<p>I guess we’ll see. I’ve been told given my D’s height (5’9") that she would be in demand for dance roles, so she picked a program where she knew she’d get a lot of dance training.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong – I think the more skills anyone has (more tools in the toolbox) the better their odds of patching together a career in this competitive field. </p>
<p>I’m just not convinced that Singers who Move are even close to obsolete, in part because as a longtime Broadway observer I see the bar being raised ever higher for Broadway dancers.</p>
<p>Also, I have a sense that four years of serious dance training in college is FAR too little too late for females to make much progress toward being professional dancers.</p>
<p>Recent discussion on other threads has reminded me of another aspect of the future our MT kids are training for – financial self-sufficiency.</p>
<p>For those with kids who have graduated from MT programs, how many recent MT graduates are fully self sufficient? </p>
<p>For those with kids still in school, are your kids planning ahead, as some here have said they are, and saving 6 months worth of “move to New York” expense money prior to graduation?</p>
<p>For parents, have you subsidized your MT post-graduation? We will have a second child in college and it is not our intention to provide much financial support post-college beyond offering a place to live (home) as needed.</p>
<p>Artists have historically always required some form of patronage, but it seems in our current society that largely falls to the families of artists so I’m curious to hear how others are thinking about this. Where is the Renaissance when we need it?</p>
<p>Both of my daughters, one of whom is a singer/actor, knew that they would have to support themselves when not in college (this included summers during college if not living at home and they indeed worked out of state). My MT kid, who graduated college at age 20, has supported herself in NYC since graduation day, other than her own health insurance. My other kid just graduated grad school and her support ended on graduation day (from grad school), as well. Both live away from home and both are working in their intended fields. </p>
<p>Everyone has different values, as well as means. For me, I feel parents should provide their kids with an education but after that, they are adults and should support themselves. It is possible to do. My kids did it every summer and again, upon graduation. It is not only an expectation we have for them, they want to themselves.</p>
<p>PS, I should add that my MT kid did not have a “move to NYC” savings, as she was already living in NYC (her college was in NYC), but had to pay her own expenses after graduation.</p>
<p>I am helping out with D’s rent/ cable in NYC. I would say that is the case with many of her friends (non-MT kids, too) who are in their first jobs out of college in NYC. The exception being those who chose finance as a career path. D is not auditioning and is instead working as an assistant talent agent at a top agency. So she has steady employment and benefits. She decided a few years ago that she wanted to be involved in the business end of theatre. As a whole the business side of entertainment pays in the $25K to $35K range for assistant jobs, so it is hard to survive on that considering how high NYC rents are. D is lucky to be where she is job-wise. She had a lot of internships in college (film production, marketing, PR, development and casting)that helped get her resume noticed plus strong networking. Performance-wise, since graduation, she has performed in several venues and has collaborated on several projects as a singer, but does not want to do it full time. (She sees herself going in the direction of cabaret singer vs. theatre.)</p>
<p>Her friends who graduated last year from MT run the gamut. Some are self-supporting (national tours or cruise ship work) and some have been self-supporting for periods of time (regional theatre/ children’s theatre) but need help when these limited run jobs are completed. Many have been auditioning with only minor success and have been trying to swing it in jobs as hostesses, waitresses and nannies. A lot of them are getting $ from family. Some kids have left to go home. Others tried to support themselves, but had issues in the neighborhoods they could afford and the parents are now supplementing their rents to be in better neighborhoods. </p>
<p>It’s tough to make it on your own in NYC and in theatre especially without financial back up at the beginning. They need some cushion, whether it is through parental support or back-up savings.</p>
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<p>I know talented 60-year-old MTs in NYC who still need periodic help to make their rent. </p>
