One of my sons is an expat overseas. Has been there 4.5 years now. Turned 30 this year. He’s made a life, is self-supporting, can travel, has a serious GF. Lives pretty well over there on what’s essentially minimum wage around here. But…he can’t contribute to an IRA or SS because he doesn’t get W-2 income (he self-reports) and qualifies for the foreign income exclusion. The retirement plan administrator in me worries about his financial future and the lack of a safety net. Oh, and there’s a war going on, too.
Would like to pursue his intended career back here but jobs are difficult to get and the DC area is expensive. He’s actually using his degree, just not quite in the way he envisioned. He says the COL is a big deterrent to returning, and that he absolutely doesn’t want to return and live at home (esp if GF were to come along as well). Would also like to go to grad school if he comes back but would have to borrow $$.
I question if he should get on that specialized roller coaster. He’s not a cubicle guy who can sit and analyze/program all day. He’s been trying to network himself into a couple of interesting places, which is a big positive leap for him.
I don’t dump my worries on him; he’s been chewing on it already. H thinks he should come back and get a career. ExpatS is coming to visit for a month (and bringing the GF). I expect he’ll want to talk.
I look at OP’s son and think 'Oh, he has a government job. How wonderful."
And I’m sure the thread title “What if you kid picks a profession that will never make money” was referring to my daughter, the history major (BA) and now the history major grad student (MA). She doesn’t want to teach. She’d like to work at a museum, or maybe do research, or maybe stay in college forever.
My cousin majored in American studies and has worked at the same think tank as a researcher for30 years. My daughter could do that. But she won’t.
But people DO work in museums. I don’t think that’s less realistic a goal than many other jobs – not as easy an entrypoint as say, finance or accounting, but it’s a real career path.
I told DH about this thread and his immediate answer was if we are all worried about stability/quality of life based on jobs, think about voting for healthcare that isn’t tied to emplyment. Not meant to open political debate, just another pov.
Your son is like mine and they are living not that far from each other! My son is writing articles for World Atlas and teaching English online. Both gigs pay very little. But his fiancée works for Google. They are not paying her well but the kids are getting by. I do worry about his future but I’m not in control so I try not to stress too much.
I understand your concerns, and share some of them. I grew up with very little and my parents worked hard and had relatively limited funds in retirement. Both DH and I worked (I was part-time when kids were young) and while we don’t have super high salaries, did OK and lived within our means.
I have a work friend who has been in a relatively low-paying position, as is her partner. She is over 50 now (no kids) and recently her very old car died and she did not have enough money for a down payment on a new car. Took months for her to save up that money. They live in a rental. Not sure she will have anything more than SS to retire on.
I have another friend who also essentially has very little money. In her case, she has done work she really likes, is good at and which pays decently, but she lives in Brooklyn and had her kids later. Not sure she will retire, although she has a new BF and if that works out, she may end up fine.
While I want my kids to be happy in their work, I also know how hard it is to have to watch every penny and worry about retirement. Finding the balance between work you love (or like well enough), lifestyle, and making enough to have a reasonably comfortable life is challenging. Especially when you add kids to the mix.
That being said, it is their lives. I am supportive of my kids and also realize they are just 30 and have time to change their paths. Two of the three will never be rich, because that is not their plan.
I hope the OP’s son ends up with a great career in the NPS.
Following this thread with interest as my D20 is majoring in SW and looking to pursue a career path that isn’t going to be very lucrative.
We have had many talks about what a career in that field will mean, as far as her future financial goals. I am not at all worried about her achieving financial independence (she’s a hustler and doesn’t have an appetite for big ticket items), and as far as her ability to one day buy a home or afford children… There’s a whole lot of variables that would factor in to those things that aren’t even in the picture yet (will she find a life partner? Will she want to be tied down to one particular location? Will she even want children?) so it isn’t worth worrying about. FWIW, neither H nor I work in high-paying fields and while it has taken us longer to afford/achieve some of the financial milestones of our better-compensated peers, we still got there and neither one of us regrets our choices.
As for the OP, I think working for the NPS sounds like an incredible and rewarding opportunity and it sounds like your son is doing just fine.
I have two kids and so far neither has shown any signs of picking a lucrative profession. One is working as a vet tech and going to community college and wants to major in Art History. The other is in college now and planning on majoring in Creative Writing.
But the fact is we know folks who have made a good living in both those careers. My creative writer mentored with a published author for many years and we know a couple of folks who have worked in publishing, too. Are they fabulously wealthy? Not really, but they own their own homes and live comfortably. There’s always going to grad school and getting an MLS and working in the library too.
The Art Historian we know is doing very well in NYC. But we also know lots of folks in the museum world (not just art museums, but history and science) and those are good solid jobs working for the state. I think my Art History kid would like that.
We are not particularly wealthy ourselves, but live comfortably and own our own home which is just a smidge from being paid off. We are kind of doughnut hole people as far as paying for college (not low income enough to qualify for need based aid, but not rich enough to just pay for whatever school their hearts desired).
