<p>I’m a bit concerned about her plans for the fall. Not all colleges allow students to come in the second semester, though some make use of that option to deal with summer and fall “melts” and to fill rooms left empty by study abroad students. Equally important, it is a bit harder to adjust when coming half-way into the academic year. It might be better for her to take the entire year off and take community colleges in the spring semester while continuing to work or to do community work. She could apply for admission now and request a gap year or else apply next fall.</p>
<p>Chicabuena, </p>
<p>If your daughter follows the path you outlined, it will be very, very difficult for her to be admitted to one of those small liberal arts schools. Those schools lose very few kids each year so the competition from transfer students is tremendous. I believe Harvard has also stopped taking transfers. There are college guides at the bookstore that say how many transfer students applied and how many were accepted and you should use that as a guideline. Oh, and one more thing: if financial aid is a consideration, many colleges do not meet full need for transfers even if they meet it for freshman. You need to call each school and find that out because they rarely advertise that little fact. </p>
<p>As far as how transferable credits are… many top colleges (especially lac) do not accept any dual enrollment credits. These colleges may also be stingy with AP credits. The easiest way for your daughter to preserve her credits is to work through the community college and find out with what schools it has articulation agreements. Chances are it has them with all of the public colleges in your state and it may also have them with private colleges, especially those in your area.</p>
<p>If you want her to compete for a top college and transfer admissions are limited, her best bet would be to apply now and, if accepted, request a gap year. That would give her the freedom to travel but I don’t know if they will accept any cc credits she takes. My understanding is that students may have to sign a statement promising not to enroll in another school during that year unless they have permission-- but I could be wrong; none of my kids did this.</p>
<p>The antics at your daughter’s school don’t sound any worse than the antics at my son’s. I don’t buy that any of the things you describe are responsible for her academic standing-- actually-- it seems like with so little competition she would be posting the top grades in the classes…
Which is not to say thay she isn’t capable of top work. But it is my observation that people who make excuses in one environment simpy find new excuses in a new environment. As you describe her, I still think there are significant maturity and interpersonal issues at work here. But I wish her luck in whatever she pursues.</p>
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<p>I agree with this. I can also tell you that I’m pretty sure my school (Wesleyan) won’t give a (non-transfer) credit for classes that are not approved BEFORE you take the class. You can also only earn two credits per summer. A transfer student would get credit towards graduation for most of their classes, although depending on where they got the credit, they might have to re-take some classes for a major.</p>
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<p>I’m a little concerned about this, at least for a lot of the schools already mentioned on this thread. At most college, even top ones without Greeks, even among the top students, there will be a fair amount of drinking and drug use. If the problem is only that she can’t find ANYONE who doesn’t do these things/shares her values, than I’m sure she’d be fine at most schools, as she’d be able to find like-minded friends. But if just being around this kind of thing/in a place where the majority of students drink/drug at least occasionally bothers her, than that will limit her search a lot.</p>
<p>“If you want her to compete for a top college and transfer admissions are limited, her best bet would be to apply now and, if accepted, request a gap year.” </p>
<p>I don’t think that’s her best bet. The D is just getting over \a difficult emotional experience in high school that included depression, some physical problems which the OP hasn’t specified, and painful experiences with her peers. Consequently, the D probably hasn’t had a chance to know herself well enough to know what kind of college she’d like to go to. </p>
<p>In addition, colleges may understandably be wary about admitting a student who so recently had grade problems due to social and mental health difficulties. Colleges that base admission on the whole individual, not just stats – and this includes top colleges-- also would want to assess carefully the maturity of any student who would be entering college early. Admissions officers know that college – particularly freshmen year – is stressful and includes challenges/opportunities that can lead to tragedy or academic failure in students who aren’t emotionally ready to be in such an environment.</p>
<p>Consequently, it would make sense for the D to take a gap year, probably by living at home while doing some kind of productive activity such as Americorps or being a fulltime volunteer for a local nonprofit or even by working fulltime on her own service organization.</p>
<p>She’d have the opportunity to make a thoughtful decision about what colleges to apply to, and she’d have even more of a chance to prove to admissions that that she’s ready for college. Her doing something productive during a gap year also would make her even more appealing to colleges. For instance, Harvard so believes in gap years that it offers all admitted freshmen the opportunity to take a gap year before starting college. That’s because it has found that students who have had gap years before college are more mature and focused in college.</p>
