finishing the highest level of IB math (math methods SL) offered at her school. She plans to study physics in college so needs to continue math in high school. Most of the kids in her class are IB seniors. They were very surprised to hear that everything is multiple choice- not something they are used to in IB.</p>
Some teachers aren’t very good. My younger son had a pre-calc teacher who manage to teach the pre-calc curriculum and then the entire AB Calc curriculum even though he wasn’t supposed to. (All the other teachers started on the Calc book in early April.) Teachers in our school manage to fit in the entire BC curriculum even though school starts after Labor Day and there is a weeklong February break and a full week for Passover and Easter. (I admit all benefit from the fact that pre-calc does start in on a little bit of the AB curriculum, but they don’t drag it out over the whole year.) Most kids get 4s and 5s in BC Calc.</p>
<p>My son ended up ahead in math because he begged for more advanced math starting in first grade. It had nothing to do with looking at colleges, he just wanted to learn something new.</p>
<p>Has anyone considered that maybe kids don’t want to skip Calc AB and take BC instead? At my highschool the best math students were also the best athletes, the leaders of all the clubs, in the school plays,…you get the picture. NO ONE wanted to finish BC junior year. Then what? Try to commute to the CC and have to miss a half day of high school during your senior year? Most kids prefer to enjoy their senior year and participate in all the activities. What’s the rush? If they’re seriously that bored then they might also have some social issues.</p>
<p>I had a weird 1st grade experience with my younger son. He was in a class with a friend whose father was a math professor (and mom was an adjunct ). This was a public school and this kid’s parents actually had a volunteer come in and “tutor” their son in first grade to get him ahead in math. The teacher didn’t get it and neither did I. This was a very diverse school and volunteer efforts were better spent helping kids other than a kid with two math parents. I think this kid and family took away volunteer resources . Still don’t get it. The parents seemed so invested with being sure their son was labeled as gifted. My kid and this kid were but we did nothing to advance that. My son told me that the professor’s parents put him through computer math tests when he visted them . I was not happy, thought it was creepy and limited contact after that.</p>
If you like it and are good at it, then taking Calc in high school is a pleasure.</p>