What if your kid picks a profession that will never make any money?

Parents Forum Parent Cafe
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Sounds like the OP has been doing some typical parental worrying, but has been reassured by many of the stories here. I agree with all those who have said as long as kid is able to support himself at a level he’s comfortable with, and likes–or better yet loves–his job, all is well. And he’s young yet, so definite possibilities for financial improvement.

In my experience I see some truth to the high SES families’ worries about downward financial mobility. Where I live, to match the UMC lifestyle they may have grown up in requires two six figure incomes (or one amazing one). This dictates not only the choice of career but also the choice of spouse.

Among my own friend groups’ kids, here and other high COL areas, we have accepted that the kids will likely relocate to less expensive areas, and indeed the majority have. Those recently graduated from college are living typical 20s lifestyles, building careers and sharing apartments. Those a bit older have been able to buy houses and are raising families in comfort.

And just want to acknowledge those with adult kids unable to work/support themselves due to physical or mental illness (fortunately not an issue in my own family, but I do have close friends in that position). There’s a tacit assumption that we’re talking about able-bodied kids, but sometimes life has other plans.

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I have a high school friend who joined the NPS and is one of the happiest people I know. Money isn’t everything.

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I have one in finance - working the books for a company.

I have another in residency to become a neurologist.

My last has chosen to be a permaculture farmer living off the land and off grid as much as possible.

All three are super happy in their chosen professions - you can hear it when they speak about their jobs, telling stories. You can see it in their lives day to day.

As a mama, I’m thrilled that they’ve each found their niche and I certainly don’t love one more than another.

As we age we have one who can do our finances, one who can watch over us medically, and one who can see to it we have terrific healthy things to eat. I don’t think we could have planned it better.

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In some ways, I think every generation worries - as will the current. The story is probably the same - no matter if it’s 2000, 2010, or 2020.

My old employer was based in Los Angeles - and any time a job opened in a region - Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, Denver - all the young kids were applying.

Today - I wonder and I don’t have a kid in LA but if I did - how would the kid graduating UCLA and making $50 or 60 or even $70K afford to live. Of course, they can make that in Nashville, Atlanta or most any other “hot” city now - and the question would be the same.

And that’s even if you have a future accountant or other solid position in the family., etc. vs. a role that we perceive as not being equal or just isn’t equal financially as in OPs case.

So I guess OPs concern is far more widespread than she knows.

And teachers - my god - my county has an $840K median price - and we start them at $40,150. Yes, my county is not the rule at $840K - but even if the median price was $400K, how does someone making $40K ever afford to live there?

It’s not a good strategy, but I can only hope - somehow it will work out - because I’m guessing my dad had the same concern for me. And perhaps our kids will have that same concern for theirs.

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The median household income in Los Angeles is $65k (according to https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/losangelescitycalifornia ), so it is not like $50-70k is impossible to live on there (since there are lots of households doing so).

Your county housing seems to be more expensive than the housing in Los Angeles, where the median value of owner occupied housing units is $671k.

But then isn’t the usual pattern that people live in less expensive housing and commute in? Lots of middle and lower income people work in expensive areas, but most of them do not live in the expensive areas.

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I use LA as an area - the median housing price in Orange County is now $980K. The median in Ventura County $835K. LA County $862K.

Median - sure houses cost less - 50% of them. Many may rent. May be in houses that aren’t bad but below the standard of living that some may have had growing up and I suppose parents expect and hope for, etc. As you know, many families are in multiple family houses, etc. And then unfortunately you even have professionals who struggle with homelessness. And then there are the permanent renters - been to Vegas recently? - they have more apartments going up than you can ever imagine - and the rents - not cheap at all - well over $1,000, in many cases $1500. Can you find one for less - sure - but perhaps it’s not in a location one would hope for in regards to safety, etc.

So I stand by my comment - even if you like to overanalyze and criticize them (all it seems).

On the flipside - yes, we have teachers - and they commute - but I’m sure none of us - ourselves and our kids - want to have the “commuter” life where it takes 45 minutes, an hour, hour and a half to be able to do what we love to do. And to serve a community - which is what they are doing.

Truth is, there are districts that pay more - Nashville, just 20 minutes up the road, has 15% higher starting salaries. So someone has made the tradeoff of a “rich district” vs. a city school district.

