What do you do with an "odd" child w/unique extra-curricular background?

Parents Forum
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<p>I’m confused, Chicabuena–In an early post you described your daughter as 'ostracized" by her peers with a history of depression deep enough to require a year of medication. Now you describe her a socially well adjusted and merely bored with her peer group.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that college classes will be that interesting. My son, a freshman, is struggling with that now (he walked into college with 70ish credits from self studied APs, 1 hs AP and a HS IB diploma). Good luck with whatever path your daughter chooses.</p>

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<p>“But in her sophomore year, because of overcrowding and a scheduling error, she was assigned a few online (for credit) classes in the computer lab, and she discovered that she could whip the material and test all As in a quarter of the time she spent in a traditional classroom setting. She is a great writer so essays were a breeze. She much preferred this style of learning because she retains what she sees and the self-pacing is much faster. Then she learned that she could accelerate her curriculum and graduate ahead of time, she saw the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel and there was hope at last.”</p>

<p>Given that she learns so well from online classes, many I once again recommend that she not apply to college until she has taken the equivalent of 4 years of the most rigorous classes her HS offers- but take her 4th year online with a reputable advanced HS program like EPGY at Stanford, which was originally developed to offer accelerated classes for gifted learners. Stanford also offers college credit for EPGY classes, if the student is later accepted at Stanford U as a freshman.
Have you or your D looked at the her HG school profile that is sent to colleges with GC letters of recommendation and student transcripts?
Has her GC has said that he will be able to state in his letter of recommendation that she has taken the most rigorous course load offered by her HS in the 3 years she attended? If not, then if she wants to “aim high”, she needs to strenghten her level of academic preparation for college. She will have a far better chance of acceptance at type of college that can truly challenge her, and offer her a cohert of equally capable, committed fellow students, if she has the strongest HS transcript possible.</p>

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<p>chicabuena, your daughter reminds me of kids we know in the mid-Atlantic Young Friends (Quaker) communities. These kids tend to be politically liberal, involved in community service from a young age, and have alternative/progressive tastes in clothes and music (minus the tats and piercings.) On the other hand they tend to be more conservative than their peers with respect to smoking, drugs, alchohol, cars and other material possessions. Quaker families are very keen on education, but also tend to encourage their kids to question authority. So these kids may be quite intellectual, but also very social, and not above blowing off assignments they consider pointless. So the high score, modest GPA scenario is not unfamiliar.</p>

<p>As family circumstances change, kids may move from warm-fuzzy home school or Friends School environments into the public schools. This can be like a leap into deep, cold water. Often they are out of sync with any of the major tribes (the hippie stoners, the introverted geeks, towel-snapping jocks, or mainstream Christian conservatives.) This can lead to emotional crisis in middle or high school as they try to reconcile seemingly incompatible values. Such as a strong desire to learn, without wanting to look like the teacher’s pet; interest in sports without the take-no-prisoners jock mentality; abstinence from drugs, cigarettes and alcohol, without seeming priggish or authoritarian. The Quaker ideal is to “let your lives speak”, not to evangelize. Within Friends youth organizations and schools there is a lot of emotional support for these values (such as balancing personal modesty with a commitment to excellence and community leadership) but it can be hard to find that support elsewhere. Yet it is important not to romanticize or make excuses for your kids’ shortcomings.</p>

<p>It seems that among these kids, popular colleges include (in roughly high-to-low order):</p>

<ul>
<li>traditional Quaker schools (especially Earlham and Guilford, with the Philadelphia schools considered somewhat “FINO” - “Friends in Name Only”)</li>
<li>other small liberal arts colleges, especially schools with progressive traditions/culture (Oberlin, Macalester)</li>
<li>Ivies (especially Brown) and other top private unis (Chicago)</li>
<li>state universities in liberal/progressive parts of the country (University of Vermont, Oregon).</li>
</ul>

<p>My youngest is not unlike your D in some respects. He seems to have found his piece of heaven at a small liberal arts college, where he hopes to graduate in 3 years and get on with adult life.</p>

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<p>tk–your description much fit my D, though we are not Quaker (though Quaker-friendly.) Quite liberal politically, into alternative/progressive music, love of learning for its own sake, quirky dresser, personally conservative. She did okay socially in the local HS, having a few kindred friends, but in an Honors program at an OOS U, she found the kind of atmosphere you and the OP describe, where she didn’t fit at all. However, when she transfered to an LAC along the lines that you suggest(in her case, Wes) she found her people and had an extraordinarily enriching experience.</p>

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<p>I haven’t read through each post but am interested in the flood of responses was prompted by the narrative of a kid many of us seem to recognize as like our own or one we know. I agree that she would thrive at one of many LACs and expect that, since “ranking” would not seem to be a dominant value in how she would choose, she could safely not prolong h.s. or take a gap year and just look broadly for schools that have the kind of community she would thrive in. She will know by her own “feel” I bet and should probably focus on where she wants to be (a new part of the country, rural vs. urgan, close to home, or where her dominant e-c would have new opportunities?) Schools like Whitman, Earlham, Hendrix, Berea, Beloit, Evergreen, maybe George Fox all have aspects that might light her fire (or fan the “light within”)…I definitely would not say this kid is “odd” and would say she is interesting…and many adcoms would be eager to know her better.</p>

