What If -- kids did whatever they felt like in High School?

Applying to College
21

<p>Hmm... You present a general argument for greater student independence, which would lead students to "be themselves" and develop individually. It's common sense: nobody can care about everything, and interests do not always include classes leading to elite colleges.</p>

<p>Logically: if a person gets into an elite college mostly by taking conforming classes and activity paths, they will end up stuck in departments with more of the same. People should not seek the hardest possible courses in subjects they cannot enjoy. The current school system stresses college entry, pushing more students to do that, though.</p>

<p>Problem: Not that many people share the sense of motivation you describe. I'd say a lot of teens want to simply avoid effort, which will not make them grow at all. Meanwhile, it is possible to enjoy and grow from the college prep classes. It's a matter of subject preference.</p>

<p>Maybe we could support your method by offering high school credit to students on an "Individual Development Path" where they opted out of, say, two classes/semester to pursue an outlined growth program.</p>

<p>Example: student outlines reading plan of books of a certain subject, complete with overall report/related project to demonstrate true work on student's part. Simultaneously, student participates in mock trial team, connecting our justice system to existentialism.</p>

22

<p>I did do pretty much what I wanted...still got into some great (by my book) schools and enjoyed High School.</p>

23

<p>I'm pretty sure one of the main reasons I've been admitted to Columbia, Duke, Pomona, Georgetown, and USC is that I did exactly what I wanted to and didn't fashion my ECs into whatever I felt would get me into college.</p>

<p>In my case, I play and design real-time strategy computer games, which takes a lot of my time. I wrote my main essay on this very and was very upfront with what I did and why I enjoyed it. Many people think I'm joking when I tell them where I got in after telling them what my essay was about, because they expect more "academic ECs," which I've just never been interested in.</p>

24

<p>I know what some of mine would of done during high school! My sophomore is envious of a senior in his AP World class because he only is taking two classes this year. Has an internship. Can come to school when the first class starts, leave in between and leave after his last class. Oh, the envy in his voice when he talked about this. And here I am trying to get him to squeeze in an extra course next year!!! Sigh.</p>

25

<p>I agree with a lot of the posts on this thread, including that of the OP.</p>

<p>As a senior looking back on my high school career, I'm proud. I didn't join a bunch of activities and soar to leadership positions in all of them - I didn't want to. I joined 2 or 3 activities that I was legitimately interested in, and had a lot of fun doing so. I balanced school life with a social life; I wasn't a complete tool who stayed at school 24/7 for the sake of a resume. I enriched my school, but I also had time to hang out with my friends, party, and get laid.</p>

<p>Overall, I lived a pretty well-balanced life, and I still got into a lot of great schools. (It is worth mentioning that my top 2 schools rejected me for weakness of e.c.'s, but my 3rd choice gave me a full scholarship, so who can complain?)</p>

26

<p>I've always done exactly what I wanted and I've already gotten in two competitive schools. And my passions don't necessarily lie in the sciences or the usual academics. My school offers the option to take Ap sciences as electives sophomore or junior year. I chose not to either year because I'd have to give up one of my two electives: band or art. I didn't want to. I did it knowing full well that I'd probably lose rank (band and art are "regular" compared to AP weighting on GPA) and it would make me less competitive for colleges. I didn't care. Turns out, it didn't really hurt me. I'm still ranked second in my class. I've never taken a SAT practice test. All my activities are ones I do cuz I like them. I never did a sport, cuz I knew even if it made me look more well-rounded I'd hate it. I've already gotten into Swarthmore and U of Chicago. I am waiting on three Ivies tomorrow. Even if I got rejected tomorrow, I wouldn't change a single thing i did.</p>

27

<p>That's what I've done. I mean, <em>occasionally</em> I chose to do something with it looking "good on my college apps" as an argument, but never the whole reason--just another positive aspect of it. </p>

<p>I'm happier than most people I know who just did it all for school. :)</p>

28

<p>Im pretty much the person you described as doing whatever they want. Ive done watercolor painting, 10EC's one year each, 4 sports some only one year, spent about 3 hrs total studying fr tests, read philosophy books, took three photography courses, studied the civil rights movement etc. </p>

<p>I got into the school of my dreams.</p>

29

<p>Your thoughts have been shared by many parents, as well as by those "in the industry." Despite the fact that I work in the field of college admissions, I think the ideal college admissions situation is one in which a bright, motivated, creative kid does what he or she wants to and finds a school that is a good fit for what he or she wants to do in life.</p>

<p>It's absolutely possible to start making plans for admissions into Harvard as soon as your child is born. In NYC, LA, or DC, admission into the right toddler playgroup leads to admission to the right preschool, which leads to admission into the right private school, which significantly boosts the odds of admission into an Ivy League school. At each step of the admission process, there are things parents and students can do to increase their chances of making it one step closer to the Kingdom of Harvard.</p>