<p>As for the summer community college courses: I’m not sure why she would be taking them unless they’d allow her to graduate early. If so, that wouldn’t count against her college apps as many high school students dual enroll with community colleges and then go to college as regular freshmen.</p>
<p>If she doesn’t need the courses for graduation, she should check with colleges to find out whether she can take college courses during a gap year and still apply as a freshman. S asked this question before taking his gap year, and the colleges that interested told him that he’d be considered a transfer only if he took more than 4 college courses during the gap year.</p>
<p>OP - It appears the family has been “free spirit” while the daughter was growing up. I think now maybe is the time to sit down as a family to decide what is best for the daughter(not saying what you have done so far has not been the best for your daughter) and what she really wants out of life. It goes beyond just what college she wants to go to. What kind of life style does she want someday? Is she materialistic or is it not important to her? If she is (as she has enjoyed the kind of house or car you have provided for her, and allowed her to travel all over the world), how she is going to maintain that someday? Does she want to try to form some meaningful friendship with her peers in this country?</p>
<p>I ask those questions because what she does in the next few years will impact what happens later. She should make a decision whether she wants to apply this year or next year. As most people have mentioned it’s much easier to get into top schools as a freshman than as a transfer. Freshmen usually bond the first few weeks of school. If your daughter doesn’t want to feel like an outsider, she should start when everyone is new. As meaningful as her current project is, would it take her away from her college too much? If so, would it be better for her to put it on hold while she works on her academic and try to make some friends on campus someday. This would be no different if an accomplished dancer/singer/actor to stop his/her career while he/she is in college. I would plan out carefully on what she should do in the next year or two(tests, application, courses, college visits), so she’ll have as many options as possible when she is ready to go to college. Many things we can’t do over. Fabulous EC can’t compensate for lackluster stats.</p>
<p>I would just like to offer some personal advice to your daughter if I may. No one is perfect in this world, especially when they are young. Just because they do stupid things every once in a while, it doesn’t make them bad people or not worthy as friends. When she is making friends, don’t look for perfection because she’ll be disappointed. There is nothing wrong to have different types of friends - one maybe when she wants to talk about her project, another maybe when she wants to hang out to shop at a mall, another maybe when she wants to go to museums. They don’t all have to be interested in everything she is interested in. D1’s sees faults in many of her friends and she tries to interact with them on their better sides. D1 can be rather deep sometimes (many people may not see it often), she cares deeply about gender issues, but it’s not something she discusses with all her friends. I used to be a lot more judgemental, but I have found no matter how “awful” someone is, if you look deeply enough there is some redeeming quality in a person, on the flip side is if you look deeply enough you could always find some fault in a person also. If I am off base, my apology.</p>
<p>deirdre - your points are well taken. Same with Northstar’s. </p>
<p>I am dealing with this now with a young man - a close friend of the family - who is negatively reacting to the drinking and antics at my alma mater (a top 10 USNWR school with a good basketball team). I myself was not interested in drinking or partying and after about a year or so I realized that railing against it was distracting and that subconsciously complaining about it was a form of a crutch to keeping me from taking the emotional and academic risks to which I was truly capable. I was lucky to have a few professors who simply motivated me to be me and do good work. (The school is not a good place to be poor - to that I can attest - but nevertheless the educational opportunities are great and it makes no sense to make excuses to distract from grabbing those opportunities). In any event, my advice to this particularly young man is to recognize that drinking and partying (and yes, suburban values) are going to be present almost at any school and that simply being comfortable in one’s skin is the key. One can say no to drinking and partying calmly and simply, without a tone of moral superiority and without a sense of hostility. And I don’t buy the argument that an oppressive social situation inevitably leads to depression and the like - making one’s place in almost any environment is a key personal responsibility, and adopting a tone of moral superiority is frankly more often than not a crutch. More often than not, the problems can be addressed by looking in the mirror.</p>
<p>Northstarmom and Oldfort always offer great advice.</p>
<p>mam-- You put better than I did. I also agree with Northstar–that is a solid plan that allows for gradual growth and thoughtful choices.</p>
<p>As a parent of a really atypical kid, I think it is too easy for me to excuse my son’s shortcomings by citing a non ideal enviroment. The reality is that most High Schools are far from ideal. The poster’s daughter sounds like she has drive and the ability to focus, but also comes across as fragile and insecure in her self view.</p>
