What happens to a 5th year student's financial aid package at a U of California?

Paying for College
1

<p>I know the answer to this question may different from school to school, but in a student's 5th year at a University of California campus where National SMART Grant (this is being cut next year), CAL Grant, and Federal Pell Grant are used up, will the UCs meet the student's need by using loans or UC Grants? In other words, if I have been loaning about on average $3,333 a year, would I expect to loan $3,333 for my 5th year with CAL Grants, Federal Pell Grants, and National SMART Grant being replaced by UC Grants, or would I have to take out a loan of something ridiculous like $24,000?</p>

<p>Also my friend will lose his National SMART Grant for Spring Quarter 2011 due to having below a 3.00 cumulative GPA. Will the National SMART Grant be replaced by loans or UC Grant?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>I didn't respond to M2CK yet, but this would have been my response:</p>

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<p>Can anyone help me out?</p>

<p>Thanks. :)</p>

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<p>I talked to a financial officer today and he was new and didn’t really know what he was telling me and gave vague answers. Here is what I found on my own though. UCs don’t guarantee to meet full financial need (this applies to whether or not the student is a 1st year or a 5th year and whether the student is in-state or out-of-state). However, they do “make an attempt” to meet full financial need even with the use of loans but they do have loan caps when they “make an attempt” to meet full need.</p>

<p>I also will not qualify for the Blue and Gold Opportunity Plan for my 5th year.</p>

<p>[Project</a> on Student Debt: Institution Details](<a href=“http://projectonstudentdebt.org/pc_view.php?idx=34]Project”>http://projectonstudentdebt.org/pc_view.php?idx=34)
[Project</a> on Student Debt: Summary of Pledges: Eligibilty Guidelines and Basic Provisions](<a href=“http://projectonstudentdebt.org/Type_and_Coverage.vp.html]Project”>http://projectonstudentdebt.org/Type_and_Coverage.vp.html)</p>

<p>Based on the following information I have received so far, my total cost of attendance (for living on campus in university resident halls) would be $30,284 but then I heard there will be a fee increase to over $11,000 so it might be $31,000 or so.</p>

<p>My financial aid would probably look something like this for my 4th and 5th years:</p>

<p>UC Grant: $13,000
SEOG: $2,000
Federal Pell Grant: $5,500
Federal Work Study: $2,000
Federal Direct Subsidized Loan: $5,500
Federal Unsubsidized Loan: $2,000</p>

<p>The reason why UC Grant is so high is because ACG, National SMART Grant, and CAL Grant are being cut completely. CAL Grant isn’t cut, but I’m only eligible for 3 years worth of CAL Grant because I had sophomore standing due to AP credits before my first day. I am not a transfer student. I came directly from high school.</p>

<p>If anyone has any input, then post. Thanks. :)</p>

<p>Federal Perkins Loan may replace the unsubsidized loan though.</p>

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<p>Lots of useful information…thanks!</p>

<p>Are you sure that the UC will substitute a UC grant when the Cal Grant runs out?</p>

<p>I have a similar concern with my son. If he takes all five AP tests in May, he will have a lot of AP credits when he enters college. I don’t want this to adversely affect his financial aid.</p>

<p>I recall that my oldest son had this happen to him. The UC said that he had junior standing while he was a sophomore and this eliminated one of his grants. We ended up paying the difference out of pocket.</p>

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<p>I agree with the above question…</p>

<p>Find out if your UC is going to “make up” the loss of your other grants. I wouldn’t count on that.</p>

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<p>Which UC does your oldest son go to? What UC is your High School senior son going to? I know in the past I have asked people too many personal questions on what school they are going to, but I need to know the schools in question to give a targeted response since each UC has their own financial aid algorithm. </p>

<p>Here is an example: </p>

<p>At UCLA if a freshman who came directly from high school who has senior standing before the first day at UCLA due to AP credits and community college classes, he will still be eligible for 6 years of financial aid.</p>

