Perhaps some of the parental angst is based on an unstated assumption that if you are not rich, you are poor. I.e. that there is no middle range where someone may not have a lot of money, but has enough to avoid being poor (or being at risk of becoming poor due to a $400 surprise expense).
Now, economic inequality in the US may be high and rising over the long term, but it is not yet at the point where there is a tiny super-rich upper class, a small middle class struggling to stay there, and a poor majority. But it seems like many of the posts and threads like this one come with an implied unstated assumption that the US economy is like that, or will rapidly become like that, so the one has to try to get into the upper class (or at least upper middle class) to have any semblance of financial security.
Agree but some of the posts have expressed a variation that I also agree with: that we have raised our kids with a standard of living that may be too high to maintain in their intended career paths, even if they achieve financial security. And at least in my case, this is where the guilt creeps in. It adds to the list of “what I could have done differently as a parent” - not along the “influence their academic interests” axis, but the “how we spend and consume” axis.
For the OP, I think having a job with an outdoor aspect to it trumps a lot of the $$ considerations. OP’s kid is experiencing a priceless richness every day, worth more than any salary.
When I was interested in being a doctor, my father was willing to spend however much money necessary, including for HYP. When my interests switched to a field in the humanities, he changed his tune to an in-state public (later he recanted). I ended up at an OOS flagship and between college and grad school had degrees in the humanities and education. My starting salary, adjusted to 2021 income levels, was $38,365, which is at the 28th percentile for individuals working 40+ hours/week. I always lived within my means and had been saving up money even in college. I lived at home for about 8 months before I bought a place to live. I ended up buying a small duplex because I couldn’t afford a single family in a safe area and needed the monthly rent check to balance out the monthly outlays. I stayed in that field with very minimal salary increases (public teacher in a southern state) until a couple of years ago when I left the classroom.
I am on a trajectory to retire at an earlier age than two doctors in my family, including one who went to HYP. And I know I have significantly more money in the bank than one of them who passed away a couple years ago. Why? Living below one’s means. It doesn’t matter how much money you make if you always want to spend more. And it doesn’t matter how little money you make if you always spend less.
But to try and give this thread a bit more context, these are the salary percentiles for individual American full-time workers in 2021 (note, all full-time workers, not college grads just getting out of college).
The median salary was $50,000
16.9% of workers made $100,000 or more
Top 10% of salaries started at $124,000
Top 5% of salaries started at $160,000
Perhaps this can shed some light on forum posters’ experiences and expectations and how it relates to the rest of American society.
And of course, there is the reality that plenty of social workers, elementary school teachers, pastors own their own homes. They may not be 5,000 square foot mega mansions, they may not have snazzy new leased cars in that ginormous garage, and they may not have granite countertops…but they can still be in pleasant, safe neighborhoods.
I think there’s a difference between a kid deciding to live off parental largesse vs. a kid who understands that their professional choices will have financial consequences…and baking that in to the decision.
Agree that spending habits are a huge factor in what level of income is necessary to be non-poor. If you have a $20,000 per year lifestyle, you will have a much wider range of financially sustainable career paths than if you have a $200,000 per year lifestyle.
However, it is possible for kids raised in the same household to end up with significantly different spending habit levels as adults.
It also does not sound like the OP’s kid is struggling with or complaining about not having enough money. So having a job that he likes and is sufficient to be non-poor should certainly count as a success.
I agree with the points you made. DH & I told our kids that the goal is to be able to support yourself without parental assistance, so whatever sort of job/profession/“passion” is…whatever floats your boat is great…just don’t expect us to help you pay your bills if you decide to become an underwater basketweaver. If you end up having to hustle and work 2-3 jobs in order to live the dream of, I don’t know, being an actor or film maker in LA (or whatever the topic is), don’t count on the Bank of Mom and Dad forever.
neela’s suggestion to make one’s kids “aware what it costs to run your household,” etc., is solid financial planning advice. There’s nothing tone deaf in that.
https://livingwage.mit.edu/ may be of interest in a generic sense (although one’s own household may have a higher or lower spending level than the typical assumed there).
I am doing better than my parents who were solidly blue collar lower middle class. My mom worries every year when her medical costs go up and her income doesn’t. She worried that she will out live her money. With good reason.