<p>Everyone is making good points, they can all be pieces of the puzzle. But it really sounds to me as if your daughter is on her own path, and should stick with it. I have friends whose son just graduated from our state flagship, at age 25. He kept taking a year off to bicycle across China, etc. His experience is leading him on into life and that’s how it should be. Smith has the Ada Comstock scholars-- older women going back for their BA’s-- your D might end up as one of them. Or she might find a specific program (not to harp on Georgetown) that really suits her–and my guess is that she will really suit them too. (This is, if you feel the depression is being properly addressed, understood and taken care of. But I’ll bet it is-- clearly the emotional troubles of the young women in the ladies room have not gotten proper attention!)</p>
<p>I think the poster who suggested Stanford as a possibility had a good idea. I would not rule out any of the top colleges, in this unusual circumstance. </p>
<p>As far as the dual enrollment goes, QMP’s college does not accept credits for any university courses taken pre-college, regardless. So with a full year of university course credits pre HS graduation, QMP still counted as a regular incoming freshman, not a transfer. Other colleges might have granted transfer credit for the courses. I think the situation would generally be the same with the OP’s daughter.</p>
<p>Looking at the full picture, I’d say that the OP’s daughter might be well served by colleges that have a particular reputation for hard-working, serious students. The University of Chicago, Reed, and Swarthmore come to mind. Other posters might suggest others. At many other schools, she could find like-minded students, but there would also be a number whose values would be alien to her (in all probability). </p>
<p>The problems that the OP mentioned with their local HS are a more serious version of the problems at our high school, also in an affluent region. I really sympathize. I don’t really understand the origin of these problems, but I doubt that they are limited to two such schools. I definitely appreciate that there are worse problems for other socioeconomic groups, but I think the situation in some of the affluent schools is actually a problem for the country.</p>
<p>I’m going to go back to Weskid’s point from a few pages back. This kid wants to get out of high school <em>right now</em>. Fine; for some kids, high school is a ghastly horror. But what I’m not hearing from the OP is that the kid is just dying to go to college. </p>
<p>The OP’s daughter would be young for college, and her troubles interacting with her peers suggest she might have some issues with social maturity. She’s bright, but she has a track record of “coasting” academically, though in the last couple of months she is turning that around; again, maturity has been an issue. If she were at college next year, and particularly if she were at an elite college, these issues would be magnified.</p>
<p>I don’t see next year as the optimal time for her to be a college freshman, with all the adjustment that would require. She has a passion-- why not pursue the passion full-time next year, waiting a year or two for college? An elite college could well be the right place for her, but not next year.</p>
<p>From the OP: thanks again. I thought the desire to learn (academics) was a given and didn’t need to be re-stated. </p>
<p>When daughter was 6 we had her tested for gifted and we found out that she is genius level. That worked for her–and against her (though she never knew her IQ). A serious student, by the time she hit junior high she was absolutely bored with the material.</p>
<p>What really changed her life was when she was out of school with a serious illness for 8 months. A tutor from the school came to our house for 3 hours per week. Daughter found she could cover the same material with the tutor (and a few hours of study time alone) that she would have spent learning for 35+ hours in the classroom. Unfortunately daughter also overheard the tutor telling me what a big “babysitting service” the public schools are and how all that material could be learned independently much more quickly than in a classroom setting. D begged us to homeschool her but we declined, saying that she needed social interaction. </p>
<p>Fast forward to high school. In the traditional classroom setting, with fellow Honors (!) and AP (!) students goofing off, bugging the teacher (as well as each other), gossiping among themselves about how high they got or with whom they are having sex, and my daughter’s thinking, huh? This is the big high school experience that I am supposed to be enamored with for the next few years of my life? She felt frustrated by her environment and sunk down low in her seat, began to withdraw. The situation seemed hopeless: how on earth could she survive 4 years of this nonsense? </p>
<p>But in her sophomore year, because of overcrowding and a scheduling error, she was assigned a few online (for credit) classes in the computer lab, and she discovered that she could whip the material and test all As in a quarter of the time she spent in a traditional classroom setting. She is a great writer so essays were a breeze. She much preferred this style of learning because she retains what she sees and the self-pacing is much faster. Then she learned that she could accelerate her curriculum and graduate ahead of time, she saw the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel and there was hope at last.</p>
