What education does it take to be a lawyer?

<p>DD dropped a bombshell last night, ?I really do not like Chemistry, and BTW, I am getting a B in AP Physics?. In other words, there will be no medical school or any type of engineering professions for her. </p>

<p>What is left for a career? What about lawyer?</p>

<p>Is there such a thing as Pre-law like pre-med? After undergraduate, how many years one typically take to get a JD? Please suggest a couple good schools for a law degree. IMHO, it is much more important to get a name school for a low degree.</p>

<p>No such thing as "pre-law". Requirements for law school: LSAT Exam. Any major, add GPA+LSAT Score. Law School 3 years. Law Schools are ranked like all other schools.
<a href="http://www.lsac.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.lsac.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>note: B in physics does not eliminate one from medical school.</p>

<p>If I were your daughter, I would certainly not rule out engineering or medicine at this time, as a junior in high school, on the basis of the events described in your post.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What is left for a career?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>imo, what is left is for her to take her time and to gravitate to whatever interests her and makes her happy. </p>

<p>She will be able to figure it out.</p>

<p>There are millions and millions of careers out there. Not all of them require professional school.</p>

<p>I might have not explained it clearly. Getting a B in anything does not eliminate any options. The thing is that she does not like it so much that she is allowing herself to get a B. Like most of CCers, DD has never gotten a B in her quaterly report let alone final report in any subject in all her years of schooling. </p>

<p>May be she is at the "burnout" stage with 5 AP and tons of EC. BTW, school is doing class registration for senior year now and she does not want to take as many AP as she planned.</p>

<p>Don't go by what people on CC say !</p>

<p>There is no reason that a B in AP Physics will keep anyone from a career in science. That's a good grade.</p>

<p>There are 1.1 million lawyers in the US (I'm one of them). You can major in dance or fashion or history, it doesn't matter. Writing helps.</p>

<p>Can anyone tell me what "DD" means? Is there a key to the abbreviations somewhere?</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=52585%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=52585&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Cripes--the kid is what 15? 16? Why should she have any idea what she wants to do when she grows up? Too many kids take too many APs. You don't win life by having the most APs. You win by being a hard worker, taking advantage of your opportunities, being reliable, and being a decent person.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Don't panic. My son is getting a B in AP Physics C, too. In part, that's because the class has 11 people in it, and the lowest class rank anyone in the class has is 17 (out of 550). He's in the middle of a very strong group. No one has suggested that it means he can't think about medical school. (He's not interested in engineering.) Have you ever looked at the physics questions on the MCAT? It doesn't require more knowledge than high school AP Physics C. She has four years to nail it. And, as for engineering, I am pretty confident that if form holds my son's high school class will produce at least 20 engineers, only one of whom is currently getting an A in AP Physics C.</p></li>
<li><p>Some schools have "pre-law" majors, but not the elites. Really, any major is adequate preparation for law school. The most common are probably economics, history, political science, but anything would work. Certainly law schools look for people with a scientific or engineering background, and math majors are prized, too. Strong writing ability is important, and most students come out of majors with a lot of writing, but even math/science kids can easily find ways to demonstrate their writing ability.</p></li>
<li><p>All accredited law schools have a 3-year, full-time curriculum. Although many kids go directly for college to law school, over the past 20-30 years it has been increasingly common for law schools to value real-world experience or graduate-level study in another field. This is especially true at the elite schools. Yale takes very few kids right out of college. To some extent, though, this has been a market-driven trend. As the academic job market got very tight in the late 70s - early 80s, lots of great grad students and junior faculty wound up switching to law, and the tech bubble collapse of 2001 made a whole lot of techies with meaningful real world experience available.</p></li>
<li><p>If your ambition is to work for a large (or elite) firm in a big city, to teach, or to do high-level federal government work, there is a fairly well-defined hierarchy of national law schools -- the prestige ladder is much stricter than with colleges or medical schools. Every particular region or urban market also has a hierarchy of regional schools whose credentials are more or less respected in that market area. And none of that matters much if you want to be a plaintiff's lawyer -- which can be the most lucrative part of the profession for those who are successful at it -- or a prosecutor or defense lawyer for run-of-the-mill criminal cases. Any ABA accredited school anywhere will qualify any student to take any state's bar exam, and some states -- notably California -- do not even require a degree from an accredited school. </p></li>
<li><p>The national-school prestige hierarchy looks something like this: Yale (but Yale hardly matters because it's so small and quirky, and comparatively few of its graduates actually practice law), Harvard, Stanford, Michigan-Virginia-Columbia-Chicago-Penn. Then there is a set of schools with very good national reputations but whose graduates tend to cluster -- Boalt (Berkeley), Georgetown-NYU, Duke -- a bunch of semi-national private schools (Cornell, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Emory, Northwestern, Notre Dame) and good state schools (Texas, UCLA, Wisconsin). I'm sure I'm forgetting some. After that it gets pretty regional. As always, within a particular market the hierarchy may look a little different: In Chicago, for example, Northwestern is probably considered the equal of any school below the top 3, and the same is true for UCLA in Los Angeles. And a college classmate of mine was devastated when he didn't get into Texas and had to go to Harvard instead, because he thought he'd never be able to be a mover-and-shaker in his home state with no UT degree (he was wrong).</p></li>
</ol>

