<p>Here's the hypothetical scenario:
D is a HS athlete and goes to H Y and P Ivy camps this summer. As she's leaving H camp, the head coach pulls her aside, asks her for a commitment to H and tells her she is her number 1 choice and will support her with admissions. H is D's first choice, so she verbally accepts and shakes hands with H coach. Now D is in limbo until the H Likely Letter comes some time in October. What does the H coach expect D to tell Y and P? If D tells them she verbally accepted an offer from H, then Y and P will take their interest elsewhere. If D wants to protect herself against the chance that the Likely letter from H never comes (for whatever reason), she needs to keep communicating with Y and P, in which case she would be lying to them either outright or by omission.
What should D do?
And what would the H coach want or expect D to do?</p>
<p>In our experience with Ivy schools, no matter how good you are or how much the coach may want you after seeing you at a meet or at a camp you will still have to go on an official visit. Official visits are only offered after the coach has passes along your academic stats to admissions. There is no reason for them to pay for your official visit if your AI isn’t high enough. Get those unofficial test scores and hs transcript ready now. My daughter had all of her OV lined up by the end of July. Good luck! It’s an exciting and sometimes stressful time!</p>
<p>Great question and subject of some debate on these boards. Waiting is hard! It’s absolutely true that until you have something ( a LL) you have nothing, so some say to continue to hedge your bets and be honest with other coaches that you’re very interested still, but have verbaled elsewhere. For many people this has apparently worked, though it felt awkward to my D and her HS coach (whose brother is an Ivy coach in a different sport) so we took the trusting route and it worked out just fine, as it does for most, but by no means all students. </p>
<p>I take it your daughter is finishing junior year, you’ve figured out AI and that it’s absolutely in the ballpark? This makes things more likely. Has the coach been there a long time? The veterans know who is going to fly and who isn’t and they don’t waste their full support on marginal cases. Additionally, get the promise in writing: you are one of my top recruits, I will give you my full support with admissions and seek a LL for you this October. It’s pretty hard to go back on that unless the recruit screws up. If it gets out that a coach went back on a written promise, he/she will lose trust with future recruits. I’m sure you’ll get other opinions from different posters. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. Good luck.</p>
<p>Thanks, sidelines.
It’s difficult for a 17 year old (or even a parent of a 17 year old) to ask a coach to put what he just said in writing, particularly if you are looking for it to be worded a very specific way to provide you with some degree of comfort. It implies, at least, that there is not 100% trust.
My main concern is that as soon as the other coaches learn she has “verballed” elsewhere, they will move on and fill their positions with other recruits.
It’s similar to the situation where other coaches learn that a kid has gotten EA at HYP. The other coaches will move on. The likelihood of them landing that recruit is so small that they simply focus their efforts elsewhere.</p>
<p>
Our experience has been different. From what we’ve seen, if the coach has seen the prospect compete and spoken with them either at an unofficial visit or in a neutral location after July 1 following junior year, then official visits aren’t necessary. In the OP’s case, I think this would hold. If the coach likes the kid at the camp and wants to offer support that makes sense and an OV would seem superfluous.</p>
<p>My advice would be to press for the earliest possible LL from the 1st choice school while hedging the others.</p>
<p>We’ve found some that coaches can have institutional arrogance. I won’t identify beyond HYPS, but we heard a coach brag: “Other schools recruit; we select.” He wasn’t very friendly after DS made his own selection. Frankly telling a coach like that that his school is in a back up position wouldn’t work so well.</p>
<p>Our experience was that the coach offered the spot, my son accepted the spot, he provided unofficial transcripts, score reports and an essay. The coach ran it by admissions and got a green light. Son then had to do the official, formal application mailed in a tagged envelope and had official scores and transcripts sent. LL arrived a few weeks later.</p>
<p>During the 2-3 weeks when he had verbally committed, but had not been green-lighted he did not tell anyone he was committed, but didn’t lead them on either.</p>
<p>cnp55 - you were in the exact position I am referring to.</p>
<p>Did other coaches call during the 2-3 weeks you were waiting for the likely letter? What did your son say to them?</p>
<p>It would be helpful if you could put your experience in the context of some dates. My understanding is that LLs don’t come out until some time in October. Does that mean that the verbal was in September?</p>
<p>What sport does your son play? How was the offer made - by phone, after a visit, after a camp?</p>
<p>Thanks to all.</p>
<p>I’ll make an analogy. I own several Summer rental properties in a resort community. These properties are listed with many real estate agents who show the summer homes in the Winter and Spring. Very often we receive an offer and accept, but until the binder is in my hand, that property is not rented… not in any way, shape, or form.</p>
<p>Until she has a commitment from the school, there is no reason on Earth for her to turn off her other avenues. </p>
<p>She should have a talk with the H coach and share her concerns. She can tell the H coach her heart is with H and H is her number one, but until she is assured of a spot at H, she simply must pursue her other avenues.</p>
<p>When talking to the Y and P coaches, there is no lie… directly or by omission. She does not need to share that H is her first choice. First choices can change. My son’s first choice has changed four times already… and I expect it might change at least another time or two before the end of the Summer. He’s a tennis player and has B, C, and D interested in him, but they are not strong in his intended field of study. C is, but we didn’t like the area.</p>
<p>MyLuckyDog</p>
<p>Also remember that admissions admits…not the coach.
Your student must present an application, tests scores, official transcript, LOR etc to the school and admissions admits.