<p>Our D is a not at all a social misfit: she is articulate, and that is why she has such success in her project and her relations with those adults in the NOGOs and Peace Corps. She also relates very well to her peers, but the social life of high school is not a big enticement, it is a distraction and discouraging. She prefers a more professional environment. Tell her what to do and when it’s due and let her perform on her own. That is why she prefers the company of older individuals. </p>
<p>I appreciate the leads onto schools that are more accepting of older/non-traditional/eclectic students as well urban and/or international schools. That will probably be the route daughter will take.</p>
<p>Many of the women’s colleges have programs for non-traditional (read “older”) students. I’d definitely check out Sarah Lawrence which emphasizes extensive one-on-one work with professors and is very close to New York.</p>
<p>That said, if she’s truly profoundly gifted, she might consider her last year of high school at the Davidson school.</p>
<p>[Davidson</a> Academy of Nevada - Reno, Nevada](<a href=“Davidson Academy: A School for Highly Gifted Students”>Davidson Academy: A School for Highly Gifted Students)</p>
<p>Please continue to consider a gap year for your D for the reasons I’ve mentioned earlier. My older S was a prodigy when it came to writing, and was a paid published writer – for major professional publications-- by the time he was in high school. He also was an editor for a local weekly paper. </p>
<p>He did wonderfully with adults, did an out of state internship while in high school, performing very well even though he was about 5 years younger than was the next younger intern.</p>
<p>Like your D, he wrote easily, enjoyed learning on his own, and disliked being around his high school peers, who seemed to have little in common with him and who made fun of S’s interests in his writing. </p>
<p>He went to college at age 17 (He also had skipped) and fell in with a much older crowd of students who liked to write and admired S’s writing and sophistication about that kind of business. For the first time,he was considered “cool” by his peers.</p>
<p>He also fell into partying with them – something H and I didn’t find out about until years later. Apparently, S was so happy to have friends that he copied their bad habits.</p>
<p>He found the academics unchallenging, didn’t bother to attend class, and ended up flunking out, something that didn’t bother him at all because he thought college was a waste of time.</p>
<p>He now is mid 20s, has an office job, lives on his own, and devotes his free time to studying independently (Doing things like trying to read all of the Great Books for fun) and writing a novel. But he has never returned to college.</p>
<p>IMO, he would have been more emotionally prepared for college if he had first done a gap year immersing himself in his writing interest. He would have had time to mature and to have selected a college that was intellectually a better fit for him than was the one that he chose. He basically had chosen his college by location, its sports team, its being reasonably good in what he thought he’d major in, and by the amount of $ they gave him. He also liked the fact that it had large classes “so professors won’t bother me.” </p>
<p>Despite being a very bright guy who had been very successful in his EC, he still was immature, and that immaturity prevented him from flourishing in college.</p>
<p>I don’t doubt that chica’s hijabuena is bright and wants to learn. But if she goes to college, she will be expected to go to class and do the homework, even when it’s boring. If she goes to a college that challenges her, she won’t be able to zip through her homework in fifteen minutes a day. She’ll have to work at it. This is an adjustment for a lot of college students, but I think it might be a particularly difficult one for hijabuena, since so far she has not, as far as the OP is disclosing, shown an ability to excell in a traditional class. And that’s what colleges have- traditional classes.</p>
<p>Chicabuena says, "In the traditional classroom setting, with fellow Honors (!) and AP (!) students goofing off, bugging the teacher (as well as each other), gossiping among themselves about how high they got or with whom they are having sex, and my daughter’s thinking, huh? " But this year’s Honors and AP students are next year’s freshman. If hijabuena is not making a connection with one single Honors or AP student this year, what will happen next year? She needs to pay strong attention to the student body of the school she ends up at, to make sure she will have a peer group that she can socialize with.</p>
<p>I have seen truly gifted kids for whom even the most challenging courses at college are still a breeze. I can not speak for the OP’s child, but for what it’s worth, I have seen time and again that not every student has to work hard at it.</p>
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<p>It seems like your daughter has an excellent plan, following a nontraditional path. She seems to have the independence of spirit and confidence to follow it. I am assuming from the fact that you have your daughter in a public high school (despite various problems related to fit), and her plans include working to earn money – that your family is of fairly modest means – so many of the private colleges which have been suggested on this thread may be out of your reach financially. (Yes, they do offer need based aid, but not all promise to meet 100% of need, and the college’s idea of meeting need might not be the same as the families).</p>
<p>I think with a daughter like yours you really need to back off and let her make her plans. She probably will not get a degree by a traditional, 4 year path – but it sounds to me like she is very independent natured and will not be expecting you to providing 100% of her financial support while she travels “throughout the world while continuing work on her project and meeting with NGO and Peace Corp groups.” During the time she is traveling and working and meeting, she will probably make connections that will help her focus on the best educational options for her future.</p>