<p>The schools are of very different sizes, by the way. Harvard and Georgetown (the largest) have classes of around 600, Yale and Stanford (the smallest) have classes of around 170. One could make the argument that Harvard is the only true national law school -- there are Harvard lawyers everywhere.</p>

<p>First of all, relax, dad and take a step back. </p>

<p>A "B" in any high school course certainly does not preclude ANYONE from succeeding in ANY field. And what's this stuff about "What is left for a career?" Doesn't your DAUGHTER get to decide what she wants to do?</p>

<p>I'm all for encouraging our kids to be the best that they can be; I've got two teenagers myself. But, intentionally or not, with an attitude of "nothing less than straight A's will do", you're really putting a lot of pressure on her that she simply doesn't need.</p>

<p>Your daughter will do fine, she'll get into a great college, and she'll figure it all out. She's lucky to have such a caring parent.</p>

<p>I'm also a lawyer. I won't repeat the excellent advice already given. The only thing I would add is that I would NOT recommend going directly from college to law school. My classmates that did the best (Law Review, etc.) were the ones that worked a few years before they returned to the classroom. I think that the added maturity and life experience made a huge difference in how they approached their classes.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

<p>^^^</p>

<p>Excellent post.</p>

<p>Addendum: It sounds like she's putting a lot of pressure on herself. I have one of those kids too. It's important that you stress EFFORT and love of learning, so she realizes that Mom and Dad will still think she's fantastic even if (horrors!) she gets a "B" in anything. 5 APs in a year will kill you. Something has to give next year - either fewer APs or less ECs?</p>

<p>I realize I sounded kinda harsh earlier, but you keep focusing on "name" schools or nothing. "Name" can be good, but please focus on "fit" more when she actually starts applying to schools and making the ultimate decision this time next year. Again, I'm sure she'll figure it all out.</p>

<p>Well said ColoradoMomof2!
Laserbrother - I would say you should count yourself lucky if D is able to say what she likes and doesn't like while in HIGH SCHOOL! A wise person once told me that you don't have to know what you want to major in in college, you only have to know 4 things -</p>

<ol>
<li>What you are good at</li>
<li>What you are not good at</li>
<li>What you love </li>
<li>and what you do not like</li>
</ol>

<p>Sounds like what you are saying is that you D is saying loud and clear that she DOES NOT LIKE PHYSICS. So what! </p>

<p>Our college junior D came home mid-sophomore year and said she was miserable on her premed track. She had a 4.0 at that point, but was definitely not happy. We asked her what in her short 19 years had given her great joy - she replied that she knew it sounded stupid, but really liked chairing our city-wide canned food drive (which she did for 3 years at the age of 15, 16, & 17). You think, OH BOY! But when you delve deeper, what did she really love about that experience? She LOVED meeting with companies and corporations, getting them onboard to donate funds and do in-house collections. She LOVED meeting with a local foundation and convincing them to match any monetary donations given. She LOVED getting her classmates excited about the project, thus increasing donations. And you know what, she was GOOD at it! So, long story short, the premed track was changed to a communications major and she has been happy ever since. She is the star of the communications program at her large State U, was accepted for a great internship this summer (listed as one of the top ten internships by Princeton Review), and most importantly, happy. It has taken my physician husband some time to adjust (he still periodically says, D would have been SUCH a good doctor!). But in the end, it is her life and she has to do what will provide her joy and fulfillment, whether you like it or not. </p>