My hope is for my husband and I not to have that worry.
My hope is for my kids to have a better life than we did. Or the same life at least. So far they are but much of that is because of two incomes families. I worked part time.
It was very important to me that my daughter be able to support herself if anything happened and she needed to.
My grandparents had 8th grade educations. My parents graduated high school. My mom’s dad thought girls don’t go to college. I went to college. My daughter has a graduate degree.
Hey, my film maker daughter just told me she hired someone and will be able to pay him 6-figure. Not only that she started her own company in college, had no healthcare, now she’s a job creator and provide health insurance for 5 people.
A couple years ago I did worry about her but now I’m not.
“I told my kids they could do a non pre-professional major ( I mean they can even otherwise, but they can do the math as well as I can tell them) only if they went to place like Harvard or similar. Because from there you can pretty much get any job from any major.”
This is what I was referring to as tone deaf. OP’S kid already has a BS, so rewinding the clock to make sure the kid goes to Harvard is unhelpful advice IMHO.
Clearly any advice I can give for OP’s kid is not suitable because the OP’s kid is not asking for advice. That was just a general observation.
If the kid were asking for advice with an intent to make a change, then the logical advice would be start with several of the mining / drilling companies.
Well, I have a daughter with an engineering degree and she worked a year and now for the last ten years has been a stay at home mom doing homeschooling. It is not what I ever thought she would do. She seems happy, grandson is happy, and her husband seems happy and makes enough for them. It does help that they are not big spenders. It isn’t my life to control.
Clearly people should reflect a moment before expressing displeasure.
I said if the kid wanted advice (he hasn’t asked for it here), then he would be inclined to change. And change can take many forms. That is the standard geologist track I could think of. It is not some esoteric modeling earthquakes which needs a PhD etc. The answer is conditional on the kid wanting some change in the situation, at which point he would be naturally receptive.
tbh, I did not even know that being a ranger is one of professions that geologists took up. Geology deals with mostly what is underground. Parks are mostly above the ground, except some geysers etc. What do I know?
@bopampo - here is a question for you. Your son has a BA and a master’s degree - he is very happy now, but do you think he will still be happy/content in ten years if the job stays the same and he is not financially rewarded? And do you think at that point, he’ll say - time to make a move! Or is he a more peaceful type who could be happy in this same job forever? I wasn’t sure from your post if he is married or has kids now or if you are just thinking of the future. I think the future will take care of itself! I think it sounds like he is smart and well-educated and most likely, other opportunities will present themselves in the future as he acquires more experience and connections.
Really the discussion has veered off from - I’ve got anxiety about what he’s doing - to changing his life. But the child is not the OP, likely has no clue of the discussion, and likely isn’t interested in changing.
So my guidance, to cope with anxiety - and everyone has different ways - some meditate, some go to counseling, etc. - how bout finding your local state park (unlike a national park, there’s likely one near you) and taking a nice hike, breathing fresh air - it does wonders for you - and visit the guest services center - and see if there’s a lecture or ranger session - and watch it - those people are stoked.
Your stress will wilt away knowing how much fun your child is likely having.
Honestly, if they’re 30 and he’s not asking for money, there’s nothing to be nervous about. Just be proud.
Good luck to you…I get it but he’s made his decision and unless he asks for guidance, just trust that he knows what he’s doing.
That’s great advice, tsbna44, thanks. We decided to see what he does first hand and are planning to go his park, pitch a tent, take some hikes and catch one of his water resource programs. He’ll be fine, I got caught up in the general doom and gloom, and forgot that he’s really very bright.
He likes a challenge, we’ll see what happens. He’s single but now has a ranger girlfriend, they wrangled jobs in the same park for the winter. If they get serious, I imagine they have much to think about. He has a bunch of skills, speaks 3 languages, spent two years living in a tiny rural village without electricity or running water in Africa with the Peace Corp, so he’ll figure it out. When I typed that about the PC I was remembering visiting him there and thinking, “If he can do this he can do anything.” I guess I’ve let myself see the world as a much scarier place these past several years. Even having enough money doesn’t protect us from a lot of bad things. Maybe I should learn to meditate.