Which part is less obvious - the part that people want to make money and move up in society.
or the part about that it’s most, but not all - i.e. some people put their happiness, desires - over the financial and upward mobility part??
thanks
Updated the above post slightly
Interesting - I mean, i guess it’s hard at 21 to dream of - i’ll live in this size home in this neighborhood, etc. - with the exception of my daughter who already knows how many kids her and her high school boy friend will have and their names 
But already - my son’s friend - a December grad at Bama in CS - not his major - got offered a job at $77K in Huntsville - and my son’s eyes are watering because he’s thinking maybe $65-70K.
Truth is, i’m now mid 50s - hate to say that - and i can’t really think like a young person.
so i definitely have biases in my thoughts - nor like some other posters, do i have kids out yet.
Perhaps my comment comes from reading too many going to CMU - and wanting to do quantitative finance stuff - the DE Shaw comment just mentioned - and other IB type stuff.
It’s really hard. Take my sister-in-law (SIL) as an example.
She currently lives in southern CA. She got a bachelor’s degree in biology and works as a animal research lab manager, but only earns about $75k/year. Her soon-to-be-exH earns about $60k.
The marriage is on the rocks, divorce is looming, and odds are high that SIL is going to have to sell the house because she can’t afford the mortgage on just her income alone. She also doesn’t earn enough to be able to afford a 2 bedroom rental (they have 2 kids). Rental apartments are $600 or more per month than the mortgage is.
It’s not affordable. She could afford to support herself & the kids if she lived in another state in an area with a lower cost of living.
A new college grad who picks a profession that doesn’t earn much money CAN make it work…but NOT if one wants to remain in high cost of living areas. In my SIL’s case, she needs to seriously consider a job change.
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that stinks on so many fronts - but thank you for bringing clarity to my message, obviously in a better way than I could.
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Can she ask the divorce settlement that her kids and her get to stay in the house until they go to college or something.
I wish your daughter the best :-). We need to look out for those that have strong felt needs, because they have some potential for disappointment. My younger one has money needs. Older one doesn’t. I just worry about the younger guy.
YW! I mostly wanted to emphasize that it’s not going to work for the average person to fully support themselves and their small family living on $60-75k in a high cost of living area.
In my SIL’s case, there are no relatives in the area who she could go live with for free. The house they live in currently is small…typical CA bungalow home, ~1000 sq ft with 3 small bedroom and just 1 bathroom. Bringing in a roommate to help pay the expenses isn’t an option.
A person newly out of college in their 20s? Yeah, if they’re living in a high COL area, they should have roommates. But I’ll tell ya one thing…eventually, having all of the roommates will get old. And that’s when they’ll decide to leave and move elsewhere. That’s why so many residents have moved out of places like CA and NY to cheaper locales.
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I’m going to refrain from answering so as to not derail the thread away from its original purpose.
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We didn’t buy a house until we were in our 30s and our first house was about 1600 square feet, full basement but no attic, two reasonable size bedrooms and one that was 6.5 feet wide x 11 feet. (We put the bunk bed in there.) We lived there with two kids sharing a tiny room until the oldest was ten. I did eventually redo the kitchen and added a powder room to the ground floor. The people who bought it from us were a pair of teachers expecting their first child. It was a safe neighborhood, a little on the blue collar, fairly integrated. We eventually moved to a house in a more upscale, but also even more integrated neighborhood. Our house was under the median by about $100,000 when we bought it. We put a large addition on it seven or eight years ago and I believe it’s now about at median. Our neighborhood has also gotten more desirable. Small lots but you can walk to the commuter train. (Sorry for the detour, but the point is that not everyone needs a lot of money.) In fact we have some young neighbors who lived here without a car for a couple of years.
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Given the economic prognosis for the future, it seems likely the US standard of living will regress closer ( but still well above) the global mean, so it is good that many young adults do not have expensive needs-diminished living standards for most, so may as well make peace with it.
I’m in agreement with those pointing out that regresssion to the mean theoretically implies that a top 4% family faces a strong mathematical hurdle to having their kids end up in the same place. Also agree that UMC Ivy obsession is an attempt to lower that hurdle.
There are many structural realities that make it likely that 4%ers actually face a much smaller hurdle because wealth attracts and accumulates more wealth (for economic and social reasons).
But as a society, this nation would be in some kind of failure as a democracy if the top 4% could take for granted that their kids will remain there or go up. The % game is a zero sum game, and that would be highly problematic for everyone else’s upward mobility.
Another bright side to embracing our adult children’s independent choices!
Fascinating thread. OP, your son is in a good spot. Loves his job, steady income, and can live within his means (sounds like it).
We’re all shaped by our history, geography and culture. There’s no right answer for any of this.
I have friends who teach their kids different things in different ways - some by osmosis, others by blunt talk.
The “least worrying combo” is the kid who loves his/her profession, has a steady income (with health insurance!) and is able to live within his/her means and bonus - able to raise 2.X children without fear of lack of shelter or food.
The problem with my specific situation is that my children have lived very well indeed, with more than adequate shelter, food and the worry is that they won’t be happy downscaling their lifestyle once they are on their own. I try not to think about it other than educate them (and I think even the middle schooler is aware) that it costs a fair chunk of change to live like this in our zipcode and most of the places they’ve visited. They know there are options outside NYC that are cheaper and that may be all they can afford.
I have rich friends who try to scare their kids into thinking that they won’t be left a cent. Highly unlikely as if they had to choose between the taxman and their kids, it’s pretty clear who the winner is. I find myself not being able to lie when it comes to this (assuming there’s anything left as we never intend to leave our neighborhood). I guess if if the children are in the “happy combo” situation, it’s likely they’ll get something on our deaths as well. My worry is of course if this kills any motivation.
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I don’t see how that would be possible. If the ex-husband were to contribute to the upkeep of their current home then how is he going to be able to afford a place for himself. He doesn’t make that much money. I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes both of their salaries to afford their house now. Sometimes people stay married because they can’t afford to get divorced.
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It would be interesting to know if there would be similar jobs for your sil that would pay the same amount in a lower cost area.
The problem is that sometimes the pay is higher because the COL is higher. I don’t know what the answer is.
Like I’ve said several times, it was important to me that I encourage my daughter to pursue a career that she could support herself if she would have to be alone.
An ex husband may have to pay child support but since he makes less and the trend is for 50/50 custody, it would be hard to imagine that she will get much or any financial support.
I really feel for a person in this situation.
Both of my children have reported that their mortgage is less than rent was. And rent prices are only getting worse.
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I knew a friend of my daughter in kindergarten, the husband moved out, the wife who didn’t work at the time went back to work, but they kept the house with 3 kids until they’re grown. Granted, he’s a doctor, but the wife didn’t work the whole time when they’re married. She did go back and became our school nurse.
A common solution is to keep the kids in the house, divorced parents switch in and out for their custodial turns.
I think it doesn’t matter what the husband can afford, the fact is he has to pay child support for the 2 kids, that means he can’t keep the whole $60k salary to himself.
That’s not what I see with my kids or their peers.
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