<p>Why respond to such obvious ■■■■■ posts?</p>
<p>@applejack/Colene: Was it not clear that I just turned down Cornell? I received admission to Cornell, meaning I applied there, meaning I KNOW it is a good school. However, it is clear that it is not SUPERIOR to schools such as Berkeley, Michigan, Carnegie Mellon, etc. On what basis can someone say that it is superior? If you guys have any sort of reference (which is how the rankings were being used, @NYProspect), then please enlighten us. The fact that this thread exists proves that the line is not so clear-cut between what schools Cornell IS superior to. I’d just like to repeat (meaning I said this before) that Cornell IS obviously a really great school with incredible name recognition, perhaps even beyond Chicago and Duke, etc - which I know and which solidified my decision to apply. But having just researched all of this, and in terms of academic departments, there are many schools that are equally good, if not better. For undergraduate rankings, which I didn’t mention because I was going department-wise, Cornell is 16th. Obviously it falls in the same league as many other schools, and by any standards it’s a great school for being in the Top 20. But there’s lots of other factors to consider as well in making a decision. The point I was trying to make is that Cornell doesn’t just equate to “amazing education” because it’s an Ivy. There’s many other schools that don’t have the Ivy title that are just as good, and even better, according to rankings - which are yes, not the “be-all/end-all” of decision-making, but provide a pretty good reference point. I know Cornell is a good school and I’m not trying to endorse any school over it, all I’m doing is responding to the OP’s question of WHY people think they way they do.</p>
<p>@applejack: Why not Carnegie Mellon? It’s very common for people to apply to Cornell, CMU, and Berkeley, and then finally choose any one out of the 3 (with no identifiable pattern). </p>
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<p>Can you please explain instead of just making generalized statements in an obvious attempt to denounce someone else who doesn’t agree with your opinion? It is clear that you are most likely a Cornell student who is willing to shoot down anyone who doesn’t agree that Cornell is the greatest school ever.</p>
<p>“Dial 9-1-1 for your Wahhhhhmbulance.”</p>
<p>Is it possible nobody in this thread explicitly appreciated this line? So funny! I’m gonna have to use that sometime! Good one, T26E4.</p>
<p>@aangel42 -</p>
<p>I’m looking at this as a teachable moment and won’t take it personally given your current circumstance, but remember that you’re going to be dealing with many people a lot smarter than you’ve yet encountered as you advance through college and life. These simple-minded politics 101 tricks aren’t going to work anymore.</p>
<ol>
<li>You just moved the goalpost of your argument. In fact, you just tried to change the entire field on which your argument is played. Here is what you initially said, and what we all accurately refuted:</li>
</ol>
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</p>
<p>Here is what you just changed your argument to say:
</p>
<p>No one said Cornell is superior to those other schools. I never would have even responded had you made the latter argument. We said that, by any objective measure, Cornell is not inferior to any of the schools you listed, which is what you tried but failed to argue. </p>
<ol>
<li>In fact, I explicitly stated that all of these schools are of the same general quality. You deceptively cut off most of my statement to try and make it seem as though I made an argument I never made. Here is what you tried to claim I said:</li>
</ol>
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</p>
<p>Here is what I actually said:
</p>
<p>I’m sure you can see the difference. You’ve been caught this time, but I truly do hope as you grow you develop a stronger ethical basis for your arguments. You would be in violation of any university’s code of ethics with what you tried to pull here. We have enough of this simple-minded trickery in the world. We need people who are capable of elevating the discourse to do so and justify their acceptance into any of these quality institutions.</p>
<p>The quality of education at any of these schools being discussed is quite similar. Let’s just leave it at that. Good luck in your endeavors.</p>
