What Future are our MT's Training For?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
41

<p>MomCares, I would have to think through to actually “count” the number, but will say that there are many peers of my daughter’s from both her own class and right before or after it, who have already been on Broadway and others who have been on National Tours and Off Broadway. I am pretty amazed at how many have found success so soon out of the gate (though I don’t measure “success” as having been on Broadway and in fact, if I add in all her classmates who are working as performers, there are a slew of them).</p>

<p>PS, Keep in mind that my D went to a large program: NYU/Tisch, and this includes actors/singers from all studios, not just CAP21 (the MT studio she attended).</p>

<p>One more note…did you mean just from our own kid’s program or any program in their year? If I add in ANY program from their year, my D has additional friends who have been on Broadway and National Tours from her year that she knows from other programs/colleges.</p>

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<p>By the way, my D spends a lot of time (as do her peers) supporting one another’s performances, both on a small scale and large scale. For instance, my D is traveling to Boston this weekend just to see one of her close pals who is a recent Yale grad who is starring in Jersey Boys (tour). She is constantly seeing her friends’ shows and they attend hers.</p>

43

<p>Momcares: I was the one who said the “Broadway can absord 20 people a year” but that is not a statistic - that was a quote from my son’s agent who was just talking from experience. He was meaning it to say that the current MT schools are churning out way too many kids each year than could ever work on Broadway. And I see young high schoolers all the time with “stars in their eyes” and ambitions of Broadway. I think all of them need a sobering class on “careers in the arts” before graduation. There are so many more ways to be creative and to perform and to be in the arts than just being on a Broadway stage.</p>

44

<p>megpmom, I couldn’t agree more. I see many applicants to MT programs, such as here on CC, who seem to have “Broadway” on the brain. I think that of course, that is an ideal dream for someone in MT, but it is unlikely that most will be on Broadway. Frankly, anyone going into this field needs to have realistic goals (dreams are OK too) and I believe that having a career as a performer or any aspect of the arts, after earning a degree in MT is truly a success. “Broadway” as a goal is way way too narrow and unrealistic. </p>

<p>My D is happy to be continually working in music/theater since her graduation almost four years ago and we feel that is a success. She was recently cast in an Off Broadway show and that is indeed a big accomplishment for her, but she was doing fine before that level of an opportunity was given to her.</p>

45

<p>

I think this quote is low, but probably not that far off depending on your point of view. If you just look at the traditional definition of “Broadway,” the number would seem to be less than 100, maybe a lot less than 100. </p>

<p>Equity does not report the number of “Broadway” performers but an estimate can be derived from the statistics that they do report, beginning with the total number of “Equity work-weeks for Point of Organization shows in the Eastern Region”:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Eastern Region, Point of Organization = 43,106 work-weeks</p></li>
<li><p>Take out 15% stage managers = 36,640 work-weeks</p></li>
<li><p>Work weeks per performer (estimated) = 40</p></li>
<li><p>Total No. of performers (36,640/40) = 916</p></li>
<li><p>Estimate percentage of “Broadway” work = 90 percent</p></li>
<li><p>Estimated Total No. of “Broadway” performers = 824</p></li>
</ol>

<p>This correlates favorably with other “Playbill” counts reported in past threads, and is probably conservative. Remember, we are estimating “Broadway” numbers, not including Tiered Tours, Other Tours, Non-Equity tours, cruise ships, LORT’s, Developing Theatre, Stock, TYA’s, SETA, Disney, Off-Broadway, and so on and so forth. “Broadway” is only about 20% of total Equity work. For example, LORT’s account for only slightly less actor employment.</p>

<p>So, how many recent grads penetrate the “Broadway” job market each year? My guess would be not more than 10-15% tops, so the number of newbie hires would seem to be almost certainly less than 100, maybe less than 50, but probably more than 20.</p>

<p>However, if you want to talk about all of Equity, then you are talking about basically five times this many jobs. Throw in non-Equity work (cruise ships, non-Equity tours, non-Equity theatre) and you are probably at 6+ times as many jobs. Equity has been averaging around 2,000 new members per year.</p>

<p>It is, however, a really long shot to become a professional actor with sustaining employment on stage (something like 100 to 1 for college theatre majors). I reference this previous thread for more stats on actor employment numbers:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1418008-more-freakonomics-life-upon-wicked-stage.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1418008-more-freakonomics-life-upon-wicked-stage.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