I do worry about their futures, but not their immediate futures. I think they will figure it out. My Art History kid shares an apartment with a roommate and pays rent. Hasn’t had to ask us for much money.
I hope to set things up with an estate planner so that we have enough to retire on and enough to leave to them to help them out. My parents left me a nice little nest egg. They weren’t wealthy folks, but they saved and invested. They lived in a modest 3 bedroom brick ranch (which we sold to afford the down payment for my mom’s later years in a CCRC), my dad worked in pharmaceutical sales and my mom worked for the schools in insurance admin — neither particularly lucrative. But they were able to leave us a little bit when they died and I hope to do the same for my kids. If your kids’ financial future is weighing on you I’d talk to a financial planner/estate planner and work out your finances and see if you can leave him something, but I definitely would not say anything to your son about leaving his job with the NPS if he is happy there. Sounds like his dream job!
Good point! It’s hard but sometimes you have to step back and let your kids live their life. Also, not everyone wants kids, a house, etc. And I know people who had kids while they in college or right out of high school or dropped out of college when they got pregnant and that’s a whole other can of worms and struggles. My cousin’s granddaughter had her first kid at 20 and then had two other kids at 22 and 23. She only did one semester of college and it was quite a struggle…but then again, her parents had her at 18 and didn’t attend college. Life takes a lot of paths. H and I weren’t made of money, but when we were ready to have kids we made a plan…
She sounds a lot like my daughter (who is still an undergrad, double majoring in History and a foreign language, but is planning to do a Master’s or maybe even a Ph.D.). She’s open to teaching, but is also interested in research and public history (including museums). My husband and I are not worried, though, because we’re ourselves humanities professors and are well familiar with various career paths in the humanities. We’re not particularly encouraging a Ph.D. path, because the academic job market is so competitive now, but she’ll figure it out.
My daughter started as a theater major (unlikely to be lucrative), switched to Art History which was a new major at her school and unknown to her required too many art courses so switched to history with a museum studies certificate. I wasn’t in favor of a masters in history but all the stars aligned for her, covid had them waive the GRE exam (my daughter is a terrible multichoice exam taker and really sucks at math),they gave her a fully funded position, and it is dirt cheap to live in Laramie Wyoming. I was only concerned about taking out student loans for grad school, and she hasn’t had to so far. With the student loan forgiveness announced 2 days ago, she should graduated with an MA debt free.
Since starting the program, the department has given her a lot of great opportunities. This year, instead of TA-ing 2 classes like she had to last year, she was picked to do a museum digitation project and work directly with a professor. They also find little projects for her to do to earn extra money. She is ‘Queen TA’ and gets some extra money for ‘organizing’ the other TA (whatever that means). She also got to lead an orientation group of freshman and man the office for the open house. Good money for a grad student, but not a career.
So like other parents on this thread, I worry about where she’ll be when she’s 30. Her sister is an engineer with everything in order - house, dogs, 401k, owns a miter saw (where are my grandchildren already!).
This one is a little more ‘things will be fine.’ And so far they have been. She had a really rough start to life (born 16 weeks early, weighing 1 lb, 4 oz), so really I’m happy with whatever works for her, but I still have to worry. It’s my job. And I have to do the math for her as she really sucks at math.
Wow, my daughter was originally planning to double major in history and theater! So many similarities… She ended up just taking selected theater courses and participating in college productions instead. Our younger one is very good at math, but she’s been also gravitating towards arts and humanities (although too early to tell, she just started high school). So, no engineers for us, I’m afraid
One lesson we’ve learned–no big loans for a grad degree in the arts or humanities, no way. Ph.D. studies are usually fully funded, but some MA programs are funded as well. I think your daughter is doing really well, don’t worry (I know we can’t help it). She’s building a strong resume through her program and creating connections which will help her in her future career. All the TA-related stuff she’s doing might not appear as a career to you but it demonstrates management and communication skills and an ability to work well with people which will be very valuable to many employers. Let’s not forget the value of “soft skills.”
My husband and I have both pursued careers that we are passionate about. It’s been a long path, and some luck was involved (given the state of the academic job market), but we’re in a very good place now. My husband did switch from engineering to the humanities at some point, and his parents weren’t thrilled, but it worked out for him. I genuinely love my job (although there are some tedious aspects of it as well, especially as far as administrative stuff is concerned). Ideally, I’d like my kids to have a balance between doing what they love and being able to support themselves and have a lifestyle they’d enjoy. It’s not easy but not impossible I think.
@bopambo, if it helps to hear, my husband and I were both long-term federal employees. I especially could have made significantly more money working outside of the government, but I went for quality of life/time with the kids/job security (I was a single parent for some period of time).
We lived within our means, paid for 3 kids to go to college (we didn’t pay for grad-school), and retired “early” (62 or before).
I tell all “kids” coming into the government that contributing 5% to the TSP/paying yourself first is KEY to their future.