<p>actually aangel, if you are going by rankings alone (and then again who says USNEWS are the rankings to go by - there are many different rankings and they vary quite substantially.) Anyway, if we are talking USNEWs, then Undergraduate US Universities - Duke is 10th, Northwestern 12th, Cornell 15th(not16) and CMU 23rd. So I don’t know how you can say Cornell is not on the same level as those schools, clearly it is ranked higher than CMU (not that I agree with rankings, just saying because that is YOUR argument). Also, as far as undergrad engineering, Mich is 6th, CMU 8 and Cornell 9 - so are you telling me there is much of a difference??? You are just an arrogant highschooler, and thank God for Cornellians sake that you chose not to go there because students are no where near as elitist as you are.</p>
<p>Ugh. Why does EVERYONE always bash on Cornell? It seriously gets old.</p>
<p>@applejack: I was asking you which fields you were talking about.</p>
<p>Oooh I’ve been caught this time - oops. I don’t really get what I’ve been caught for? The reason I “misquoted” you was to emphasize the point you made about the fields Cornell is better for - what you wrote is clearly visible on this thread and anyone can read it, so why would I deliberately try to be deceptive if it’s right there anyway? You didn’t even answer my question so that was unnecessary I guess. I was not trying to pull some “simple-minded trickery” or come up with some ingenious plan - I was trying to ask you a question based on what you said above. That’s it. No crazy scheme involved here. Don’t really know where you even got that from. “Politics 101 tricks” - what? We’re on a public forum, I’m really not planning out political tricks…</p>
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</p>
<p>You very clearly said:
</p>
<p>So yes, you did indirectly say it is superior to Carnegie Mellon - which is what I was talking about.</p>
<p>Since we’re so into going point by point here, I also said:
</p>
<p>So clearly, I’m not trying to “bash” Cornell and neither am I elitist (what?). It just seems weird that people keep trying to assert that Cornell is so much better than all these other schools. </p>
<p>@NYProspect: please read what I stated above.</p>
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<p>Honestly, I don’t really know what we’re discussing here anymore. I was going department-wise and the point was that many of the schools that you guys are bashing, such as Carnegie Mellon and Michigan and Berkeley, are ranked above Cornell in so many places. It’s really unfounded to do that. I will repeat this AGAIN: I KNOW RANKINGS DON’T MEAN EVERYTHING, and that Cornell being ranked 10th is essentially the same as even the 5th school, but they do mean SOMETHING, and the fact that Michigan, Berkeley, CMU, etc are higher means something as well. So is that really me being elitist or you?</p>
<p>I will repeat AGAIN that I applied to Cornell not based on rankings but because I visited the school many times and I really liked it. I don’t have any personal grudge against Cornell at all. Yes, I did choose Northwestern over it but that’s based on many factors. I’d appreciate if you guys could tolerate someone else’s opinion if it doesn’t agree with yours. There is clearly some basis to what I’m saying and I apologize that I don’t agree that Cornell is the best university ever and that Carnegie Mellon and Berkeley etc. are just nowhere near it in comparison.</p>
<p>What we are arguing here is the fact that YOU said Cornell is inferior to those schools. None of us ever said Cornell was the most amazing school ever - that is not what we are arguing. My problem with your post was that you said Cornell was NOT in the same class - mostly because your argument is based on rankings - where clearly Cornell is closely ranked to most of those and ranked higher than some ( 15th as opposed to CMU. And just because Cornell is 15 and CMU is 23, I still don’t think that means Cornell is better) So where you are getting that Cornell is not in the same league as CMU - I don’t get. That is MY argument with your post. And I think all the schools in question are great schools - I would never say Cornell was better than any of them, nor did I say. I was just arguing that YOU said it is inferior.</p>
<p>aangel42 -</p>
<p>You were caught changing the fundamental premise of your argument, which NYProspect already covered. No one - outside the OP - has even suggested that all these schools aren’t peers. I haven’t seen anyone bash any of them.</p>
<p>If you would like to see where, by the criteria of rankings that you established as the basis of your argument, Cornell is ranked higher in various fields then you’ll just have to look up the rankings for yourself. There’s far too many fields and far too many schools involved in your argument for me to give you a full analysis. </p>