46

<p>MomCares,</p>

<p>This would be a tough one to give accurate info on schools beyond those of our own son - I know of one boy and one girl '10 grad from another school, who’ve been consistently working in a non Eq tour and off broadway - I’d venture to guess there a good amount more from that program. I don’t know of any on Broadway from that program for the class of '10. For our son’s small MT class of '10, four boys and two girls have consistently been working professionally in regional theater, cruises, non Eq and Equity tours. One '09 BFA Acting grad from our son’s school is currently on Broadway. I don’t believe any of the '10 class have been performing on Broadway. However, I believe if you asked them, they’d say they are fortunate with their amount of progress. I’m sure our son could give better info. And, as many posted before, many other classmates are writing their own works, directing, performing in cabarets, teaching, studying, etc. and certainly keeping themselves immersed in the world of theatre.</p>

47

<p>I would be surprised if 20 MT grads from a spring graduation would be appearing on Broadway in the following season.</p>

48

<p>^^^^^^^^^^
Agreed? Agreed!</p>

49

<p>Agree with alwaysamom. </p>

<p>However, I thought MomCares was asking about those who made it on Broadway or similar within a few years of graduating, but not necessarily their first year out of school. When I was speaking of my D’s peers from college who have been on Broadway and the like, it has been within their first three years or so out, not necessarily following graduation. The numbers are not huge but there are quite a few. Add in tours, movies, Off Broadway, and significant regional theaters, the numbers rise.</p>

<p>To me the measure would not be “Broadway” but rather who are working actors or working in theater arts or similar. Broadway is just way too narrow of a definition of success in this field. And even if one gets into a Bway show, it is not a long lasting job.</p>

50

<p>@megpmom - So glad you chimed in as I’d searched for your quote and couldn’t find it. I am firmly with you in the camp that says Broadway shouldn’t be the only goal young MTs aspire to, but I think numbers like the one your S’s agent offered are useful for young performers to hear. I wonder if the agent was thinking only of MTs or also of Dance and/or Vocal Performance majors on Broadway. It really does feel like aspiring to the NFL would offer better odds. ;)</p>

<p>@soozievt - yes, I’m asking about graduates from your Ds year from ANY MT program (not just NYU) who have performed on Broadway since graduating. I’m interested to hear if anyone knows of a single graduating year that has seen more than 20 MTs work the Great White Way, either in their first year out of school or over the ensuing years. </p>

<p>@abparent - thanks so much for offering your perspective on the class of '10! I doubt there’s any way to get a “real” answer to this question but the empirical data is interesting.</p>

<p>Does anyone have any idea how many MTs are currently graduating each year?</p>

51

<p>230+ MT programs are on the “Big List.” Some are minors, some programs are very small, etc. Of these, 150+ are audition-based. A very conservative estimate would be say, 5 x 150 = 750 grads. A more realistic number might be more like 5 x 200 = 1,000 or 10 x 150 = 1,500.</p>

<p>Of course, the number of ASPIRANTS (who by and large are able to match the capabilities of MT grads) is going to be higher, including people with non-MT degrees (actors, dancers, general theatre majors, VP’s, etc.) or non-degreed pros.</p>

52

<p>Susan, I agree with you and my comment was more in reply to Emsdad’s post and also to megmom’s son’s agent’s comments. I actually agree with the agent that there are far too many grads being ‘pumped out’ but I don’t know what the solution to that would be. And, yes, far too many of these kids have Broadway stars in their eyes and honestly need to understand that the closest that most will ever get to a Broadway stage will be sitting in the audience. I know that sounds harsh but it’s the reality. Most will not be able to sustain a career with onstage work alone (anywhere, let alone on a Broadway stage), regardless of how talented and well-trained they are.</p>

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<p>I don’t imagine that anyone would know this definitively. Without going through a season of shows on IBDB and researching every castmember, and even at that, it would be difficult to say. Additionally, I wouldn’t assume, not that you are but thought I’d mention anyway, that any new grad in a primarily MT role on Broadway would necessarily be an MT grad! :)</p>

53

<p>I really can’t count and come up with an exact number, but off the top of my head, among my D’s friends, and this doesn’t even count everyone who attended her program, but just the ones I know of in her “circle,” I can think of about 7 kids in her a capella group who have now been on Broadway and about a half dozen kids from her school who have also been on Broadway but were not in her a capella group. These span within two years of her class year. That’s just from her school. I can think of about a half dozen friends from other schools that fit this too. But again, add in the peers who are working in the field but not on Broadway (inc herself), and it is a lot higher number.</p>