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<p>I’m a little biased here, but I would definitely have your daughter look at Smith or another one of the seven sisters. Smith is the only one I’m really familiar with, and it’s tight-knit community would be great support for her. It’s a small school, but the biggest of the seven sisters so has a good variety of students, including a varied international student population. Her grades don’t put her out of the running for Smith (3.5 won’t put her on the high end of applicants, but it won’t kill her either), and her extra-currics definitely will make her stand out in a huge way. </p>

<p>Having a knowledge of world cultures and travel was hugely valued when I was a student at Smith. Smith has great study abroad programs, with a little over half of the junior class choosing to go abroad for at least a semester. Smith has some unique international opportunities. It has a close relationship with the Central Institute of Higher Tibetan Studies, so close that the Dalai Lama came and spoke at Smith during my sophomore year. There’s also a program for first-years called Kyoto Between Two Cultures, where students study Japanese culture all fall and then travel to Kyoto for a study trip during January term. </p>

<p>It’s also has one of the highest acceptance rates for Fulbright fellowships in the nation, so if your D wants to get funding to continue her international work once she graduates, there’s a very good chance she will be able to do that. Also, many students go on to do service work, such as peace corps, teach for america, missisppi teach core. </p>

<p>Smith is more structured than a college like Reed or Hampshire, but for the self-directed student there are a lot of opportunities to customize your education to your needs. You can create a special studies class with a professor (essentially a course or project you design yourself and a prof supervises), select to do a senior thesis (definitely sounds like something your D would love), and even design your own major. You can draw on the resources of the five-college community too, taking classes at Hampshire, Mt. Holyoke, UMASS or Amherst college for free. So she could take some of the less structured classes at Hampshire, but be able to come home to Smith at the end of the day. </p>

<p>And Smith is a good home to return to. The unique housing system creates close-knit communities of women that really care deeply about each other, and the absence of the male presence I found cuts way down on cattiness, pettiness, and gossip that your D may find prevalent in her high school community. and the campus itself is in a New England setting, but in the middle of downtown Northampton, a cute, funky town with great and diverse restaurants, good music scene, fun shopping. </p>

<p>Happy to talk more about Smith if you want to PM, but strongly think your D should consider it.</p>

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<p>A minor quibble, not about Smith but about the characterization of Reed and Hampshire in the same sentence: I think the latter are two very different places. Reed has at least one required “core” sequence (Huamanities 110) emphasizing classics of western literature, philosophy, history. Reed has oral comprehensives at the end of year 3, which can cover material taken in any classes during the preceding 3 years. Then (assuming you advance past the orals) there is a demanding senior thesis requirement. All this adds up, it seems to me, to a fair amount of “structure”. More than at Hampshire, maybe more than at Smith (depending on how you define “structure” I suppose.) Reed has one of the lowest graduation rates of any top LAC (in the 70s if I’m not mistaken), grade deflation, and is generally considered quite intense.</p>

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<p>[Reed</a> College Admission Office](<a href=“http://www.reed.edu/apply/news_and_articles/reed_paradoxes.html]Reed”>http://www.reed.edu/apply/news_and_articles/reed_paradoxes.html):

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<p>I know a young woman at Smith now who has been working in Africa and is structuring her education around her plans to go back-- she loves it.</p>

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<p>Smith is an a outstanding school and definitely one she should consider…</p>

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<p>Firstly, I get the whole dis-enchantment that can be experienced in the AP classes where kids goof around, heavy drinking/drug use, etc. Our daughter attends one of the most highly rated high schools in the NY metro area and she is one of a few that doesn’t drink. She’s smart but not driven for a grade like many of the high achievers in her school (many go to HYPS every year. In 2009 out of class of 350, 9 to Cornell, 3 to Princeton, 5 to Yale, etc). Her approach to college selection has deviated heavily from what her classmates are seeking. So with that, a few observations:</p>

<p>The likes of Haverford, Swarthmore, Reed, etc are great schools, but they are highly competitive, gpa conscious, schools. Not only in terms of admissions, but the ethos of the college experience. You daughter sounds committed but not in a traditional academic way so these schools don’t seem like a fit. Also Reed was dropped from our daughter’s list for this reason.</p>

<p>The large state schools are probably not going to give your daughter the enrichment she is seeking.</p>

<p>Schools outside the US: Careful with this one. Very few take a liberal arts approach and most are not the nurturing environment that is assumed with LAC’s in the US. That said, SOAS in the UK might be interesting in that they have a developmental studies degree. If your daughter has enough credits to equate to 1 year of college it should be equiv to entry for local kids taking their A-Levels. Otherwise she’d have to have 3-4 AP’s at the 555 or 455 level. </p>