<p>Another poster - colene I believe? - already demonstrated Cornell’s various top 10 rankings across an array of fields, both above (and below) many of the schools you list. To give you just a few examples:</p>
<p>Cornell ranks 7th in Physics while Northwestern and Carnegie Mellon both rank 30th. </p>
<p>In English, Cornell is ranked 7th along with Chicago, directly below Harvard and UPenn and just above Duke at 10th. Northwestern and NYU are at 20th and Carnegie Mellon at 38th.</p>
<p>Likewise, in Public Policy Carnegie Mellon ranks 7th, NYU 13th, and Cornell 24th. </p>
<p>Again, I don’t buy into one magazine’s ever-shifting methodologies but that’s the criteria you established. All these schools have various fields that are stronger and weaker than other comparable schools, which is why they are peers. Cornell is not universally inferior to any of them as you attempted to claim.</p>
<p>EDIT:
By the way, in response to this specific point:
</p>
<p>You again tried to take something I said out of context to make an argument I never made. I don’t know if it’s a reading comprehension issue or willful, but the bottom line is that I was refuting your claim that Carnegie Mellon, Berkeley, Northwestern, etc… are inherently superior to Cornell, which is what you claimed. I didn’t say they are inferior to Cornell. Huge difference.</p>
<p>The truth is:</p>
<p>Many of my D’s friends transferred from Berkeley to Cornell in their sophomore year - because they got guaranteed transfer to Cornell, and they went to their state school for a year then take the advantage to go to Cornell.</p>
<p>And the truth is in California, most of people confused UPenn with Penn State, don’t hear about Northwestern (not to mention knowing where it is), and don’t know U of Chicago is a top school (thought it is a city university).</p>
<p>Ok although this thread has nothing to do with me, due to my messiah complex I feel the need to intervene 
FACT: Cornell is a great school. FACT: CMU, Berkeley, Penn, Duke and so on are also great schools. FACT: Rankings serve a purpose. FACT: Rankings are general indicators of quality, they are not meant to be taken as gospel truth. FACT: The difference between the school ranked 10th on US News, and the school(s) ranked 5th was ONE percentage point. Duke scored 92 points out of a 100, Stanford, MIT, Caltech et all scored 93. Is that a significant difference? I leave you to draw your own conclusions. Similarly the difference between Cornell and CMU for instance is so irrelevant that it does not merit such a vociferous debate. Argue about things that actually matter, ethical dilemmas, political views etc. Don’t waste your time thinking about whether Cornell is better than Princeton or Caltech is better than CMU. Trust me, I know what it feels like to become obsessed with these rankings, and in case your wondering, its not a pleasant feeling. So my advice to the fine people on this board, is this “go out and enjoy yourself, stop making frivolous comparisons between elite schools” I believe you will find that your new attitude proves to be therapeutic and liberating. Cheers :)</p>
<p>Majoreco: I live in Houston and nobody here aspires to be a Ricer! I have two friends going there next year and they will just get a pat on the back because it’s a decent school. The smarter kids usually go to the Ivies, Vandy, UVa, Stanford, etc., without even considering Rice. Actually, two kids from that went to my school last year go to Cornell now. Typically, they would consider HYP or Dartmouth over Cornell. Otherwise, they would look to non-Ivies My cousins live in Dallas and the situation is the same there. I do, however, agree that the differences are marginal.</p>
<p>Also, prestige definitely does not correlate to rankings! I would say Harvard is the most prestigious school in America just because of its massive ego and the fact that everyone has heard of it, but it isn’t always number one in rankings.</p>
<p>As a Rice alum, you might think I would find this thread insulting, but if anything it’s making me lose respect for Cornell, which is impressive considering I have family ties to the school.</p>
<p>Does it really matter…? If you go to pretty much every school you guys have listed off on this thread you’re going to probably have a job in a down economy and a decent pay at that (based off your major) OR you’re going to a good grad school. Cornell as well as Berk, Mich, Rice, all of these schools give you the tools necessary to succeed in life, its not a matter of which is better, it comes down to how far the student is willing to go and how hard they’re willing to push. This applies to (almost) all colleges in the world.</p>
