<p>I understand that you don't want to say no to your second son. It's hard to tell your kid that they can't have what they want. But your post really answers your own question. You know it's a bad idea. You just need to work with him to find a good alternative. And really, if the subject of the first son and his loans becomes part of the conversation (he did, why can't I), it's fair to say that your first son is going to have a hard time paying that loan off, too. Does son 2 want to go there because son 1 goes there?</p>
<p>To my way of thinking, it is Son #1 for whom a poor choice was made.</p>
<p>I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting to son #2 you made a mistake allowing #1 to take on all that debt (assuming you agree it was a mistake)These are very scary times and the future is so unknown for you or your kids. Get over the guilt of saying no or him being temporarily disappointed. 10 years from now he'll be the kid who thanks you for not having the same debt as his brother. Trust me, I was the sibling who graduated with no debt from the no name school and I wouldn't trade it for my brother who struggled for years and years paying off his debt (which eventually led to his divorce)</p>
<p>There seems to be a phenomenon of people falling in love with Wisconsin the moment they visit the place. Maybe Wisconsin sprays something in the air -- like the human equivalent of catnip. I live on the East Coast, and I keep hearing about instances where kids from my area couldn't resist Wisconsin, even though they were admitted to similar or arguably better schools nearer home or in more pleasant climates. And their younger siblings tend to follow them to Madison if they can get admitted. </p>
<p>I know of one case where a kid got into Wisconsin off the waiting list a week before school started, when he was already set to attend another university, had been to orientation there, had talked on the phone with his potential roommate, and had established a class schedule and signed up for some extracurriculars. The kid dropped all the plans he had made with regard to the other school and accepted Wisconsin's last-minute offer without the slightest hesitation. (Wisconsin seems to use really, really strong catnip.)</p>
<p>The thing is, though, that a student with a 34 on the ACT probably has a good chance of getting a merit scholarship at a private university that's academically comparable to Wisconsin (but without the catnip). If you do your research, you can probably find such options. </p>
<p>I don't think the choice made with regard to your first child was ideal, but taking on that much debt when you have a chronic medical problem -- even if you're an excellent student -- is an even worse choice.</p>
<p>$100,000 undergrad debt = F in MY Economics 101 class.</p>
<p>
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How do you tell a kid who has worked his butt off his whole life that he can't go to a good college because we have no money to help you out with...
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<p>You give him the gift of being honest. Hard work must be its own reward first because it does not always pay off in the way we might have envisioned. I also consider it my duty to protect my child from himself so long as he is under my care, including finanical matters in college. </p>
<p>Also, the options available between going 100K in debt and not going to a good college are nearly limitless.</p>
<p>I understand why your son wants go to UW, but it doesn't make sense for your financial situation. The latest WI state budget proposed will help contain costs for instate students but not OOS and scholarships from the university are hard to come by, especially for OOS students. I guess we're lucky to have paid all those high taxes all those years- there is something special about my alma mater (and son's soon- now in his third year), wish everyone could afford it.</p>
<p>PS- do you live in VA (from va in name)? If he can go there it would be an excellent choice at a cheaper price.</p>
<p>it isn't easy when a situaton such as this occurs. our oldest didn't get any finaid from her college ( not a generous school at all ) if anything, our next daughter learned that she wanted to attend a school that made the most sense financially for her, and us.
I know of many students that adjusted their dream a bit and are very happy where they chose to attend, based on the awarded merit and other finaid.