<p>That said, I think there's a far healthier approach. Parents communicate the importance of an education to their children and help them learn to value academics. Students do what they want to do as long they're doing well in school. Starting the summer between sophomore and junior year, students start making choices that will enhance their appeal to college. For example, they may take advantage of a summer volunteer and/or job opportunity that would look good on an application -- and is still something meaningful or important to them.</p>

<p>Then, starting their junior year, students begin to really set some priorities regarding the college admissions process. The admissions process should never be <em>the</em> determinant of whether or not to do something, but it should be a consideration. Finally, parents and students should work with an objective source to work on ensuring that their application has a hook and clearly communicates some sort of theme that will be appealing to admissions officer. An objective source could be a teacher, guidance counselor, knowledgeable family friend, online do-gooder, or professional consultant.</p>

30

<p>Personally I had a great time in high school, despite having "conforming" classes. It's just bad if you don't like it but take it anyway. I essentially planned out my whole high school schedule back in 8th grade, but I threw in some electives and a sport I liked (tennis) and still had fun. Maybe it's just because I never concerned myself with getting into a top college that I had an easier time, but I definitely started working towards "looking better" during my junior year. I still do whatever I want in my free time though, I shifted from games > forums > anime > art > computer stuff for my hobbies throughout these 4 years. My extracurriculars mostly consist of tennis, a CSL club, some random other interest clubs with friends, and hobbies outside of school.</p>

<p>I've been accepted into all that I've applied to but UCLA, Cal, and Cal Poly SLO.</p>

31

<p>From my experience, I feel that high school is a barrier for people who know who they are as individuals. I did what I wanted to do in high school: to get out of high school as quickly as possible so I can get into college and be myself. I did not care for a strictly liberal arts education, but an "edgy" education that combines pre-professionalism in business with liberal arts elements (hence why I did not apply to any ivies except Cornell and UPenn). </p>

<p>My high school curriculum was great, but it did not offer any advanced-level courses in finance, business management, or business law. Nor did it offer anything besides AP classes I did not want to take. I was bored out of my mind with the curriculum (especially the math department), and struggling with others that did not interest me. As a junior (early graduate), I felt I made the right decision in graduating early. </p>

<p>If I could have taken any courses in high school without the required curriculum, my schedule would have looked like:
English: Literature and Composition, British Literature, Shakespeare, Communications/Creative Writing.
Mathematics: Trigonometry/Calculus I, Calculus II, Calculus III, Linear Algebra/Statistics
Science: Inorganic Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Biochemistry, Genetics
Social Studies: Macroeconomics/Microeconomics, Introduction to Law, Business Law I
Foreign Language: Spanish 4, Spanish Language, Spanish Literature
Others: Finance I, Financial Management, Corporate Finance, Risk Management</p>

<p>But of course, no high school would be able to offer such courses besides a few prestigious private schools. I had to be stuck with required classes like all the English classes, health, gym, APUSH, APBIO, Geometry, Pre-Calculus, Honors Earth Science, American Government, and AP Euro. My transcript did not reflect who I was as an individual, and my schedule, albeit rigorous, was impassioned. I can say that even though this year’s schedule was all AP, it reflected more of me than the other years of high school. I finally get to take the classes I wanted to take: Calculus, Spanish Literature (it’s hard, but so worthwhile), Chemistry, and Economics. Even in APUSH, I managed to revolve most of my studies around economics, statistics, and finance. If I didn’t have so much junk in my transcript, I would have been able to continue playing tennis and ping-pong, join debate and business club, or try something fun like gospel choir instead of having to deal with college stuff and meeting requirements. Heck, if it weren’t for math team, I would have lost all interest in high school.</p>

32

<p>As a high school senior who looks back upon his high school years, I realize everything I have done in school was driven by the one goal to get into an "elite" school.
I was recently accepted to quite the "elite" school, but I cannot stop thinking about all the possible things I've missed out while I was younger. You only get to be 17 once and I don't want to 77 and look back at those days and all I can remember are the late night research papers and class days that lasted from 8 am to 6pm...
I hope that attending this school will at the end be worth it.</p>

33

<p>I agree! It's junior year and I just feeling like sitting back and reading about Lincoln (I'm inexplicably--or explicably I guess because I could talk about him for about a year--fascinated). It's weird. But I feel like that should be something colleges want--when I see all these kids doing "activities"--activities are fun, but I just can't get that interested when there's so much else to discover--it's one thing to figure out whether the U.N. is effective--a huge research paper--one could spend years--quite another to debate the question on a high school debate team. I wish there was less focus on cursory and superficial accomplishments, and more focus on becoming a real person. I'm not sure if I sound ridiculous or not; it's just something I've been thinking about.</p>