<p>At UCSB, this is not true. At UCSB if a freshman who came directly from high school who has senior standing before the first day at UCSB due to AP credits and community college classes, he will only be eligible for 3 years of financial aid. This is totally ridiculous because the student is being punished for working too hard in high school. If the student studies a major that is impossible to graduate using fewer than 11 academic quarters in the academic year (Spring, Winter, Fall) while still makes ample use of summer sessions, then the student is screwed. Some majors at UCSB are pretty much any engineering major except for maybe CS, Comp E, “maybe” ME. </p>

<p>Ch E and EE are impossible to graduate from with fewer than 11 quarters. So if you are a top student at UCSB who majors in Ch E or EE who is only eligible for 3 years of financial aid, what are you suppose to do? The current financial aid policy at UCSB is ridiculous. :(</p>

<p>I was also like your oldest son how I had one of my grants taken away in my second year due to the fact I had junior standing my second year. :(</p>

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<p>Yes, you are very much welcomed.</p>

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<p>UCs will only replace CAL Grant with UC Grant if you are in your first 4 years of undergraduate study and assuming you are still eligible for financial aid. One reason why you wouldn’t get CAL Grant for 4 years is due to a standing higher than freshman when you first entered UC (before your first day of class at the UC). Sophomore standing gives you 3 years of CAL Grant, junior standing 2 years of CAL Grant, senior standing 1 year of CAL Grant. :(</p>

<p>Ask me if anyone has any other questions and provide information if you have any.</p>

<p>Thanks. :)</p>

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<p>This is happening to me right now. I recently got an e-mail from CSAC saying that they won’t be giving me any more payments (year 3). Turns out I entered UCSB with sophomore standing directly from high school because of AP Exams. </p>

<p>Today, the FinAid office was mostly ignorant of this scenario and they had to refer me to the ‘Manager.’ A lady is supposed to call me tomorrow with an answer, but it doesn’t seem likely that they will submit the change to CSAC. </p>

<p>I’m being punished for taking 7 AP Exams. The EE program is a four year plan so exactly how am I supposed to fund those $10k+ on my fourth year?. It’s completely unfair that I’m being punished for being a good student while others who party every weekend (now and in high school) can just waltz on with mediocre progress.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>It would seem that engineering students wouldn’t be held to those AP rules since many of their AP credits don’t often apply since Engineering majors often have less Gen Ed req’ts (that get covered with AP).</p>

<p>*while others who party every weekend (now and in high school) can just waltz on with mediocre progress. *</p>

<p>Your situation makes me wonder if UCs are more likely to accept those with AP credits because these kids can be “pushed out” of FA more quickly. That said, those with mediocre stats are less likely to even be accepted to a UC.</p>

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<p>Length of time one is eligible for FA at the UCs varies from UC to UC. Some have very generous policies. I’ll have to relook it up, but at least one of them is 18 quarters (or six years). Many of them have a method for appeal especially if the number of quarters allowed is low. The only catch is that there’s no guarantee of what sort of aid you would get.</p>

<p>Cal Grant is controlled by the state, not the UCs. They have no say in that hiccup that happens if you enter with higher than frosh standing. Since the UCs get money from that without having to dip into their own funds, I doubt they’d accept more AP credits simply to push a kid out of FA sooner.</p>

<p>keltix:
You should still qualify for the Blue&Gold promise if you qualified for Cal Grant. The only rules I’ve ever found are that you must be within your first four years at a UC (two for transfers) in regards to length of time one qualifies. It does not appear to be prorated like Cal Grant is. Since Cal Grant can be deferred and the payments made at a later date, it makes sense that there is the “countdown” of sorts for eligibility (for example, mine right now is something like .33 remaining of eligibility… which translates to one quarter remaining).</p>