<p>Given that few parents of today’s MT students have the defined benefit retirement plans that previous generations enjoyed, I’m not sure how many in our generation will be able to support this rising crop of performers. I can imagine how seeing your child living in a dangerous neighborhood motivates some families to find a way to help, but right now it’s hard for me to see that as an option for us. Will this ultimately become a profession only for those rare few who find success immediately after graduation or children of extremely wealthy families?</p>
<p>@soozievt - I’m sure any of us would be THRILLED to have a child with your D’s extensive basket of marketable skills. She is an inspiration! :)</p>
<p>While it may be hard to make it with performing jobs only, my kid, as well as many others, usually also has a survival job. My daughter’s survival jobs happen to also be in theater and music (such as musically directing, accompanying, teaching in BFA programs and teen programs, etc.). </p>
<p>uskoolfish, it is possible to live in NYC on $25,000 to $35,000! Not sure your kid’s rent, but my kid lives in Brooklyn with a reasonable rent shared with one other person in a two bedroom apartment. </p>
<p>MomCares, a diversified skill set is something all these kids should strive to attain. My D is a performer, as you know, but works in several capacities in music and theater and so ALL of her work since graduation is in this field, even if not all of her work is performing. Thus, she truly enjoys her survival jobs too. And she is not relying on auditions and being cast to fuel her passion for theater/music. Thankfully, she performs consistently, but those other skills come in handy so that she is not relying on being cast only.</p>
<p>MomCares, by the way, while my values dictate that once one’s kids are out of college, they should be supporting themselves (no matter how wealthy or not a parent may be), I could not afford to support my kids once out of school. Paying the college loans is already a challenge, but a gift to the kids so that they have the tools and background to make it on their own and they have. I still do things for the kids, like I enjoy buying my daughters clothing from time to time, etc.</p>
<p>I am a firm believer that no college graduate should live at home. The growth and fun is priceless when living on your own in NYC. There are ways to do it, regardless of your income. When I was in my 20s and living in the city my rent was $500 and my weekly income was $250 plus overtime. (By the way, I lived in a very bad neighborhood - the Upper West Side - that’s how old I am!) I worked a lot of overtime. I also knew the bars that offered happy hour where you order one drink ($1.25) and go to eat a pretty good meal for free. Macaroni and cheese was my best friend! I was flat broke but wouldn’t change it for anything. The freedom, lack of responsibility, and absolute fun is irreplaceable and I still think about those times today.</p>
<p>Since I was in either illegal sublets or the second roommate I never had to pay out the 2 months in advance which is required for a true lease holder but I would imagine that might be a bit of stretch and might require some assistance from parents or someone.</p>
<p>Most neighborhoods in the city are safe these days and the outer boroughs are popular; northern Manhattan (Harlem, Washington Heights, Inwood, etc.) is also popular. Your child won’t be able to live in the lifestyle he/she grew up in, he/she might need to share a room or live in the living room or squeeze 5 or 6 people into a two bedroom, but it is so worth it!</p>
<p>soozievt, you make great sense. I think everyone would like to help their kids out after graduation, especially if they are moving to a high cost of living city like NYC, LA or Chicago. However, this is what they signed up for, and they need to be adults. And, for many of us, helping out just won’t be possible. My son has younger siblings that will still be our responsibility after he graduates. He’s going to have to make it work. </p>
<p>As for a NYC nest egg, that’s a tough question. For many, the whole thing presents a big chicken or the egg question. Sort of like when do you have enough to start a family? My son’s plan, which I am totally on board with, is to get his equity card before going to NYC. If he doesn’t have it by the time he graduates, he will try to work locally until he gets it. He has the benefit of living and going to school in a city with many equity options (provided you can get cast and earn time towards the union card). Obviously, he would like to have representation lined up before going too, which is where networking and hopefully (since they don’t take everybody) showcase will come in. Even with the equity card and an agent, it is a brutally tough business, but it sure helps to be able to go to the equity auditions.</p>