<p>By the way, in our never ending quest to make a "professional" out of her, we too suggested law school. She seemed interested at first, met with some people in the law school at her U, etc. Then one day when we brought up the subject, she simpy said, I don't think I want to do that right now. Again, our dream, not hers.</p>

<p>Forgot to mention AP courses. Our HS senior D attends a very mediocre, noncompetitive rural HS (only one in our town) that only offers TWO AP courses. D only took one because the other is so bad, she didn't see the point. D is a NMF, and has been accepted to two schools offering four year free rides (not big name schools-second tier) and another top 20 school (and recognized as being in the top 15% of their acceptees by the admissions department by this school). She is still waiting to hear from her last school, a top 10. Lack of APs hasn't hurt her in college acceptances or testing. </p>

<p>Also as far as ECs go, she was not a joiner in "everything under the sun". We told her to follow her heart and join only things she was really interested in. Life is too short to join clubs because they might look good on a college application. This has resulted in a happy child and an incredibly unique EC resume.</p>

<p>Looks like I got some more explaining to do.</p>

<p>DD has been a good student with excellent Math and language skills. We talked a lot of what she would like to do in HER life. I told her many times that it is HER life and we could only provide references and consultations. I told her that when I graduated from college at 20 year of age, I had not idea what career and life goals, so she should take her time to explore. For a period of time, she seemed to like biology (after a 5 in AP bio) and medicine. This year (junior), she is taking advanced Chem and AP physics. </p>

<p>Last night on dinner table, she announced she will get a B in physics in her quarterly report because she really does not like it. Further more, she declared that she does not like chemistry either and will drop AP Chem from her class selection for next year. </p>

<p>We talked about it like, if you don’t like chemistry, you will have a hard time passing the organic chemistry which is required for medical school and all bio related majors. What other subjects do you think you might like? </p>

<p>That is the root for this thread. </p>

<p>MP, I agree with you 100% and wish I could put down a story as nicely as you could.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What is left for a career? What about lawyer?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is almost funny. Glad to see you clarified this statement above. Maybe your kid can look at her strengths and explore career options that she would be happy and successful in. </p>

<p>The following website might be helpful for you both:
<a href="http://www.bls.gov/oco/home.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bls.gov/oco/home.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Click on "management" and "professional" on the right.</p>

<p>Moodmaid. What is so funny. As far as I know, there are four careers - doctors, lawyers, bankers, and scientists.</p>

<p>Does everyone remember the old Lily Tomlin joke: "I wonder what it would be like if we all became what we wanted to be when we grew up. I mean, imagine a world filled with nothing but firemen, cowboys, nurses and ballerinas." </p>

<p>On CC, this would be a world full of physicians, more physicians, research scientists, engineers, lawyers, and physicians. And don't forget physicians. :)</p>

<p>"As far as I know, there are four careers - doctors, lawyers, bankers, and scientists."</p>

<p>So much to say about this, so little time . . . </p>

<p>I sincerely hope you are not serious when you say this, but I get the sinking feeling that you are.</p>

<p>Geez, I hope she's joking too. Depressing if not!</p>

<p>I'm a writer. My husband is an executive chef. Where do we fit in within that professional universe? Slaves to the careerists? Jeez, I hope not!</p>

<p>My next door neighbor is a record producer. His wife is an actress.
Across the street is a custom carpenter. His wife is a non-profit director. My other next door neighbor is a professional artist. His wife runs a contracting business. 2 houses down is a successful singer/songwriter. Her husband is a homebuilder. Two young high school teachers down the street, with masters degrees. A newspaper art director, and a retired government official too.</p>

<p>Come to think of it. there is a dearth of doctors, lawyers, bankers and scientists on this street. Why then, is this little town considered one of the most desirable places to live in the northeast? Something to think about...</p>

<p>Let's see.</p>

<p>The adults in my family have included an editor, an accountant, a hotel manager, an industrial engineer, a music teacher, a computer scientist, an administrator at a nonprofit organization, and a guy with a doctorate in math who does some sort of obscure and incomprehensible work for a government agency.</p>

<p>And one lawyer.</p>

<p>There are lots of choices and possibilities out there.</p>