My son is heading down the band path … I’ll let you know whether it leads to poverty. Time will tell, I guess.
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He may be just fine - obviously, some make a decent living (which is made better by doing what they love). S plays heavy metal, though, which isn’t lucrative even for popular bands (he talked to members of some of his favorite bands about this). He is a really good guitarist, but he wasn’t interested in playing other genres.
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@ucbalumnus, yes. I plan to put money into 529 accounts for grandkids generally but his kids may not need them. You are probably right that he would manage fine with a more ordinary job. He is not intentionally frugal – he does not comparison shop. He just doesn’t buy things. He is saving money as a startup founder living in San Francisco. His wife (wedding last week) is not a thing person either. At his wedding, one of his business school classmates noted that on the first day of school, many of their classmates were wearing expensive designer clothes and ShawSon was wearing gym shorts and a t-shirt with the name of a board game on it.
For the purposes of this thread, the key is something I learned from The Millionaire Next Door. It does not matter how much you make. The people who accumulate wealth are those who organize their lives so they spend substantially less than they make and thus save. Three big choices: 1) how do you educate your kids? (public v. private school; college); 2) what neighborhood do you live in (from TMND, if you live in a neighborhood of folks whose income is less than yours, you will spend less and if you live in a neighborhood of folks with higher incomes, you will spend more); and 3) how do you vacation (backpacking trips versus guided tours of Australia)?
One of my friends has two kids. One became a lawyer at a top law firm. The other became a high school music teacher. When the teacher got her own apartment, our friend said, “Let’s go paint your apartment and fix the plumbing” and show the daughter how to do that. She said, “Your brother will never have time to paint his own place or fix the plumbing but if you are going into teaching, you will need to learn this” and so she taught the daughter skills that would enable her to live on a teacher’s salary. She wanted to make sure the daughter had the skills to keep her expenses below her income.
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I know a lot of people who make a fine living in music (own their own homes and vehicles, etc). I do freelance work with musicians and I really dislike it when folks act like you can’t make a living in the arts.
There are also so many other roles in the arts. One of my friends has made his living for 30 years in a touring band and also has his own studio where he engineers and produces for other bands. I know club owners, booking agents, label owners, promoters, publicity, etc. If it’s something he loves he will find a way to make it work.
And who knows, maybe he will be a superstar! The son of an old friend from high school is an EDM star now and has toured the world. He just got into it when he was in middle school and decided to give it a go. Skipped college.
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I’m not worried about my kid at all. He is good with money, especially when he doesn’t have a lot of it. I hope he makes it work, but, if not, he has a lot of skills in tangential areas on which he can rely.
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How many orders of magnitude difference in cost?
Not sure I know. I’m guessing t-shirt and shorts at most $40. Sneakers $30 from Costco. In his wife’s wedding vows, she mentioned that he purchased his clothes at Costco. [To be fair, he also wears his company’s swag, purchased from North Face or Patagonia but the swag was ordered by his business partner]. Designer shorts/shirts/loafers $400? Ratio 5 or 6 to 1?
His wife is a very pretty woman who clearly pays attention to how she looks. I’m pretty sure she doesn’t buy her clothes at Costco.
Mitt Romney buys his shirts at Costco. And I’ve seen his wife photographed in a few items which I’m pretty sure were from there as well. Value is value.
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I buy my dress shirts at Costco too (non-iron Kirkland shirts). I was interviewed by the travel reporter at a national newspaper and told them that too. Great quality. When ShawSon’s wife mentioned in her vows that he bought his clothes from Costco, the folks sitting next to me said, laughingly, “That is your fault.” I didn’t know Mitt did. I had a meeting with him once when I worked on Wall Street and he was beyond impeccably dressed.
Costco clothing is fantastic for many reasons.
However, a parallel to the OP. D majored in geology as well, with a minor in Modern Languages, and functional in two. I thought she was made to be a park ranger, but she always told me the pants were not cut to her liking. She meandered through experience in habitat management, plant collections, a graduate degree in Geology, and finally focused on public gardens and flowers. She works with public gardens half time and has a cut flower and plant business half time. Lucrative, no. Impressive in the initiative, yes. I would still be thrilled if she had gone with park ranger but she has ended up a more urban and urbane individual while keeping her boots in the soil. I have learned to keep my mouth shut, and appreciate the beauty she brings to the world and her joy in doing so. And she is my personal plant and garden impeccable resource. We shall see how this evolves over the decades, but I have enjoyed observing and getting my hands dirty with her at times.