I’m the OP checking in to say thank you to you all, I love hearing about all your kids and the way they are seeking, and finding, rewarding lives despite not choosing the most lucrative of careers. You’ve given me just what I hoped you would, and little elbow in the ribs to see that he is doing fine. He gave me whiplash when he switched paths, he looked like he was headed to a good professional career and then …wasn’t. Although I’m nervous, I am proud of his choice, turns out he’s passionate about protecting our natural environment and helping people to engage with the natural world, at this point in human history that’s a worthy goal. I’ve never tried to talk him out of it, but sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night with anxiety. I needed your perspectives and you came through for me!
I am in mid 50s and my dad still enquires on how my job is going whenever I call. Everytime. He says you worry about your kids, and I’ll worry about you. That is parenting, and it is human.
Let me add a non-standard and perhaps unpopular opinion here. And perhaps this is not helpful for OP’s situation :-).
All this concern happens when kids pick areas to study that don’t pay well.
We should recognize that academic tastes are acquired tastes. It is useful for us to guide kids to become interested in more than just a few areas as they are growing up. i.e., both arts and the humanities and math and the sciences. I always asked the kids – are you consuming or producing here?
Make them aware what it costs to run your household, what jobs pay how much etc. They should be fully aware. From at least 6th grade.
I told my kids they could do a non pre-professional major ( I mean they can even otherwise, but they can do the math as well as I can tell them) only if they went to place like Harvard or similar. Because from there you can pretty much get any job from any major.
Just as I would want my kids to be materially comfortable, I would hate for them to not greatly enjoy their career. I ask them regularly whether they are liking what they are doing. Both are important goals. Not sure why anyone needs to tradeoff one for the other.
Neela, this is a young man with a degree in geology, not a kid floating through life with a BA in Recreation Management. I find your post tone-deaf given the facts we’ve been given.
As I mentioned upfront I wasn’t addressing OP’s situation. That is a complex situation. As a parent I would be concerned about kids, and kids will do what they want to do. I would dig deeper to actually give suggestions if the kid were open to taking ideas. Here the question was not asked by the kid. So pointed specific advice is not useful.
??? OP is asking for people whose kids have made a similar decision…i.e. giving up a lucrative career for something they love that does not pay as well. To get reassurance that it might turn out ok. That’s what the OP is asking for, not advice on majoring in math at Harvard…
Threads meander and fluctuate. CC is a forum (at least in the parents cafe) where the posts don’t always exactly answer the OP’s question.
If the OP would like us to only answer her question, then that is up to her. She can also only read those posts that directly answer her direct question.
Has anyone looked at the dog thread? Boy that is the poster child for a thread that has changed from the original question.
I have a thread about my kids situation, at times it has veered off into other directions. I’m perfectly ok with that.
The title does not seem like a definite yes or no question but one that can be interpreted in many ways
If I’m being transparent, I’m ambivalent about this. As a parent, yeah, worrying is part of my reality. I can’t help it.
But I know too many people who have done very well in the workforce whose undergraduate courses of study didn’t clear a direct direct path to their current careers. And, no, not just the Harvard kids. Lol. That’s ridiculous.
There is a SIGNIFICANT % of people on CC who seem to live in a different world than do I, so take this as just my own POV and not a statement of universal truth: there is a lot of room from my perspective for smart, ambitious and hard-working people with good emotional IQ in the working world. Of course, if you hang around a skewed crowd (like here for example), you’re going to get a heavy dose of what they’re into. Like the “software engineer/finance bro or bust” perspectives. Do with their world view what you will.
As for me, I have a couple of quants, so I’m confident they’ll wind up making money somewhere if that’s what they want to do. I have another who is making peanuts at an upstate university working as a research analyst for a funded study. She was just promoted and added another year to her commitment (for a total of 3). She’s doing this not because she always dreamed of living upstate and certainly not for the money. She’s doing it to be competitive in the Psych PhD applicant pool, so she can spend another 5 or so years not making money and then create an account on CC so she can have people give her lectures on the time value of money.
I mean, what are you going to do? I don’t know if she’ll ever get the PhD and, if she does, how much $$ she’ll make hanging her shingle out as a Psychologist. But she was never going to be an accountant or a finance bro or an engineer. She doesn’t like those things, and that’s ok.
Alas, for most of us, it’s out of our hands. I, for one, am glad that I have children who have enough hutzpah such that they were never going to be my little automatons doing what I programed them to do. Your kid went to Whitman. By definition, he learned how to think and has related basic skills that are in desperate need all over the work world. If he ever decides he wants more money, he’ll be able to figure that out. I’m confident of that.
There’s a whole lot of variables that would factor in to those things that aren’t even in the picture yet (will she find a life partner? Will she want to be tied down to one particular location? Will she even want children?) so it isn’t worth worrying about. FWIW, neither H nor I work in high-paying fields and while it has taken us longer to afford/achieve some of the financial milestones of our better-compensated peers, we still got there and neither one of us regrets our choices.