But our police officers, firefighters, teachers, etc. - many don’t live in the same town they serve or even the same county - and in my opinion, that’s unfortunate.

And I’m simply pointing out the concern many would have as parents - the cost of living vs. what they’re earning - that I feel for OP but I am quite confident she is not alone - even from folks who are in jobs that might not have the same perception as the park ranger type jobs from an income, stability, or longevity POV.

Los Angeles County, CA Housing Market: House Prices & Trends | Redfin

Williamson County, TN Housing Market: House Prices & Trends | Redfin

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I don’t think anyone wants to think their kid is going to be perpetually “at risk” financially.

BUT- this generation is different from ours in a lot of ways. Home ownership- my kids aren’t interested, even the ones who can comfortably afford it. One has modeled the traditional “rent vs. buy” question and pointed out to me that the reason “buy” always wins financially is because the usual models discount volatility (which is true, both in mortgage rates AND in home values), uses a national number for property taxes and insurance, not a local one (this kid lives in a high tax area) and because the studies are usually sponsored by national realtor associations. This kid has neighbors who bought at the peak and are now frantic (this generation is a bit away from home values going down) to watch their investment under water…

Car ownership- my generation thinks that two cars belong in the garage. This generation may or may not own a car, thinks nothing of relying on Zipcar for monthly trips to Costco vs. paying for a seldom used car to sit there. My kids use public transportation, Uber if it’s raining hard or they’re tired, and have run the numbers to show that based on what they’d pay to insure a car, park a car, plus the hassle of circling the block for half an hour to find a space at the end of the day (vs. walking a block from the subway which takes two minutes) only a fool would live where they live AND pay for a car.

Etc.

So there are many young people who are doing “fine” (can meet their financial obligations and have a good life) with or without what we consider to be the essential markers of an upwardly mobile life.

In terms of “safe” neighborhoods- I’ve pointed out on CC before (and gotten slammed) that someone who perceives a majority non-white neighborhood to be INHERENTLY unsafe, is likely someone who grew up in a majority white suburb, gated community, other controlled environment. There are loads of safe neighborhoods in this country populated by non-White people which get tagged “dangerous” (and not just by the redlining banks- by normal, otherwise reasonable people). I’ve also pointed out (mostly in the context of “dangerous” colleges) that you need to parse the statistics to fully understand the difference between a student raping another student at a party (yes, that’s rape) vs. a woman walking home from work at 6 pm and getting raped by a stranger outside her building. They are both rape- but one tells you more about violence against women and power dynamics in America among college students than it does about how “dangerous” the actual neighborhood is.

And there is a difference between a kid leaving a wallet or laptop unattended in the library to go to the restroom vs. getting mugged on the street.

Flame away.

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Home ownership is less important to adults in their 20s and 30s, who are taking longer with other adult milestones as well. Whether it remains unimportant as that generation reaches its 40s remains to be seen

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All very fair comments - and yes, I definitely have “my perspective” from my upbringing.

My grown up neighborhood now is much nicer than the one I went to HS in - but that one was gated, this one not :slight_smile:

But I do think many/most look at their kid in at least the life they lived growing up and doing as well or better relative to what they know/have lived.

But I am certainly biased/blinded toward what I know and not what I don’t know - no question.

My son lived in a artsy area just north of Jackson MS last summer for his internship - and hated it. But it’s all we could find for temporary housing, etc. and he lived with two others. On Zillow at the time, the 3 bedroom house was showing at $190K or so. The area was definitely gentrified - while he’d still prefer the suburb, he finally half way through did realize how great it was to be able to walk to restaurants - plural - in minutes- with no opportunity to do that from where he’s grown up.

So I think your note is very fair and accurate and I acknowledge that many, well certainly myself, has bias based on what I know - as I’ve always lived in the same type of neighborhoods for most my life - other than the occasional apartment when I was younger or in school/grad school.

Edit: that said, my son definitely wants a car and a house and my daughter talks about it too - although she lives in a city now for college - and gets by on foot or borrows and her “apartment parking” is a 20 minute walk away - so she’ll survive - but it would very difficult if she’s in a burb without a car and is working from an office, not home.