<p>I do not know for sure, though, about Blue&Gold. It is possible it follows the same prorated pattern that Cal Grant does. But there is nothing the UCs can do for you in regards to Cal Grant since it is a state program. They have to follow the rules set by the state.</p>

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<p>Keltix:</p>

<p>Can you post the UCSB’s FAO’s response when you get their response? Also are you getting CAL Grant in your 3rd year, Spring quarter (this quarter)?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>Will do. I did receive CAL Grant payment up until this quarter (year 3, spring quarter 2011).</p>

<p>I think the FA office does have at least some control over the Cal Grant issue since all they have to do is simply send CSAC a letter that says they incorrectly determined my Education Level (EL) when I matriculated. </p>

<p>Terrible part is that the FA office determines freshman as 1-40.9 units and sophomores as 41+ units while the rest of campus appears to judge freshman as 1-44.9 units. Guess how many I enrolled with? 44.</p>

<p>I doubt the FAO will relent.</p>

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<p>Do you have a link to this difference? Not that I don’t believe you, but that’s definitely a new one on me. If it is true, it is something that might help your case. You will need the proof of the different unit requirements (hence asking if you have the information readily available to show).</p>

<p>Also note that this is something you should have caught when you entered UCSB. Your CSAC profile would have noted the three years of eligibility and that is something to have been addressed then, not three years later. I’ve long gotten into the habit to check my CSAC regularly to make sure money is dispersing correctly and that I still have the correct remaining eligibility.</p>

<p>I do stand by my statement that none of the UCs have sway over how Cal Grant operates. It has nothing to do about them “not wanting to relent,” but that you let this go for quite some time before you chose to address it. It could simply be too late at this point.</p>

<p>The FAOs can really do nothing for you. If their policy is a lower unit count to qualify as sophomore status, then that is what must be lived with. You could take this up with CSAC themselves (armed with proof of the status differences, of course) and see what can be done. I honestly believe it’s out of an FAO’s hands at this point. A letter claiming a “mistake was made” won’t help since, if the lower unit count is true, it wasn’t incorrect based on the rules established at UCSB.</p>

<p>I would inquire to the FAO, though, about Blue&Gold promise. It might still be in effect.</p>

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<p>[UC</a> Santa Barbara General Catalog - Units of Credit](<a href=“http://my.sa.ucsb.edu/catalog/Current/AcademicPoliciesProcedures/UnitsofCredit.aspx]UC”>UC Santa Barbara General Catalog - Units of Credit)</p>

<p>It is something I should have caught earlier.</p>

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<p>That doesn’t have the special unit amount you were claiming that UCSB’s FA has that is different from the campus’. That is just UCSB’s unit requirements for class levels. They’re the same at all UCs. I was asking about documented information that shows UCSB’s FA’s unit considerations are different.</p>

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<p>It’s on a little piece of paper on the cubicle walls of the FA office. Can’t really find it online.</p>

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<p>Okay, now I’ll agree this is super messed up if the information is not available online and only on that tiny little paper. It should be documented somewhere else, but I can’t seem to find it myself either. I still say it would have been best if you had looked at your CSAC and seen this issue early on, but there’s definitely a bit more going on than your original post suggested.</p>

<p>I would definitely call CSAC tomorrow if you can or at least at some point this week. Preferably tomorrow, though, as you need to know if there is any way you can proceed. I can see you being SOL simply because this was not dealt with from the beginning, though :(. And I keep saying this, but ask UCSB about if the Blue&Gold promise will still be in effect for you. I have a feeling it will based on my understanding of it.</p>

<p>In the end, everyone is just following the rules as written. However, I do find it a bit disturbing that not only is there apparently a 5 unit difference between what the campus and what the campus’ FA considers to be a frosh, but that the information does not seem to be easy to locate.</p>

<p>Out of curiosity, was the difference only for frosh standing or did it extend to other standings as well? Do you recall any explanation for the difference?</p>