<p>Back to the US. I too second Earlham. We visited and it has a very inclusive vibe. It was also the only school we’ve visited where when they say drinking isn’t such a huge part of campus life you believe them. The Quaker belief of tolerance and peaceful debate seems to be a good match for your daughter. Another school she may want to look at is New College of Florida. There are no grades and students are responsible, along with their advisors for formuating their own study plans. There are large blocks of time dedicated to independent study and research that would seem to fit nicely with your daughter’s interests. It would also provide an environment where she can study what she wants without being a grade monger. This school does seem to have a reputation having free spirited students and I’d probably venture that more than a few drink and smoke, but at the same time, I don’t get the feeling that kids are some how made to feel odd or out of place if they don’t.</p>

<p>As a side note, your daughter may want to read the blog below about a young woman who delayed college to start a home for orpahns in Nepal. It is pretty cool stuff what young people can accomplish. If anything it may give your daughter inspiration and comfort. (btw-i have no connection or vested interest in blink now. I actually found out about the organisation when she was profiled in a local paper nearby where we live)</p>

<p>[Kopila</a> Valley Children’s Home - Surkhet, Nepal](<a href=“http://blinknow.org/]Kopila”>http://blinknow.org/)</p>

<p>Best Wishes</p>

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<p>“The likes of Haverford, Swarthmore, Reed, etc are great schools, but they are highly competitive, gpa conscious, schools. Not only in terms of admissions, but the ethos of the college experience.”</p>

<p>For Reed, I strongly disagree. For admissions, GPA+SAT/ACT+rank together count for only 20% of admission criteria. For ethos, it would be hard to find a school less competitive among fellow students and less GPA conscious (students must ask to see grades, and the culture is to not ask).</p>

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<p>If you are saying that these schools are academically demanding, then I would agree, but Swarthmore is anything but a “GPA conscious” school for its students. The first semester is entirely pass fail for all students, specfically to break the stranglehold connection between learning and GPA. It is strictly taboo to discuss grades. It’s just not done. Also, the word “competitive” might be misconstrued. Again, the learing environment is the opposite of “competitive” between students. It is instead highly collaborative with students being encouraged to help each other learn, both formally and informally.</p>

<p>So to say that highly competitive, GPA conscious is the ethos of the college experience is not accurate. Studying hard is a part of the ethos of the college experience.</p>

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<p>I strongly disagree with this too, specifically wrt Swarthmore. The ethos of the Swarthmore experience is neither GPA conscious nor competitive.</p>

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<p>when i say competitive probably should have rephrased it to be intense…Swarthmore and the likes are only “not competitive” relative to themselves. These are intense schools academically and hardly a place for a child who has taken a different path and may find things difficult when surrounded by kids who are on top of their game in every respect… but hey let’s all disregard the suggestions i had and pick on semantics. what i should have said was…most at these schools (Reed, Swarthmore, etc) had very high gpa’s coming into the school (or at least the capability for high gpa’s given the right environment) and have spent years operating at a very different level then your average kid and the reason why the gpa’s are not that important is because they are all fully capable of functioning academically to the highest degree. If they weren’t they wouldn’t be there in the first place and or they leave…</p>

<p>It just irratates me that people bandy about these intense schools as appropriate for kids without recognising the damage these schools can do if you’re not one of the students who operate at that level…not simply in one area but in all areas…these are the kids that take 6,7,8 or more AP’s, plus are national or international level athletes, plus are national level competitors in debate or music performance or mathematics/science plus have done independent research and won prestigious awards or won art competitions plus are articulate, well spoken, and test well. These kids operate at that level just to get in…so while it makes sense that maybe gpa’s aren’t a big focus its simply because they don’t need to be… doesn’t sound to me like the best place for the OP’s daughter but what do i know</p>

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<p>“Back to the US. I too second Earlham. We visited and it has a very inclusive vibe. It was also the only school we’ve visited where when they say drinking isn’t such a huge part of campus life you believe them.”</p>

<p>Younger S, a nonpartier, visited it, and said the students were passive and boring. He also said the town was dead.</p>

<p>I know some recent alum and would describe them the same way S described the Earlham students. They are nice, young people, but if one wants to be around people who are intense, proactive and passionate, that’s not how those students are. From what the OP has said about her D, her D probably is more intense, proactive and passionate than are Earlham students, and may find the Earlham students too low key and sheltered for her tastes.</p>

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<p>tpirrie: I think what you said about the de-emphasis on grades is a little inaccurate. It’s not that grades matter less at Swarthmore because students will do well academically anyways. The point is so that people don’t stress out over the actual letter grade as much and don’t feel the need to compare with other people’s grades. Grades still matter at Swarthmore, and people want high marks. They’ll generally spend more time on something that’s worth 25% of the grade than they would on something that’s 10%. But I do agree that it’s important for students to have a strong academic background before they apply to places where academics are really, really important.</p>

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<p>Thanks Dchow08. You’ve captured what I was trying to say far more eloquently than I did.</p>

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<p>Franklin University Switzerland an American LAC</p>

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<p>Opp’s College not university</p>