<p>Abiriba, in my view, the tone of your postings and your choice of words make ThacherParent’s point quite effectively.</p>
<p>Slim Slicker: I respect your opinion and point of view … similar to school choice and preference.</p>
<p>There’s truth in abiriba’s words. I don’t know why some people on this board get so defensive when an alternative perspective is expounded. Just because a point of view is slightly controversial and incongruous to what CC parents deem a laudable approach to BS selection doesn’t mean it fails to reflect the pragmatic contingencies pertaining to the process. </p>
<p>I also agree that cultural differences between BS are not at all substantial and often exaggerated. Visit ANY BS of whatever size/prestige, and you’ll always find at least a few students/alums touting their school for being warm, caring, supportive, challenging but non-cutthroat, etc. i.e. characteristics that are too often perceived as idiosyncrasies unique only to the Hidden Gems. Also, Benley nailed it. The values the schools are trying to instill in their students are indeed similar. But the average QUALITY of the students is going to differ from one “tier” of schools to the next. And that’s what defines a “top” boarding school. </p>
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<p>Unless someone could provide a limpid delineation of what cultures of different schools comprise and how they drastically differ from one another, and have it corroborated by multiple observations from the schools’ insiders, I’m still not convinced that such a radical distinction exists.</p>
<p>I mean, just because a school has a higher drug record than another doesn’t mean school A has a culture of everyone being a pothead.</p>
<p>A “limpid delineation.” LOL This isn’t some some sort of triple blind drug trial for God’s sake. I don’t need an article in The Lancet to know that there are big cultural differences among top boarding schools; open eyes will do just fine. Why wouldn’t a higher incidence of drug use, depression, cheating and attrition tell you just as much about the culture of a school as a higher incidence of excellent performance on AP’s or college matriculation tell you about its academics?</p>
<p>+1 to PhotographerMom, SlimSlicker, ThacherParent, and Choosingwisely.</p>
<p>@Slim Slicker: if you’re going to avoid the question, don’t answer at all, maybe. You’re implying certain cultures of depression/drug/cheating/attrition are specific to certain schools.</p>
<p>Every school has its fair share of caring peers, athletes, mathletes, wealthy kids, disadvantaged kids, morons, bigots, musicians, homosexuals, tryhards, suckups, potheads. Which depends on the individual students. I don’t think any schools on here have a reputation of admitting suicidos and druggos to groom a culture of misanthropic maniacs and heroin dealers. Challenge me if you disagree.</p>
<p>I would say, again, of the schools mentioned on here, some of the few things that vary from one tier of school to another are the quality of students (which doesn’t necessarily equal academics) and technological/sport facilities. Whether one wants to be surrounded by already highly accomplished kids or by “more normal” teenagers could be the pseudopsychological question of “fit” we’re looking for.</p>
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You gotta do better than that when you make an allegation like that. What historical statistically significant differences have you observed? What actions did the school admistration take in these situations that make you believe “drugs, cheating, depression,” part of the culture of the school community? </p>
<p>Anecdotes or isolated incidences don’t mean much. Over the year, the top schools have had their shares of such incidents and they have been highly publicized. Other schools have too. Search for SAS on this forum, and read Princess’Dad’s posts on Thacher. At the end of the day, people want to believe what they want to believe so they can feel better about their choices or the situation of no choices. That’s their business but it doesn’t make their what they pretend to believe any truer.</p>
<p>converge12…I’m not looking to persuade you or devalue your opinion. I am comfortable with my view that cultures vary widely among the top schools and that each of those cultures will have a major impact on how your kid turns out. </p>
<p>I am comfortable with my definition of a top boarding school including other criteria than hard stats.</p>
<p>Slim Slicker: okay, I guess we will agree to disagree.</p>
<p>Let’s take Choate as an example of a school known for having an “artsy” culture. 1. Just because you’re non-artsy kid decides to go to Choate doesn’t mean he will graduate a painter. 2. Just because your kid, who dislikes the arts, goes to Choate for football doesn’t mean he will have a miserable time there. 3. Just because your artsy kid turns down Choate for, say, Exeter doesn’t mean he will turn out a lesser artist than he would have been had he decided to go to Choate. </p>
<p>With determination and a secure sense of identity, it doesn’t matter too much in which culture your kid ends up. Alleged culture differences seem too inflated on this board.</p>
<p>Benley - there have been numerous reports on CC of some of the top HADES schools suffering with high rates of depression, counseling and attrition. These were reported about in depth in the schools’ own newspapers. Many CC’ers posted links to these articles. Further, many of the stats surrounding these issues are not made easily available by the schools because they are embarrassing or concerning, but the school newspapers do a pretty good job of covering them. I am not going to sift through past posts to find the references for you, but you’re welcome to do so.</p>
<p>You value what you want Benley; I’ll sleep better knowing that I don’t have to follow your lead.</p>
<p>I was about to give an explanation for the high rates of depression and attrition at HADES compared to the Hidden Gems, but I figured I couldn’t do it without appearing to be disparaging the Hidden Gems and their students and therefore raising even more hackles, so I will pass. But it has to do more with the INDIVIDUAL students than with the “cultures” of the schools. Given that, ON AVERAGE, the portfolio of students who are admitted into and decide to go to HADES is very distinct from that of many students at many Hidden Gems, this is completely understandable.</p>