Regarding state parks, they vary widely between states. My state has a wonderful park system and I have spent the last two weeks visiting and camping in a number of beloved and well used sites. But they are poorly funded these days, with signs deteriorating, rangers stretched between more than one park and and the niceties like ranger talks gone by the wayside. I have talked to a few rangers livid at the inability to do their jobs adequately due to staffing and resource deficits. Make sure your state is still funding parks adequately, as we all need them kept up for future generations.
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Hank Paulson and his wife are also known to be frugal. I have great respect for such people (although I don’t have a problem with those with more expensive and extravagant tastes).
great_lakes_mom, I’m sure our kids would get along well. My son toyed with the idea of wild lands restoration, and spent a summer in Portugal being a WWOOfer (World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms). I’m with you on the under-funding of state and national parks, our priorities a bit messed up. I’m in the process of writing to my elected representatives to express my displeasure on that score! Your daughter sounds lovely.
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I hope no one thinks I am not supportive of kids in the arts, given my comment about my S’s choice. I worked at a school for studio artists, and I am very supportive of them & other creatives. I would have encouraged my S to pursue music if he felt it was what he ultimately wanted to do. But it can be a tough path, and if a kid who is talented feels it’s in their best interest not to pursue it as a career, I wouldn’t push it on them. When S was mulling his future, I never disparaged anything he considered.
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Yes, I was thinking the same thing. It’s so hard, because my son really is brilliant, but ANY job would be too stressful for him. I would love it if he had a minimum wage job. At least he’s doing well enough that he’s thinking about online classes, such as Great Courses.
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One of the fascinating things about our recent John Muir Trail hike was seeing how much the gender mix has changed in the last decade. Not only were there more single women than men on the trail (drastically different from the hike we did 10 years ago), but the two rangers we met who had responsibility for individual backcountry ranger stations were both women out there on their own for the summer.
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I have two friends each with a kid who chose degrees that many would probably put in the category of those that wouldn’t make any money. The first has a daughter who doubled in Art and Spanish. The second has a son who majored in history.
The daughter of friend 1 really hustled to get her first job. She contacted the friends of her parents about any and all opportunities. She wanted a job. Any job to get her foot in the door. She wanted to work. She started off as an hourly employee in the HR division of a large, international company. She lived at home for about six months in order to get a small next egg built up. She worked hard and worked her way up. She recently changed positions to a different company and is doing quite well for herself. She was and is a go-getter. Seven years out of college she owns a home (as well as a separate piece of land for building a future home on), paid off her student loans, and maxes out her retirement.
The son of friend 2 graduated four years ago. Moved back home. Still at home. Has a part-time job working in a brewery. Because of his political persuasion this young man would never even consider taking the type of job friend 1’s daughter has. Will not go to work, “for the man.” Will not be a, “sell-out.” Very intelligent guy who went to the state flagship on a full ride as a National Merit Scholar. So, at least he does not have any loans. He is capable of doing many things, but (IMO) simply chooses not to.
My point is that there is much more to the equation of supporting oneself than the degree/profession one chooses. Maybe I am just old-fashioned, but I believe a person who is wiling to work hard can find a way to support themselves.
OP, it sounds like your ds is doing great.
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One of mine did music and has a great 9-5 job related to music. I believe that internships and extracurriculars helped. They will write and perform outside of work hours. Young people with medical issues, like this kid, need great benefits and the gig life is tough on health.
Other kid has challenges similar to @MaineLonghorn’s son but is a hard worker. Jobs so far have not paid a living wage and I am not sure that will ever happen. A park ranger job sounds enviable especially if the kid loves it.
I wonder what it means to have a profession “that will never make any money?” I mean every job “makes money.” What is the standard meeting the definition for the OP and others, for “making any money?”
One out of three of my kids (son in CS) can see themselves buying a house or taking vacations. The other two have roommates into their 30’s. I don’t see any differences in happiness between them based on income differences.
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One of my kids works in what might be considered a low paying job. Kid can pay his bills, save for retirement, and enjoys his work a lot. Has plenty of time to do recreational things as well as freelance work.
Second kid will earn significantly more money…but has a much higher stress job with much longer and unpredictable hours…as well as little flexibility in location (has to go where the jobs are).
I would say that kid one has a much better quality of life than kid two…and that’s important too.
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Self employment in something that is unsuccessful may make zero or negative money, but that is probably not what is meant.
But it is likely that many high SES parents are concerned that their kids will be downwardly mobile financially, even at non-poor income levels. Probably because a kid’s $30k, $50k, or $100k income seems “poor” compared to the parent’s $200k income.
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I think it is more likely parents are concerned about their offspring’s ability to provide housing for themselves, and if necessary, any dependents in the future. Rent and housing prices have skyrocked in many cities and have outpaced income increases. Younger adults are spending a larger part of their income on housing ( and childcare, for those who can afford it).
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