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@blossom Kids in densely urban areas may get by w/o a car, but my kids need and want cars. Public transportation stinks in most of this country. My kids don’t particularly like to drive but need a car to get to work, groceries, etc. Where we live there is no fee to park a car or circling the block for half an hour to find a space at the end of the day. There is also no subway to take. Most of the country is like this. Not that I am advocating for car ownership, but that is just the way the majority of the country is set up. I would love it if it weren’t.

Home ownership seems safer to me than renting once you figure out where you need to be, but I am very slow to move house (we’re still on our starter home). I have seen rents skyrocket around us, but our mortgage hasn’t. Wouldn’t want to buy until the market has settled a little more though. Prices are crazy right now.

I have one kid in college and one living with a roommate in an apartment. I don’t know where either one of them will end up, but I am hanging on to our house for a bit until they are settled. If they need to move back home I want them to be able to. And if we kick the bucket unexpectedly they can inherit it and sell it or live in it. Once they are settled we might sell it and move somewhere else, but I like owning this house as a backup plan in case the poop hits the fan for any one of us in our family.

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How realistic is it for top 4% (no college financial aid) parents to see their kids have upward mobility compared to the parents? There is a lot more space for downward mobility from that starting point.

Perhaps that may be part of the motivation to go to elite colleges (with all of the parental effort and spending toward that goal), since there is very little, and highly competitive, upward mobility space starting from the top 4%.

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Why the magic 4% number? If you are simply counting the number of people above and below where the family was when the kids go to college, then anyone coming from an above 50% will mean-revert to being a 50% family :-). This framework likely does not work.

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Interesting piece just published in The Atlantic that is relevant to this discussion. The Ballad of Downward Economic Mobility - The Atlantic

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The part that puzzles me is a generation that a) looks down upon wealth as opposed to careers that let them be “self actualized”, and b) at the same time speak of downward mobility. If mobility is important to them, they need to behave as if mobility is important to them.

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It approximates the income level high enough for no college financial aid anywhere, a common demographic on these forums.

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I never said my kid looked down on wealth- and in fact, I pointed out that he left a lucrative career in order to take a job in public service. The fact that an interesting career happened to jive with personal values, AND take advantage of his expertise, AND allow him to live a respectable (if not luxurious) lifestyle… that’s what came together. The goal was not self-actualization per se- the goal was patriotism. He (and his colleagues) are not indigent. They are paid a fair salary. The fact that people with skills like his could earn mega-bucks is just another datapoint.

Not every highly skilled computer scientist wants to work at DE Shaw developing trading algorithms. Some of them work for the NSA keeping our country safe from terrorists- and that’s a fine career as well.

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Sorry wasn’t talking about your kid. Was talking about the Atlantic writer, and people like that in general.

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I think there are exceptions to the rule - most people (I believe) go for money, upward mobility but certainly not all - and that’s certainly more true today than b4.

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Sweetgum, you’ve just proved my point. It may be the norm where you live and where your kids grew up to have a car. And then a job change moves them somewhere else… and having a car is no longer the norm. So worrying (as I have done, as I admit) that my kids can’t afford the four bedroom/three bath/two car garage PLUS the two car lifestyle… since my kids ended up in places where even the UBER affluent don’t live that way- was sort of a waste of time! It isn’t always what your kid can or cannot afford- it’s also lifestyle choices.

A few young families have moved into my neighborhood post-Covid. The neighborhood gets an average rating for walkability (OK but not great public transportation, OK but not great walkable amenities.) None of them own two cars (yet) which the older folks find fascinating. In many cases, both of the adults are working from home, they seem to do just fine with either one car or no car which of course baffles those of us who have been part of car culture since we turned 16! And has led to some discussions- “maybe we won’t need to move to assisted living when we have to stop driving” which is the law of unexpected consequences! If an able bodied 35 year old with a toddler can manage the neighborhood, grocery shopping, dentist, bank, library, Costco/Home Depot without a car- maybe we could also???

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This is less obvious to me from what what I hear of my kid’s friends. But you may be right. My son is a rising senior in college, and we talk about who is doing what. Reasonable swaths of people are optimizing for things other than money. Nothing wrong with it. But the main goal seems not to be upward mobility.

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