<p>My guess is that her future probably involves a public university – they are just more flexible – and for a student who is not following a traditional path, often far more affordable. Its also possible that she will opt for a program like Americorps before continuing her education. </p>
<p>I am starting to get the idea that YOU are asking for support or help that your daughter might not feel that she wants or needs. That is… you are describing a very independent-minded and focused young lady with a plan… and you’ve come to CC to find out if there’s a way to make a square peg fit a round hole. (There isn’t).</p>
<p>I do think that, given your daughter’s emotional issues in the past, as a parent you need to be alert to signs of a relapse. But I don’t think you will help matters by trying to redirect your daughter toward a more traditional path. </p>
<p>It is TRUE that she is will shut the door on various educational opportunities by choices such as graduating early, accumulating a large number of community college credits before applying to college, etc. – but where one door shuts, another opens. </p>
<p>So basically, my suggestion is that you let your daughter continue to figure out her future educational plans on her own. There are literally hundreds of public colleges and universities where she will be able to get her degree when ready, many which are off the radar from CC. (One that I haven’t seen mentioned in other posts is Evergreen in Washington – the school basically has a 99% admit rate but has a pretty good reputation and definitely is an ideal place for an independent minded student who wants to structure her own education; Evergreen also has a record of very high involvement with the Peace Corps). </p>
<p>But the point is-- you probably are in the wrong place to get good advice for your daughter, even though you are in the right place to get excellent advice for other peoples’ kids.</p>
<p>Look at this nearly 100 posts! Your daughter obviously poses some interesting challenges. From my observation she fits the classic mold of an extremely gifted kid; passionate about healing the world, relating better to adults and not necessarily excelling in a traditional classroom. She also has the compounded experience of being gifted and seeing the world including the third world. Finally, following all of this she has also had to contend with serious illness which somehow reinforced that she is more comfortable as a solitary learner and moved into a HS environment which by your description is affluence at its worst. I agree with the post above that she needs to chart her course but parents have influence and want what is best for their kids. You also initially seemed to have some real concerns about her being accepted to a college that will fit her because of grades that don’t reflect her ability. From what I have read I expect that she will find that college and that she will be most comfortable in a strong academic community. Someone mentioned Pitzer and while I don’t know much about that school I do know that it is on Claremont Consortium campus that is filled with diverse intellectual talent. It also has a rep for a school focusede on social justice. It could be a great fit.</p>
<p>Several posters have suggested a gap year and from what I have read both about her interests and issues that does sound like a good idea even if she gets admitted to a college now and defers that admission. It sounds like one thing your daughter has not mastered, possibly because of lack of opportunity, possibly because of being out of school for 8 months and possibly because she has felt like a square peg in her HS, is the ability to relate to an ordinary peer group and enjoy their company and to see the best in them. Going to college away from home is a huge transition and being comfortable with oneself and the surrounding peer group is key to making a good adjustment. I think it would be great for her to take on an interest in that might involve her getting to establish friendships with a peergroup while still at home What she chose could be anything from a local charity to a dance class as long as she loved it. It just sounds like she has missed out on the experience of enjoying the company of regular peers and that this may be a missing link in her life. Since she didn’t want to start college right away this is something that can be incorporated in her other plans. It sounds like she is a wonderful young woman but also fragile in many ways. Not to condone her HS environment but sometimes when one does not feel like they fit in it is easier to see then negative aspects of the people around them and miss the positives. It sounds like the ship for HS has already sailed but maybe after HS she can find real friends among her peers and if she does transitioning to college might be happier.</p>
<p>Forgive me if I am misinterpreting but much of this came from your statement ,“she had a difficult time adjusting to mainstream life among her suburban peers. She has always had a unique way of looking at life and shunned the status quo of white-affluence in order to pursue a dream she has had for years.” She can pursue her dream and still find the good in her mainstream suburban community even if it is the last place she wants to spend her life. She will probably be a happier if she does. It sounds like her worldly experiences may be intimidating to her peers and that at least some of them might be fascinated by her work if she accepted them.</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang…I love the “hijabuena” nickname…lol!</p>