<p>Where’s your pride Cornellians? Comparing Cornell to Michigan and UCLA is a complete joke. Those schools have medical school acceptance rates that hover just slightly above the national average and most of their pre law students go to Third Tier Law Schools.</p>
<p>Check these links out and tell me if you really want to compare the quality of education at Cornell to these two state schools.</p>
<p>[College</a> of Literature, Science, and the Arts : Students](<a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/advising/advisor/prelaw/um_stats]College”>http://www.lsa.umich.edu/advising/advisor/prelaw/um_stats)
[Law</a> School Admissions Statistics For UCLA Graduates](<a href=“http://career.ucla.edu/Students/gradprofschcounseling/lawschooladmissionsstatisticsforuclagraduates]Law”>http://career.ucla.edu/Students/gradprofschcounseling/lawschooladmissionsstatisticsforuclagraduates)</p>
<p>You don’t graduate from Cornell and go to Loyola or University of San Francisco Law School.</p>
<p>“As a Rice alum, you might think I would find this thread insulting, but if anything it’s making me lose respect for Cornell, which is impressive considering I have family ties to the school.”</p>
<p>Right, because the current Cornellians students/alumni are totally the ones doing the attacking (sarcasm intended). If we intrude on your school’s forum and attack its integrity it would make you lose respect for your school too right? If anything, I’d say you people have ulterior motives.</p>
<p>And yeah, there’s Cornell prefrosh like the poster above me who are biased. But then again they aren’t representative of the school, and neither are the ■■■■■ prefroshes (aangel) from other schools.</p>
<p>
That’s basically the entirety of the OP, which is then mostly followed by a bunch of hand-wringing about whether or not Cornell gets enough respect. Admittedly I skimmed quite a few of the posts in here, but I didn’t feel the overall problem was outsiders coming in and attacking Cornell.</p>
<p>In any case, I didn’t mean for my statement about losing respect for the school to be taken at face value. I try not to let the actions of a few rankings-obsessed posters on this board affect my opinion on any university, because for the most part the people I actually meet don’t share those hang-ups.</p>
<p>Well, the thing is that the OP was a prefrosh and many inflammatory posters are prefrosh too. They are in no way representative of the colleges. Let bygones be bygones - the current students / alumni don’t think that at all, after being exposed to the real world. That goes for those of other schools as well. Progress, reserve your ideas of distributing “respect” until you go to college and see the real world, mkay? Unlike what prefrosh think, nobody goes around carrying a copy of school rankings to judge the people they meet.</p>
<p>-Saying this as a Cornell freshman.</p>
<p>I agree with Colene. I looked at the rankings when I was a prefrosh. In my 4 years at Cornell, I never gave a single thought to rankings. The only reason I was even aware that the rankings had changed (or not) was when the Cornell Daily Sun reported on it. Basically read the article, gave a “hmmm” reaction, and stopped caring for the other 23.99 hours of the day. </p>
<p>When you are actually in college, what’s important to you (and most people) isnot at all related to rankings. It’s funny; on these CC forums, rankings get brought up a lot. At school, literally never had a single discussion about them with anybody. I understand too; on these forums, many prefrosh are trying to figure out where they want to go to school and comparing schools is very difficult. </p>
<p>Once you’re in college though, you can probably see relative differences between Top Tier, Middle Tier, and Low Tier schools, but any variation within any given tier is going to be extraordinarily subjective based on the individual student. Within the top tier, Cornell may be better than Harvard for some students and worse for others. Maybe Top Tier school X ranked 20 has a super program XYZ ranked 1, but for you as an individual, Top Tier school Y is better which is ranked 15 and with their XYZ program ranked 12. Maybe the XYZ program at school Y has that one special professor who you really connect with or has a student organization with some incredible people that become close friends AND share academic interests with you. Or maybe school Y has amazing program PQR which isn’t even ranked, but you took a class, loved it, and decided to switch your major. Or a thousand other reasons…</p>