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<p>A UCSB FAO also told me around February 2009 that UCSB will give financial aid via UC Grant to make up for the lost CAL Grant 4th year if you only qualify for 3 years worth of FA for having Sophomore status at the beginning. Can anyone confirm whether February 2009 was before or after the passing of the Blue and Gold Opportunity Plan?</p>

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<p>February 2009 was when it was officially announced that it was going into affect for the coming year:
[University</a> of California - UC Newsroom | UC Regents approve policy providing minimum aid for lower-income students](<a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/19471]University”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/19471)</p>

<p>The application of it is something that should be confirmed, though. It seems like nothing was mentioned when keltix was speaking with an FAO. But this is just based on what keltix has shared so far. It seems to me that the FAO should have already settled any concerns keltix had by mentioning this. But perhaps the FAO did not know about it applying which is why it needs to be asked about.</p>

<p>Always better to confirm things for yourself, you know? ;)</p>

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<p>OK, So FAO says the unit requirement is strict so there is absolutely no way to change the fact that I came in with sophomore standing. Something about CSAC being super-strict about the unit requirements (maybe the 40.9 unit cap is imposed by CSAC?).</p>

<p>Fortunately, the FAO did mention that I don’t need to worry because a UC grant would replace the CAL Grant’s absence next year. When I asked if this was the Blue&Gold Promise, she confirmed it was.</p>

<p>Not sure if anyone really needs it, but let me know if you need the different break up for the units and class level (from FA office cubicle). I could probably take a picture or something.</p>

<p>So yea, Cal grant elligibility is reduced if you take too many APs.</p>

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<p>The UCSB FAO told me they got the class standing information directly from the registrar and it is as follows (I also got this information in the flyer from the cubicle):</p>

<p>Freshman: 0-39.9
Sophomore: 40.0 - 83.9
Junior: 84.0-134.9
Senior: 135.0+</p>

<p>They also said the registrar updated the class levels to this:</p>

<p>[UC</a> Santa Barbara General Catalog - Units of Credit](<a href=“http://my.sa.ucsb.edu/catalog/Current/AcademicPoliciesProcedures/UnitsofCredit.aspx]UC”>UC Santa Barbara General Catalog - Units of Credit)</p>

<p>without telling the FAO so the FAO has the out-dated information. The FAO also knows that they have out-dated information but they aren’t doing anything about it because it is a big hassle for them. </p>

<p>The UCSB FAO also said they modified their FA policy to give incoming 1st year students coming directly from high schools 18 quarters worth of FA eligibility even if they come in as seniors with a lot of AP credits. </p>

<p>The UCSB FAO says lost CAL Grant will be replaced by UC Grant (dollar per dollar) for the 4th year via Blue and Gold Opportunity Plan and 5th year and 6th year (dollar per dollar) because they feel like it. </p>

<p>Maximum Summer UC Grant is $1750 and max summer Pell Grant is total year Pell Grant divided by 3.</p>

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<p>Perhaps I just read too much, but I was already aware that they do reduce eligibility based on class standing when you enter. It is, sadly, not something they bold up front, but that is in the information. Since I was a transfer student, I probably had more motivation to dig through the fine print, though, because they are upfront about the reduced eligibility for junior transfers. I don’t like to be surprised so I read everything I could :B</p>

<p>The unit thing is very odd and I really can’t imagine it being something the state enforces on that front. Class standing is determined by the college. Based on what chaospaladin posted, the class level doesn’t match up between FA and college until you’re entering your senior year. </p>

<p>If it’s simply a case of “not having updated to match campus rules,” this really needs to be addressed. Or the the difference should be more prominently displayed on the FA website. It’s easy enough to find the number of quarters one is eligible for aid.</p>

<p>In any case, I’m glad you asked about Blue&Gold. While I was fairly sure the promise would still apply, it is always best to have that confirmed for yourself. I hope you can breathe a little easier knowing that your fees will still be covered :)</p>