<p>In my humble opinion (and I am in no way going to get political on this forum) the greatest single thing about health care reform is that adult children can stay on the family health insurance plan until they are 26. This takes some pressure off considering the cost of health insurance. It is a good thing for recent grads in any field, but is really great for actors and MT people working part time. It doesn’t last forever, but at least by 26, they will have three or four years under their belts and have a better idea and understanding of where they stand in the whole scheme of things.</p>
<p>We helped our D a bit financially during her first year after graduation, mostly for plane tickets home! She is one of the very fortunate few who has been gainfully employed continuously since graduation and hasn’t needed our help since then. She is in kind of a unique situation, though, as she performs but is also a playwright and she earns money from both. She and her significant other live together in London, an even more expensive city than either NY or L.A. Most new grads require a roommate at least for a while, but she’d had enough with living with more than one roommate and has only lived with her boyfriend since graduation. In NY, very few have the resources to live without a roommate, even many years down the road, which for some can get very tiresome. For a year or two after graduation, I agree, it can be a fun adventure, but when you’re nearing 30 and still living in a very cramped apartment with several others, there isn’t much that’s fun about it.</p>
<p>collegesearchdad, the nest egg for living in NY is going to be required by any student moving there, unless they’re moving in with friends and don’t need to provide proof of earnings or bank balances for an apt. Or unless you’re willing to cosign for them and provide proof of multiples of the annual rent. It used to be 70-80 times for a cosigner, not sure what it is these days. </p>
<p>As for the securing of an Equity card prior to moving, there are pros and cons each way. The biggest con, in my opinion, is that they are unavailable for all the NY auditions, unless they’re flying in and out weekly and that doesn’t make practical sense. Many young actors get their Equity card by being cast in an Equity production, not by the accumulation of Equity points.</p>
<p>My D graduated in May, but since she went to college in NYC she has the advantage of already living there. We agreed to pay her rent through September so that she could add her summer earnings to her savings “cushion.” </p>
<p>D moved into a 2 bedroom, 5th floor (top floor) walk up apartment with a roommate who is finishing her MT degree. D took the smaller bedroom in order to pay less rent. She is in west Harlem (Hamilton Heights) and loves the area. Most of D’s friends are on the UWS or in Brooklyn or Astoria. She can see the Hudson from the rooftop and she and her friends find this is a great place for parties! Transportation to midtown is only a block away and she can be there in 15 minutes. The apartment was just remodeled and is clean, has lots of windows and best of all for D she can have her cat there. We signed the lease as D could not get this on her own.</p>
<p>D has secured a nanny job for the fall beginning after labor day. She will work in the late afternoons/early evenings so will have days free for auditions, voice lessons, acting and dance classes. She will also be running errands for the family and taking care of their new puppy. Since she will be cooking dinner for the 2 children the mom said D can buy food for herself (employer will pay) for dinner. Based on the number of hours per week she will work D should be able to support herself. The family is also giving D a monthly metro card which I believe costs $116 for 30 days so this is another great perk of this job. We will continue to pay for her cell phone, medical and plane tickets home.</p>
<p>Our D is just 21 years old so we have encouraged her to spend this time in her life working to make her dreams a reality. I don’t know how she will feel in 5 or 10 years time, but for now this is her dream and she is working to succeed. D is a vegetarian and buys food at Trader Joe’s which has excellent prices even in NYC. Her and her friends know the places to get cheap drinks when they want to go out, but many times they will hang out at someone’s apartment. D and her roommate have a popular apartment where their friends like to gather because they have a full size electric piano and everyone always wants to sing! The rooftop has also been the Friday night happy hour place.</p>
<p>It’s great to hear the various ways people are managing the launching years.</p>
<p>A few years ago someone on cc estimated the NYC start-up costs kids should plan for, so those who wanted to save for the transition had an idea what to shoot for. Does anyone have more current estimates of what it takes to get started, or even a link to the estimates previously posted?</p>
