I live in NY, which is now a common core state. My son, a rising senior, is both dyslexic and dyscalculic. CC math simply didn’t work for him so after geometry, I allowed him to take accounting as his third required math. He took Earth Science in 8th grade and did honors bio and chem, with not great grades, in HS. Last year, he began regular physics but I pulled him out after his tutor told me that his dyscalculia would be too much to overcome.
He is not taking math as a senior but will be taking AP Envi Sci and AP US Government. He is a stage crew kid and is interested in theater tech and production, along with psychology (did AP and got an A for the year, with a 3 on the test). His overall GPA is 3.3, due to poor grades in math, and he has a 27 ACT composite (19 in math; he is getting specific tutoring and will re-take in September and he does get extra time).
Almost all schools (including SUNY Purchase, which he is interested in) seem to want this ridiculous math class and many want physics. As an aside, both my husband and I managed to become attorneys without taking algebra 2/trig, physics or chemistry in HS. I really don’t understand why there is a one size fits all mentality that completely disregards the fact that individual children have different strengths and weaknesses. As a disclaimer, my second son is a math whiz who went all the way through AP Calc BC so I do see value in math for those who enjoy it. I just don’t understand why talent in math seems to be the end all and be all for determining whether or not someone is suited for college.
My son has taken mechanical drawing/drafting, 3-D printing and radio broadcasting, all of which I think are more suited for his intended major than trig or physics. He is also working on his Eagle Scout badge.
Bottom line - will not taking Algebra 2/trig and/or physics damage his chances of getting into a theater tech program?
Thanks for any input and if anyone here has a child in similar straits, please know that I empathize.
If he wants to get a four year degree from a four year university, it’s very likely that he will need to take that Algebra 2 course to be admitted.
It is possible that your kiddo could go to a community college for two years, and then transfer to a four year college to complete his degree. Perhaps this would be the “work around” for not needing to take HS algebra 2.
@happymomof1 perhaps you can comment?
You will have to look at each college’s prerequisites. Most public universities will ask for the third year of high-school math, but, if your son was classified with an LD, they might be willing to accommodate him. Stand-alone Theater BFA programs are less likely to care much.
Look into each college’s policies for accommodating applicants with documented learning differences. A letter from a counselor might be sufficient for a waiver.
You can read more than you probably ever wanted to know on this topic here http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1899640-debating-the-value-of-math.html#latest Although there is disagreement about this, many people do not consider algebra2 “ridiculous” and some of us consider it to be one of the most important things students learn in high school. Whether or not it’s important for his chosen career, it is important for adults to understand things like compound interest.
Some states require algebra2 for the high school diploma. Recently a poster also mentioned that their cc required math at this level for the AA diploma, so starting in cc may not circumvent this requirement.
Look at University of NC School of the Arts. They have a fabulous tech theater program, and as a school of the arts, maybe this math isn’t a requirement.
Post this on the theater/drama major board under college majors in the forum. Tons of tech kids and parents post there and will be able to answer you. My daughter is going into drama and some schools care less about grades and more about the audition (portfolio).
UNCSA as noted above is great (my daughter starts there in a month). There are many tech schools that are wonderful. Pace is not super rigorous to get into academically but has a wonderful performing arts school and tech major. It may be that your son needs to take the class but that a grade wont impact admission for his specific major depending on the school. If so perhaps he can do the class online with help of a tutor.
You probably know this already but make sure that you look at “production and design” “stagecraft” “tech” and any other possible name this major can be called when researching programs. I know some kids bypassed great schools thinking they didn’t have the major when really it was simply called something different than tech Good luck.
Thank you all. I haven’t even begun to post about the portfolio issues. I had never heard of such a thing because my other kids all applied for academic programs and now I am panic stricken about helping him do one. I only passed HS art because I volunteered to clean the classroom every day.
Mathyone - I should clarify. As someone who attended the Bronx HS of Science, I don’t find math itself “ridiculous.” What I do find ridiculous is the emphasis on math to almost the exclusion of anything else and the assumption that people who aren’t math gifted aren’t as smart as those who are. As noted, I managed to get through law school and have a nice career as an attorney without algebra 2. I am not sure what “compound interval” is. If it refers to understanding how compound interest works, I agree with you 100% that it is something everyone should know. I taught my kids about it myself and don’t think a course on it is necessary. If it’s something else, please let me know.
bfahopeful - Thanks for the suggestion to try the theater/drama board and congrats on UNCSA. I looked at it and the programs seem perfect for him but I don’t think my family can afford it. Ditto for Pace, though he could live at home if he went there and it does seem to give money. His sister is taking him to look at Purchase in a couple of weeks. I can swing that for him without the need for loans.
It’s not a “one size fits all” thing. Some of it is that times have changed from when we parents went to school. And that any school with a competitive applicant pool can expect some rounding in the academic exposure in hs.
And theater production will need a level of math skills.
"emphasis on math to almost the exclusion of anything else " Huh?
New York State high school graduation requirements:
English 4
Social Studies US History - 1 Participation in Government – 1/2 Economics - 1/2 Other - 2 4
Science Life Science - 1 Physical Science - 1 Life Science or Physical Science 3
Mathematics 3
How is this emphasis on math to almost the exclusion of anything else?
I didn’t say anything about “compound interval”. I gave compound interest as an example of something which is taught in algebra2 which I think is important for people to understand.
Bronx Science:
Regents must be passed in English, Global History, U.S. History, Biology, Chemistry, Physics,
Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II/Trig and Foreign Language.
They gave you a diploma?
