What is it about Notre Dame that people love?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I posted this in the Notre Dame forum but would also like to get some opinions in this forum from those who are familiar with Notre Dame.</p>

<p>I am a senior who is currently wrapping up the school year at a Catholic HS. This year I applied to many college, Notre Dame not being one of them, and after receiving all my decisions I decided to choose UCLA (OOS) over UVa (OOS), University of Michigan (OOS), Johns Hopkins, Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, New York University, UNC (OOS), and a few other schools. I won't go into detail as to why I chose UCLA over these other schools, but it just occurred to me that while searching for which colleges to apply to, Notre Dame was not in my radar and I completely overlooked it. It might be because I went to Catholic HS and desired a change, but anyways, today I was discussing college stuff with one of my friends (junior) and shes absolutely obsessed with both Notre Dame and UCLA. I told her to apply to both and that she should really look into UCLA because its a wonderful institution. However, while speaking to her, I could feel that she also had a strong attachment to Notre Dame. Since I didn't do any research on Notre Dame (because I didn't apply) I didn't have much to tell her about the school. So I guess my question to you guys is: why is Notre Dame such a great school? At this moment I kind of regret not applying to Notre Dame since I do enjoy being in a Catholic environment, but as of now I don't see how one can be obsessed with both Notre Dame and UCLA as I am pretty sure they are quite disparate schools. Personally, I don't think I would have chosen Notre Dame over UCLA if I had gotten in but can you guys tell me why you choose Notre Dame over your other schools or why you considered the school in the first place? Would any of you choose UCLA over Notre Dame? Appreciate the help.</p>

2

<p>What’s not to love about Notre Dame?</p>

<p>And yeah, I would chose it over UCLA in a heartbeat. In fact ND is a Top 5 “dream school” among parents.</p>

<p>[University</a> a ‘dream school’ for parents - News](<a href=“http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2009/04/21/News/University.A.dream.School.For.Parents-3718911.shtml]University”>http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2009/04/21/News/University.A.dream.School.For.Parents-3718911.shtml)</p>

3

<p>Notre Dame is a niche school for students who really want to be part of a Catholic campus. Notre Dame is for Catholics what Caltech is for Science lovers, MIT is for Engineers, Wharton is for Business students, etc
 </p>

<p>As osucowboys points out, what’s not to like? The Notre Dame campus is pretty, it is a top ranked university, it has a loyal and strong alumni network and it has a great athletic tradition. Of course, the same thing can be said of many other universities, including Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, Michigan, Stanford, UCLA, UNC, USC and UVa to name a few. However, for some Catholics (not all mind you
and certainly not me), Notre Dame is considered the ideal university.</p>

<p>This said, you are quite right in assuming that Notre Dame and UCLA are totally different. If you are happy with UCLA, there is a good chance you would not have liked Notre Dame.</p>

4

<p>Notre Dame is not just a school for Catholics, though. It does have a huge Catholic population, but they’re not the only ones there. I grew up loving Notre Dame, in part due to various family connections. The school has an incredible spirit, which you can really feel just by being around the campus. I’ve never been to a Notre Dame football game, but I imagine it is a tremendous experience.</p>

<p>I was accepted to and almost attended Notre Dame, but ended up choosing Rice for a number of reasons after getting off of the waitlist. I still have a great deal of respect and admiration for Notre Dame. I think it’s truly an amazing place that really captures the hearts of students and community members alike.</p>

5

<p>May I be cynical here?</p>

<p>1) ND is Catholic, which means a lot of Catholic parents love it. Whatever you do there. You may be a devout Catholic or an equally devout non-believer, but either way, some parents will be proud to tell their friends, relations, and parish priest that you’re going to Notre Dame. For some, this is an opportunity to live out their faith. For others, it’s license to live the life they choose exempt from parental disapproval. Pretty good deal either way.</p>

<p>2) It’s one of a dozen or fewer schools with instant national name recognition. Right up there with Harvard and Yale, certainly rivaling Princeton and Stanford, probably stronger than any other Ivy or any Big Ten or PAC 10 school, far surpassing any other Catholic school. That opens doors, gets you interviews, turns heads. Not to be dismissed.</p>

<p>3) It’s got a gorgeous campus which often seals the deal for people already largely persuaded by #1 and #2.</p>

<p>4) It’s got a strong and loyal alumni network, probably disproportionately in the Midwest and centering on Chicago, that opens additional doors.</p>