<p>I became self-sufficient at age 14 and had no cushion, but hopefully some of our kids are better planners so a “get started in NYC” savings target might be useful.</p>
<p>alwaysamom, mmy bad, I didn’t mean to infer that one could go to NYC without a nest egg. Sorry for the confusion. I kind of left that open ended then went on about the chicken and the egg. And I mean chicken or egg in the sense of go to NYC with no experience, dive in and try to get professional work (and yes…maybe get the equity card by landing one role) or try to get professional work in a different market where it isn’t as intense and expensive. </p>
<p>I agree that it isn’t prudent to fly in and out of NYC for auditions, at least not regularly. If it’s the chosen route, then dig in and be there.</p>
<p>MomCares - Here is a rough idea for you based on the expenses my D currently has:</p>
<p>Rent $825
Electricity (1/2) $30-$50 per month depending on the time of year
Internet (no cable TV) $20
30 day unlimited metrocard $116 (D will not have to pay this in September since she will receive one each month with her nannying job)
Food $200
Voice Lesson (1 monthly or before a big audition) $100
Dance $15 per class (6-8 month) $90 - $120</p>
<p>So this is what my D is budgeting for which is about $1,400 per month. If she had to pay for a cell phone it would be an additional $40 and who knows how much it would be if she had to pay for medical. If kids have student loans then these costs would also need to be factored in. She has a couple of side babysitting jobs that she does and uses this money for going out with friends ore buying clothes,</p>
<p>We visit NYC at least two times a year and D comes home to SoCal at least twice a year. On these visits we usually take her shopping for new clothes and shoes that she needs. Her grandparents gave her a nice sized check for graduation which she put in her savings. She does not want to touch her savings as she will need this money if she is cast in show that requires her to quit her day job. D is very crafty and has decorated her apartment with lots of thrift store finds and things she has made herself.</p>
<p>Showmom: Kudos to your D if she is able to get all her food/ drink and entertaining costs in at $50 a week. I’m sure my daughter’s is a much, much higher amount. I know D also has to have some misc. $ in her budget for drug store items and laundry/dry cleaning and the occasional late night taxi ride.</p>
<p>D is paying $800 a month towards rent and cable. We pay the difference in her rent above that as her occasional roommates. We live on Long Island and come to her apartment in Chelsea for weekends approximately every two or 3 weeks. She does her thing, we do ours. I always wanted a NYC apt, so the deal works for both of us. Other than the subsidized rent/ cable, D pays all of her other expenses.</p>
<p>Many of her friends have found apts. to share in the $800 range by having several roommates. But they are still getting some parental support since their hostess/ nannying jobs aren’t for enough hours per week to meet their total expenses.</p>
<p>uskoolfish - the $50 per week for food is for my D’s basic food. That’s why she has a couple of once a week babysitting jobs that pay for eating/drinking out! I should have put in an additional $60 per month for cleaning supplies and drugstore items. </p>
<p>D does not color her hair, but I have been paying for her haircuts which she only gets about once every three months so this would be another expense.</p>
<p>I love your way of having a NYC apartment. If we lived close to the city my H and I would want to do the same thing!</p>
<p>I’m sure the babysitting jobs pay around the same as her hourly wage as an assistant to a talent agent. D did bring up the idea of trying to make additional $, but it is hard because she is working from 9:15 am to 7:45 pm M-F.</p>
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<p>momcares, I think you may be remembering one of fishbowlfreshman’s posts. The quoted estimate was actually written by a student my D knew, many years ago, who was not a theatre kid but who moved to the city after graduation. I had that post saved on another computer but it doesn’t seem to have moved to my newer one. Perhaps you could send fishbowlfreshman a PM and see if she still has it. It was a while ago so a search may be a difficult way to find it. I honestly don’t recall the figures but they are likely to be higher now, too.</p>
<p>Here is a link to the old post about costs when you start out:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/706040-post-graduation-expenses-settling-into-la-nyc.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/706040-post-graduation-expenses-settling-into-la-nyc.html</a></p>
<p>The recommended liquidity for starting out in NYC was $5,000 to $10,000.</p>