One that comes to mind is a friend's son. They sat down with him and mulled over the offers. They asked him if it was worth it for him to attend school A and graduate with $100,000 of loans or go with the better plan of no loans. He made the right choice, thank goodness and LOVES his school</p>
<p>You show him Mini's post #22 and tell him being saddled with that much debt will severely limit his life options. Assure him, if he has the stats to go with that ACT score, that there are colleges where he can have no or small loans and be free to pursue what he loves when he graduates. You assure him that it's a way bigger gift than going to what he now thinks of his dream school and graduating with huge debt.</p>
<p>I'd also Google some of the huge number of articles in the press of late where they interview the horrified jobless that naively took out huge loans they can't repay.</p>
<h1>1 is already making more money per hour than I am this summer in an internship position that will probably lead to a great full time position when he graduates in 2010.Yes it is a lot of money in loans but I feel he can handle the payback. What would be the difference between that amount of loans than some other kid that graduates with $20,000 in loans that buys a home for $280000 and if my son bought a condo for $200,000.Same amount of loans?</h1>
<p>It's great that your older S has such a wonderful internship, but it isn't 100% guaranteed to lead to the job you're expecting he'll get. Lots of people are getting burned in this economy. Also, if he changes his mind about his field or if he becomes ill, he'll still be stuck with that large loan. He also could run into health problems or other difficulties that limit his employment possibilities. This has happened to at least 30 of my former students, all of whom in college seemed athletic, healthy and destined for high powered careers.</p>
<p>The difference between the college loan and the condo loan you hypothesized about is that in general, property appreciates -- at least eventually. I also bet that the college grad buying the $200 k condo doesn't need a parental co-signer.</p>
<p>Sounds like you think that $100 k in college loans makes sense, and that's why your posting here. If you think $100 k in undergrad loans is OK, then sounds like you should give the OK to your other S. I wouldn't encourage my kids to do that....</p>
<p>We have 5 kids. Though we there is some attempt to be equitable about things, we are not static. Nor are we inflexible. Nor are we infallible. We have made mistakes with our earlier kids that we are not interested in repeating with the younger ones. To do so just because we did with an older child is foolish. Also situations change as the years go buy. And kids do not have the same strengths and weaknesses. </p>
<p>In our case, we encouraged any school and paid full freight for our oldest. Cost was no issue then, we thought. I would love to continue doing this with the others but after paying what we did for the first, the realities of such costs sank in, and other things in life happened that made it foolish for us to continue in this way. Cost was an issue with the next two kids, and we looked at options that way. </p>
<p>You have already gone over the numbers with your student. If you are going to have to co sign the loans, the issues becomes whether you can take on that kind of responsibility with those other loans hanging over your head as well. When you cosign, you need to be prepared to take on the repayment in the event your students cannot pay. It is a serious commitment, and if your cosigning commitments can put you under in the event of the primaries reneging, you can be ruined. </p>
<p>You can put the numbers down on paper and show your student the issues and explain the responsibilty of cosigning. This is something that is valuable in the long run. If your son can get the loans on his own, that is one thing, but you should let him know how much you can reasonably afford, given your financial restraints. </p>
<p>There are some parents who are having financial issues, having cosigned loans for condos for kids who are now unemployed. This is not uncommon here in NYC where some kids got high paying financial industry jobs, got parents to cosign for condos, homes, lease, etc, and now the jobs are gone. I have a friend who is begrudgingly paying her son's car payment because he lost his job and cannot make all his payments. She cosigned the car loan when he had a great job with no thought that she would be making those payments. Not a welcome addition to her budget when she has another one looking at colleges. You had better believe she understands the ramifications of cosigning now. At least it's a $20K car, not a $200k condo. </p>
<p>I am not going to argue that UW is not a great school. It is. I would love for all kids to be able to go to the college they want without financial considerations. That was a goal of ours for our kids that had to give way with financial realities that hit us in the last 5 years. For us it would be foolhardy to go out on the financial limb that we supposedly are able to afford, given those realities. Also, not to diminish your son's accomplishment in getting this great internship, but I know kids who got fabulous opportunities at any number of schools. One young man we know went to Iona College because of their great merit offers when he had some other better known, higher ranked colleges. He got some great internships and is in a wonderful job now. He's done a lot better than his peers at those schools he had considered. He was a top student at Iona and got the best of the opportunities there, whereas his peers had to compete with a lot more for such opportunities at their schools.</p>