34

<p>This thread makes me think of a conversation I had with a fellow HS junior. I'll say that he's uber-impressive ... he holds like 3.9-ish GPA while being in water polo, track, and swimming, Science Olympiad, band, and other volunteering clubs. It's a total laundry list, but he's very active in everything he does. He's also in my AP Calc class, because he's quite math-oriented as well, so he skipped ahead. He was also a few points away from qualifying for the USAMO as a sophomore. Here's the conversation: </p>

<p>"Hey, XXX, I'm gonna get a B in Calc." </p>

<p>"That's okay. You can't get As all the time." </p>

<p>"But I'm gonna be screwed." </p>

<p>"Why?" </p>

<p>"Because math is supposed to be something that I'm good at." </p>

<p>"You already are very good at it. You practically aced the AMC test." (He got a 144 this year) </p>

<p>"Exactly! So why I can't I do calc?" </p>

<p>"It's new stuff. New territory that AMC doesn't touch on. Spend more time on it. Drop a club or a sport. You can "afford" to" </p>

<p>"No way! I'm so screwed..." </p>

<p>"Why?" </p>

<p>"Because I'm gonna be rejected by all the top schools I'm applying to next year." </p>

<p>This makes me think: If people didn't set their minds on getting into the top schools (either they are self-motivated or they are forced by their parents), would life be meaningless for some people? I mean, if I actually tried to have his schedule, I think I would collapse.</p>

35

<p>I completely agree with the idea that you should do what you love.</p>

<p>I love to learn, so I went to a high school without grade inflation and tons of APs because I heard the academics were good, and for the most part they were. But while in high school I made the decision to take all the hardest classes, which combined with my participation in the school choir, speech and debate, and student government (all things I love to do) my grade suffered. I had the choice between stopping what I love for grades or doing what I was passionate about. 12 APs and an unweighted 3.4 later, I applied to college and was accepted to Chicago and Berkeley DESPITE my numbers.</p>

<p>So do what you love. It still works out.</p>

36

<p>thats basically the way i live my life. i took the classes i wanted to take and did the extracurriculars i wanted to do. i never let where i wanted to go to college have an influence on the way i went about doing things in highschool. </p>

<p>that being said, i still got accepted along with the other kids who treated highschool like a business.... so you tell me which path is better. if it's meant to be you'll end up at that school one way or another</p>

37

<p>Look at your banking system. This is what the elite have produced.</p>

38

<p>As a parent of 3 high school students, one of whom has just been rejected at two colleges (including the only Ivy he applied to), has been wait listed at 4 others and admitted to 3, I can only say that what seems to be apparent is that one must have a specific "passion" for "something" to be in the mix. My eldest is extremely well rounded, renaissance in fact, in his interests and capabilities. He kept his diverse involvement in scouts (Eagle Rank), Band (soloist/president), MUN, soccer/tennis (captain), etc as well as keeping up his academics. He did not take practice SATs and performed above the 700s in all and he spent most summers with his family traveling. But as a teenager he continues to explore these myriad possibilities to find that "singular passion" and perhaps in the mix he looked to "well rounded", which is simply a byproduct of who he is as an individual and it seems that may have hurt him. My second eldest, a junior, loves tennis, and I think I shall encourage him to focus on what he loves, because he is so good at it. It's just a shame that my other, who has so many talents hadn't yet chosen "the one". Thankfully, in the long run I believe that willingness to absorb as much of what is around you as you are able will serve him exceedingly well in life, regardless of the college name on his diploma. It would be kind of boring if your passion for Italian food never led you to explore Indian Curry. Why do we need to be specialists at 18?</p>

39

<p>I never had a shot of getting into the Ivies I didn't even apply. For me I don't understand that whole craze. I lived in Princeton, NJ my dad taught there for a year and it was very cool, but not somewhere I would want to go. My dad teaches at Northwestern and again cool but not for me. Lots of the students who I met who got into the best schools weren't the most interesting people, but people who studied hard maybe founded a club. The most interesting people I know are going places like Smith, Hampshire, and Reed.</p>

40

<p>
[quote]
What if kids did whatever they wanted?

[/quote]
The answer comes from Econ and game theory. Ever heard of the prisoners dilemma? See Prisoner's</a> dilemma - Wikipedia In that game, the best choice for each player is not the best for both of them. They both do better if they cooperate, but each will do better if they rat out their friend.</p>

<p>What you are proposing is a million-player version of the game. Sure, the outcome would be better for everyone if everyone did whatever they felt like in college. The key, though, is everyone. And every applicant would know that if all the other kids out there are presenting mediocre ECs (in the eyes of adcoms), then it's easy to rise above the crowd applying to elite schools, at least as far as ECs go. It's the prisoner's dilemma all over again, and cheating pays off big-time.</p>