Mathyone -
You are right. I did misread interest as interval. I do agree that compound interest is an invaluable concept and I have taught all of my children about it. I really don’t understand why an entire year of math is necessary for that concept. I was able to teach it to my dyscalculic child just by using his own bank statements. I did well enough in the math I took and always scored in the 99th percentile on standardized tests but math doesn’t interest me. I dropped algebra 2 in HS because I realized that there were English electives I hadn’t taken and I didn’t want to waste my time on math. I see that we will never agree on the value of taking math or the damage that emphasis on it does to those who struggle with it, but I do appreciate your comments and am not deliberately being annoying. I am just sad that my child may not be able to achieve his goal of getting into a BFA program in theater because he can’t pass a particular, higher-level math class. That’s the point of my thread. I have no interest in reducing the amount and/or depth of math offerings for those students who want or need them; I just wish that kids who didn’t want math or can’t do math weren’t forced to take it. Why can’t kids like my youngest son take classes in how to manage their money and do math for life and still be able to get into a decent 4 year college? Putting a child like this one into a higher level math class isn’t going to teach him anything other than that his LD makes him dumb.
I am very familiar with NYS requirements as I’m on my 5th and last child. Three years of some type of math is fine, although I really don’t think that more than 2 is necessary, but the expectation that everyone can take algebra 2/trig or above is unreasonable. There should be alternatives. My son took accounting, which is acceptable in NYS as a third year math class. You would think that if the state permits students to take alternative math courses that the SUNY’s, at the least, would accept those courses for admission. That is a large part of my frustration. Why offer alternative courses when they may be useless for getting into college? I can’t see forcing him to take algebra 2 this year. The tutor I have used for 3 years (a college instructor who is now doing focused math ACT work with him) doesn’t believe that he can pass the common core version while still taking an academically rigorous program in other subjects. Do I set him up for a D in math while reducing the possibility that he can get A’s in other subjects? Why does this have to be a choice?
As for starting at a community college - in general, I have no issue with that. Two of my sons did that and for kids who don’t know what they want to study, it’s a perfect option for completing gen eds. However, this child wants to do a BFA program and, from what I have read, you can’t transfer into those with a community college degree.
I think that, for my son, the best option is going to be upfront disclosure of his LD’s. He is planning to devote at least a portion of his essay to his struggles with math. His math LD negatively impacted his grade in chem, has made it impossible for him to take physics and has played massive head games with his self-esteem and psyche.
Are you only considering in-state programs? Depending on your budget, I think Sarah Lawrence has a theater tech and since they use portfolios, that might help your child. SL only requires 2 years of college.
It looks like Suny purchase RECOMMENDS four years of math, but does not require it.
You may want to double check this, but I looked for this info (hoping moderator allows me to include this link); it says that purchas recommends but does not require 4 years
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=112
Purchase is a good choice. But I don’t know how they will deal with admission without algebra 2.
Well good point. They might be sticklers for that second year. On the other hand they do not say that they require 3 years of math, which would be Alg II/ Trig. They may take Alg I and Geometry as 2 years of math. It sounds like applicant will need to ask this directly and bring documentation of the disability.
I don’t want to derail your thread into a debate on the merits of algebra2. I suggest you contact all the programs of interest where algebra2 is an admission or graduation requirement and explain his documented disability and find out whether there is any possibility of getting it waived in light of his disability or whether he is wasting his time thinking about that program. A lot of rules get bent or broken for disabilities and this may be one of them. I don’t see what other options you have if you’ve decided that he won’t attempt algebra2.
@techmom99 - pace does give money. They told us the average is around a 20k scholarship. My daughters room and board would have been more than tuition after scholarship. So if your son can live at home it may be affordable.
There are other SUNY schools with bfa programs. Again - ask on the drama board as other people
Know much more than I do about tech schools. Not sure if they have tech but many people talk about LIU POST. Montclair gives in state tuition for bfa majors but not sure they have tech or not Just trying to throw out some other reasonable options. UNCSA out of state tuition is not cheap but it is less than private schools. They do give some talent awards and supposedly meet need. If that helps at all.
Good luck. Very exciting. And the drama board can give you all sorts of support around auditions and portfolios and interviews. It is 100% different than applying for straight academic programs and you need to seek out others who have been through it.
My daughter, who also entered as a theater major but since transferred (and that could be one reason colleges require certain prereq for all students, they transfer between departments), did have Alg 2 but not physics. She did not have 2 years of the same foreign language either. There are core requirements (for college of Arts and Sciences, not for her major) and she must take 2 classes of a foreign language (her major actually requires 15 credits). She also didn’t have a high enough score in the math section of the ACT so has a math requirement (which they seem to have changed since her admission)
Your son may find he can get into the school(s) but has more requirements to get out. The school may require math to a certain level, several science classes with labs, and other core classes for which he has to take some foundation.
There are schools that will admit him with his current classes (without Alg 2 and physics), but it’s up to Purchase whether it is one of those schools. Any school could require him to take math in college as part of the core requirements.
UNCSA does NOT guarantee to meet full need for all.
The only public in NC that has this guarantee is UNC-CH…a totally different school.
Thanks for the info on UNCSA.
My daughters need was supposedly met - but she also didn’t have much need. (Lol - I don’t agree --we think we have big needs!) I do know that the money UNCSA does give tends to be more need based. Not saying they meet ALL need - just know from my direct discussions with several faculty and staff that most money given is need based and they take need into account while distributing money. So that means some get very little to no money and others may get more depending on need (may not meet total need, given what @thumper1 posted above). It seems very individual at UNCSA - but they have been lovely to work with and try to help kids find a way. I am sure other schools can offer more money as others have larger endowments.
One of the trade-offs of a less rigorous course load is that it can limit the colleges your child can attend. If you need aid, you may want to pursue the SUNYs. They may require 3 years of math, but that doesn’t mean that algebra 2 is one of them. I think Purchase may be a good option for him.