In our experience…the pre-read took place in July (unofficial transcripts, test scores, and resume), the OV in Sept (verbal commit) and the LL arrived in Oct after admissions had received a fully completed app (all essays etc)</p>
<p>Until the letter was in hand–k1 was was “in play” and apps for about half a doz schools were ready to go. K1 also applied to 2 safeties as backups.</p>
<p>Until your student has a piece of paper from admissions, they have nothing.</p>
<p>myluckydg – “in writing” was simply an email exchange between my D and the coach that outlined what the coach was offering along with the acknowledgement that waiting is really hard and the coach was available to talk anytime. It was not a guarantee and we did not take it as one. It offered us peace of mind and we were grateful for it. There are stories on this board about negotiations between athlete and coaches in the week that LLs can be sent out. In D’s sport that just doesn’t happen. Verbals are made during summer after 10th grade until summer after 11th grade, and those are the late ones. But every sport is different.</p>
<p>LuckyDog … men’s lacrosse at an ivy …</p>
<p>He made his verbal commitment at an unofficial visit with parents in early August, on maybe a Tuesday? By Friday the coach had all the paperwork he needed to take it to admissions. Two weeks later he got the call that admissions gave him the green light. Application in at ED deadline (kids!) and LL before Thanksgiving. Oh yeah … there was an official visit, but all the kids were committed and vetted by admissions before the OV.</p>
<p>The coach gave him some advice on how to handle the intervening period. First, he made sure that my son’s first choice was his school. Then, he posed certain situations, like … so what if Virginia offers you a full ride tomorrow … things like that. </p>
<p>Essentially, my son planned to say if Rival coach called looking for commitment that he would say he was very close to committing to First Choice school, not naming names, but would absolutely be interested in rival school if things didn’t work out. Rival can either say, we’d like you very much, but we need your decision now/in an hour/in 2 days/by September 1. </p>
<p>Your D should think hard about where she wants to be – academically, socially, financially, athletically – and have her choices lined up. After each contact, re-evaluate where the school stands with her. It’s all a dance as the coaches try to recruit the best athletes for their program and the students try to leverage their athletics into the best experience for themselves.</p>
<p>I don’t <em>think</em> she’ll be asked to commit on the spot. And remember, admissions admits. As a parent, I’d insist on a sit-down with the coach so that <em>I</em> could understand the process and the actual interest in my child.</p>
<p>cnp55 - thanks for the details.</p>
<p>Your reply highlights another issue that is discomforting - isn’t it dangerous for a recruit to apply EA/ED if they have not yet received the Likely Letter? </p>
<p>(Admittedly EA is less of a risk, but it still tells other coaches that another school is more preferable to theirs and their time may be better spent recruiting another player.)</p>
<p>In other words, if the LL comes after a recruit has already applied EA/ED, isn’t the value/purpose of the LL significantly diminished?</p>
<p>I think it would be a mistake to apply ED w/o a LL, since that would tie the applicant’s hands wrt other schools. Better, I think, to apply regular decision very early in the cycle and ask for an early LL with a promise to convert the application to ED when the LL comes.</p>
<p>Timeline something like this:</p>
<p>Aug. 15 - preread
Sept. 1 - submit RD app. w/ commitment to coach to convert when LL arrives
Oct. 1-15 - Recieve LL, convert to ED</p>
<p>If LL doesn’t come by Oct. 15 or so, then applicant is free to pursue other early options.</p>
<p>@Sherpa…That’s exactly what D did 2 years ago. worked out perfectly.</p>
<p>Can’t the coaches get you an LL before the ED/EA deadline?</p>
<p>Isn’t it reasonable to tell a coach you can’t apply ED/EA unless you have an LL in hand?</p>
<p>Thanks all for the great advice and shared experiences!</p>
<p>Sherpa: Do pre-reads ever happen earlier than Aug? And how does an athlete know if a pre-read is going on?</p>
<p>Jr was asked to send his transcripts and test scores. The Coach a few days later asked for his projected Sr class schedule…</p>
<p>Our student’s pre-read was in July.
Coaches staretd asking for transcripts fall of Jr yr…and they all wanted complete transcripts, projected schedule, test scores for SAT and SAT2s etc by June.</p>
<p>While there are stories of athletes giving a verbal early on in highschool–
please remember the NCAA rules and that admissions admits.
No matter what you read on chat boards.
I cannot say that strongly enough.</p>
<p>Thanks fogfog.
So would the Coach be asking for all of Jr’s info for a possible pre-read?
Sorry to ask so many questions :)</p>
<p>In our experience…the coaches asked for info during fall of our student’s Jr yr…and asked our stuent to take the SAT and SAT2s asap so that they could determine if k1 was in the pool so to speak. K1 sent updated packages with scores in June after the SAT2s etc
No sense in a coach following a kid’s athletic achievments only to find out they are not in the range.
The admissions has to do a pre-read with all of the info…though a coach worth his/her salt will know what will fly and what won’t…
The coaches told k1 that they had an appt with admissions for pre-reads for their list of potential recruits a certain week in July. </p>
<p>Also coaches say things like…“we think you would be a great fit…”
and that may be true yet student’s need to be careful to not read too much into the tea leaves </p>
<p>Without a piece of paper from admissions…the student has nothing.</p>
<p>When it came to getting the LL - Our student was offerred the LL and had to submit the full package via common app with supplements etc electronically. The letter wasn’t sent until admissions had a FULL app with all parts, LORs, etc.</p>
<p>One piece of advice for Jrs…go online and check out the common app and essays. Get started asap. It is worht having those essays written and ready. </p>
<p>ymmv</p>
<p>Agree that the verbal is not binding in any way - BUT OP said her daughter DID verbally commit to H and shake hands. I would be very honest about this with Y & P, because I’d be surprised if they don’t already know and to be perceived as even indirectly dishonest would likely hurt at this stage, with all 3 coaches.</p>