<p>I was just telling my kids this morning that fairness and equality aren't the same. Circumstances are different for your second son. You need to explain how they are different.</p>
<p>What do you honestly think is the best thing for S2? You know him, his capabilities and his limitations more than we do. Do you really think that going $100K (or more - tuition and costs are only going up) in debt for a UW education makes sense for him, given his chronic health condition and his likely ability to get merit scholarships elsewhere? If you think that's best for him, then let him do it. If you don't, then you have to be a parent and decline to co-sign the loans (if he doesn't need you to cosign and you're not contributing, then I guess the best you can do is lay out the facts for him). Children should be treated fairly, but that doesn't mean equally. Maybe you could get him excited about other options. There are some state schools (Alabama comes to mind) that offer nice automatic scholarships for certain ACT scores and GPAs that your son might qualify for, and many privates have good merit aid. What are S1's current thoughts on the debt situation? The closer to graduation he gets, the more worried he may become about his debt load. If he's having second thoughts about the wisdom of his decision, you may ask him to talk to S2. I personally think that going $100,000 into debt for an ndergraduate education is a very poor choice for any kid. Sure, it works out for some, but it's a terrible financial burden to start off with.</p>
<p>In addition to what Mdoc says, consider if you can afford to cosign in light of your CURRENT financial situation along with THE CURRENT financial situation. Might be quite different now than it was.</p>
<p>$100K Loan, 8.5% 10 years, equal payments of $1240/mo
$100K Loan, 8.5% 20 years, equal payments of $868/mo</p>
<p>If son #1 can handle this, more power to him. I don't think many new graduates can. No disrespect indented, but could you afford these payments now?</p>
<p>This is oppressive debt, cannot be discharged even in bankruptcy and is so unnecessary. A relative of mine has about $150K in law school loans and can't find a lawyer job in this economy that will come close to allowing her to both make the payments and live indoors. The stress she feels is terrible and she has to work a waitress job at night. There is no other option. </p>
<p>You need to carefully work the math with your son so that he understands what is in store if he goes this route. </p>
<p>As others have said, with a 32 ACT, he should be able to get merit money somewhere very good. </p>
<p>You need to make a budget and check out the thread on schools with good merit aid. If you still live in Illinois, I don't understand why U of Illinois is not a top choice. This will work out fine.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Well for your son in engineering, as you point out, this may be doable. But it will be painful because he'll have less to spend on life than his peers. He will have less home, fewer education options for his future kids and just plain less money. Engineers start at good salaries but they rise slowly and hit a ceiling unless he's an unusual engineer.</p>
<p>What does son 2 want to do? Few majors start at similar salaries to engineers. And grad school is a pretty much necessity for many kids these days. So if DS2 wants to be a doctor, lawyer or businessman, a second, even more costly degree with associated loans will cripple him.</p>
<p>It looks like you got this exact same advice 2 years ago, so by now, you know the drill.</p>
<p>No financial expert would advise this. Not being able to pay back the loans can kill their credit for life. Their wages and tax returns can be taken and any savings too. </p>
<p>I would tell my kids they were crazy to think about this, especially with so many options. And we're not talking Harvard here. But you sound comfortable with this, so what more can we say?</p>
<p>There is another thing to consider regarding S2's health problem. Assume he gets through college, and has $100K debt, what happens if he is unable to work due to those health issues? He has been unable to work while in high school, and the same could cause problems with employment later on. Large debt would make such a situation even worse.</p>
<p>Also, many kids who start out majoring in engineering change their minds. Who knows what kind of salary he will be making after college?</p>
<p>I would suggest making sure that S2 checks out many different colleges in his search, including financial safeties.</p>
<p>University of Illinois is no bargain for in state tuition. Yes it is cheaper than the University
of Wisconsin but only by about 6 grand a year.I think like $14,000 a year which is no deal for in state tuition where as Wisconsin is like $7000. Plus Illinois doesn't have any reprocitity with any states for out of state students .</p>
<p>I am puzzled why you even posted here. Your initial post seemed to imply you are not in favor of child #2 taking on this debt, yet you go on to be very defensive about doing just that when given some very sound, logical arguments against taking out such a huge loan.</p>
<p>Just because it's "hard" to say no to our children doesn't excuse us from doing so if it's in the best interest of the child and family.</p>