54

<p>Hmmm, let’s look at the numbers another way. If there are, give or take, about 1,000 jobs on “Broadway” (traditional definition), and if the average career is about 10 years, then 100 jobs become available each year for new entrants. So, on average, about 100 people from a given “graduation year” will end up on Broadway, otherwise Broadway would run out of people. If careers are longer, then this number will go down a little, but probably not much.</p>

<p>Of course, “retirement” is probably generally not “voluntary.”</p>

55

<p>By the way, when I said, “recent grads” in post #45, I did not intend to imply that 50 or 80 or whatever grads walk out of school and onto Broadway stages, only that, on average, the numbers seem to indicate that more than 20 “recent grads” (i.e., in the last few years) would have to make it to Broadway to make the numbers work.</p>

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<p>@Soozievt - any ballpark as to what the number is for kids you know of who have worked on Broadway from ONLY your D’s specific graduation year (including all MT programs)? It would also be interesting to hear that same estimate for the individual classes in years before and after her graduation that you are familiar with.</p>

<p>Our D also knows many people who have worked on Broadway, but until seeing @megpmom’s quote I’d never tried to narrow the numbers down to a single year’s graduating “crop” of MTs. It certainly adds another level of realism when viewed through that lense. Ouch.</p>

<p>Of course the “odds” are meaningless for any specific kid. I have seen kids and felt sure that they were destined for Broadway, and many of those have sure enough gotten there.</p>

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<p>MomCares, it is hard for me to pinpoint the numbers because I am just the mom and this is just the kids I know of and not all the kids in her circle of friends or in her class at Tisch, by any means. Yes, when I mentioned 7 kids in her a capella group and a half dozen other friends from her school not in her a capella group who have been on Broadway since college, I included friends a year or two above or a year below, since they were in school with her and in her group. </p>

<p>Remember that Tisch is big. And I’m more familiar with the kids who trained in her particular two studios, CAP21 and ETW. Let me think roughly of who I know in her class/year who have now been on Broadway since graduating 3 1/2 years ago from NYU/Tisch. Hmm, I can think of at least 7 kids from her CAP21 class who have gone to Broadway, though two did not end up graduating. I can’t think of who else from the other studios as her friends are not all from her year. I also just do not know all the kids either! </p>

<p>From other MT programs, friends from her year…who have now been on Broadway…off the top of my head I can think of one from UMichigan and two from Northwestern (hope I have the NU kids’ year correct) but a lot more who are from a year above or below her roughly and it is hard to think of their particular year as a lot of her friends are older than herself honestly. She has a lot of friends close in age to her from both NYU/Tisch and other schools who have already been cast on Broadway since college and then a lot lot more who have been cast on tours, regional and Off Broadway.</p>

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<p>@momcares - you may find this page of interest - it is a fairly long list of U Mich grads:</p>

<p>[UM</a> School of Music, Theatre & Dance - Department of Musical Theatre - Alumni](<a href=“http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/mustheatre/alumni.htm]UM”>http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/mustheatre/alumni.htm)</p>

<p>I did a quick scan picking 2007 as an example year. If my count is correct, 8 2007 grads have been on Broadway (some only as US, but a Broadway job’s a Broadway job). A couple more have been on National Tours and Regional Theatre. I also looked up 2011, and 2 grads are on Broadway and 3 or 4 are on National Tours.</p>

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<p>Very interesting question momcares. I’m not sure what graduating class specific numbers means in a larger sense. Isn’t it more a question of how many newbies (college grads or not) find work for the first time every year which would be a rough indicator of job openings? Casting directors don’t take grad year into account I assume. Also larger programs like NYU or NU I assume send more students into the mix so there are naturally more “at bats”.</p>

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<p>Yes, and of course there are plenty of “at bats” who are not grads of any MT programs but come from Julliard, Yale, etc. Also, I’m beginning to suspect drop-outs are a pretty big number. Just today I learned of a girl who did the audition circuit with my daughter and left a very well-respected program after a year and a half to move to New York. That’s the third drop-out already from our little world and these kids have not given up but decided to stop the schooling for whatever reason.</p>