<p>@choosingwisely: my point is that Choate shouldn’t be spuriously known for having an “artsy” culture. Their football team is great. Unless you’re talking about technical schools that specifically gear their students toward the arts. Which I don’t think any of the frequently or not-so-frequently discussed BS on here is.</p>
<p>Every boarding school, whatever its presumed culture, will have its share of artsy kids whom your artsy kid can relate to and thrive with. Heck, even I have managed to find quirky, geeky peers to hang out with at Lawrenceville, which is putatively extremely sports-oriented.</p>
<p>Well, ChoatieKid entered for STEM but will be applying to college as an artist. We are still reeling, but this is precisely what is so powerful about the various BS cultural influences. We’re not so sure that every other BS would have drawn him out in the same fashion, helped him understand the artistic nature of what he thought was a STEM passion, and then provided the resources and support to go for it. Choate just does this; it’s in their air. When ThacherParent describes the unique outdoorsy, horsey, and sense of interpersonal student “connectedness” culture at Thacher, he is describing something very different from Choate. Truly, these ARE the transformative years; the influences that surround your children DO shape them and cannot be underestimated. No, you can’t rank culture, but you can deny it either.</p>
<p>I’m pretty certain that our son would have a transformative experience at any BS, but I see the result of the particular influence at Choate and am not so sure that the culture at say, Exeter, wouldn’t have resulted in him staying STEM-focused. Is one result better than the other? No. But I can say that the cultural influence of his school has nudged him toward (for him) a road less taken and that WILL make all the difference.</p>
<p>@ChoatieMom: I see what you’re getting at, but a personal experience doesn’t make an archetype. I assume not many kids entering Choate for STEM have turned out the way your son has. </p>
<p>The problem is, we can’t be so sure whether or not your son would have had the same change of heart had he attended another school.</p>
<p>There have been innumerable conversations like this for years: stats vs. fit. If people like Benley and Converge don’t believe that schools have unique cultural impacts on their students, oh well. Their decision making is SO much easier, free of superfluous concerns. I’m genuinely envious. I could forgo school visits altogether. Just show me the college matriculation stats.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, as a curmudgeon in his late 50’s, I have reached that point in my life where it’s important to me who I’m around, not just what I’m around. I don’t care one wit if my stellar accountant or outstanding surgeon is a lousy person, I only care if they’re great at what they do. But at a personal level? Please let me spend my precious remaining hours with people who are kind, goodhearted and care about others. Like Slim Slicker and others have said (just got the movie reference by the way), people settle into who they are during adolescence. I’m no shrink, but it makes sense to me that different boarding schools and their different cultures are going to turn out different kids.</p>
<p>I am NOT saying, before anyone gets worked up, that kids who follow the converge prescription for boarding school choice will turn out to be soulless bores. I AM saying that these cultural boarding school differences DO have an impact on what sort of adult the child becomes.</p>
<p>I never said college matriculation stats were the most important criteria when it comes to choosing a school. I could care less if two schools are 10% apart in Strong College Matriculation, but I would be concerned about the rigor of a school that sends a significantly (say 30-40%) lower of its grads to US top 50 schools. I’m just saying that “cultures” and “fit” are overrated and hazy concepts. If your kid is not capable of adapting to the environment and decides to blame his downfall on the “bad fit BS” for failing to provide him with a comfort zone to snuggle in, too bad lol. Blame yourself, not the school.</p>
<p>Life is a jounery full of multi-way splits. You can only take one at any given point. Sure, it may lead you to the same destination or not, and the way and the “experience” of you getting there will be different. I’m not questioning that. What I am questioning is the judgemental attitude saying one is so much better than another. No one can live in such a controlled environment where the path with the nuanced fit can be chosen all the time. Heck, a child can’t choose what kind of family he’s born into, and most often than not, can’t choose the type of school or the specific school he can attend because there are so many factors that would restrict their choices. Let me repeat. Without the considerations of “specialties”, all these mainstream boarding schools are similar, culture wise. The top schools are naturally more competitive because they have the strongest students and some other schools are less so. </p>
<p>Yes, our decisions were easier. Over the years, I have talked to many parents from quite a few schools (admittedly most of them are top schools). Not all of us consider our kids’ BS experience an all-around success, and some do reflect there may be some things that could’ve been done in a different way, however not once did any one of us say gee we should’ve chosen a different BS. They are really more similar than not… Please, let it go. If you have choices, great! If you don’t, do not worry. School A might be rougher than school B to your kid, but it won’t necessarily be a bad thing. He will grow up and turn out fine. Look at the graduates from top BS. They are mostly OK.</p>
<p>The school makes the woman/man and the student (or family) is not accountable and plays an insignificant role. I do not subscribe to this philosophy in the majority of cases at “top” boarding schools.</p>
<p>+2 to PhotographerMom, SlimSlicker, ThacherParent, and Choosingwisely.</p>