<p>5) It’s got an ethnic slant that provides additional opportunities. Certainly among Irish-Americans, to have a top-ranking school whose teams are known as “the Irish” or “the Fighting Irish” is a source of ethnic pride. But other predominantly Catholic ethnicities who have sent generations of sons and, more recently, daughters to ND feel a similar pride. Among Poles in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Detroit, for example, the name is golden.</p>

<p>6) It’s got a very good faculty who, on their own, won’t win any awards; you’re not likely to find a lot of intellectual breakthroughs emanating from Notre Dame. But given the need to teach outstanding students, they’ll rise to the teaching occasion and teach effectively what needs to be taught.</p>

<p>7) It’s got a strong “undergraduate focus”–which is partly just a way of saying that, since their research and graduate programs are not especially competitive with those of the top research universities, the faculty and administration elect to focus their efforts on undergraduates. And good for the undergraduates. There are actually very few major universities in this position. It’s the defining feature of LACs. Among schools listed as “national universities” by US News, Dartmouth comes prominently to mind. Possibly Brown, though many of its graduate programs are actually quite strong. Possibly Emory, certainly Georgetown, certainly Wake Forest. But at its level, ND is kind of a category-buster. A positive, I guess. </p>

<p>8) Because of #1 through #7 above, if you go to ND as an undergrad you’ll have lots if opportunities. Which, after all, is a lot of what it’s all about.</p>

6

<p>bclintonk: You hit on a great truth when you mentioned “for some it is an opportunity to live our their faith”. Notre Dame, and all Catholic schools in general (H.S. and university) do often inspire great loyalty from their fans and alumni. It is hard to describe the devotion that I often see from other Catholics to their alma maters. I went to public schools for all my education, but my children have only gone to Catholic schools and the difference is remarkable in terms of loyalty to their schools. The ability to integrate faith with education is a powerful experience for many. Notre Dame is the most well known example, but graduates from other Catholic Colleges are often just as intense about their schools as well.</p>

7

<p>alex,
There you go again. Notre Dame a niche school?? LOL. Nice try at marginalization. Would you consider a state school with a high percentage of IS students to be a niche school? Didn’t think so. </p>

<p>collegeundergrad,
Among the Top 20 national universities, ND is the most geographically diverse with strong numbers coming from every region of the country, eg, only 40% of its students hail from the Midwest (by comparison, Northwestern has 43% from the Midwest and U Michigan has over 75%). </p>

<p>As for ND’s reputation, it is far, far stronger outside of the world of academia than it is within. Academia is a hostile place for people and schools that have any association with religion, so unless you intend to pursue a career in academia, don’t waste your breadth looking to academic elites for a fair assessment of the school. The fact is that the school has a strong commitment to undergraduate teaching and its students are among the most well-prepared, and the most sought-after, graduates of any college in the country. The real world knows the value of ND and the quality of its students/graduates. </p>

<p>The ND brand carries well into every region of the country with near-universal recognition (except perhaps from jealous competitors) and there is a tremendous amount to respect about the school.<br>

  1. The student body is highly talented as 71% were in the top 5% of their HS graduating class and the ACT 25/75 score is 31-34 (better than Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Columbia, U Chicago, etc.).<br>
  2. Notre Dame students graduate at a 6-year rate of 95% which is only surpassed by two national universities (Harvard at 97% and Yale at 96%).<br>
  3. And the passion that ND grads have for their school is nearly unmatched among national universities with a 51% Alumni Giving rate (3rd in the USA and bested only by Princeton and Dartmouth). </p>

<p>Notre Dame is woefully underrated by many on CC who attempt to deride the school as a “niche” college. Notre Dame is a premier college choice for students who want 1) highly talented classmates, 2) manageable classroom settings, 3) faculty who are committed to teaching, and 4) vast resources that are mostly dedicated to the benefit of undergraduates. And you get all of this on a gorgeous campus with a community and school spirit and a lifelong devotion that is unmatched by virtually any other college in America.</p>

8

<p>Hawkette, Notre Dame is a niche school. 80%-85% of its students are Catholic. State schools are mostly made of in-state students because they are expected to by the state and because in-state students get to attend at a fraction of the price. Notre Dame is private. Students who go there select it primarily because it is Catholic. </p>

<p>At any rate, I don’t see how I marginalized Notre Dame. I compared it to Caltech, MIT and Wharton! My exact statement was:</p>

<p>“As osucowboys points out, what’s not to like? The Notre Dame campus is pretty, it is a top ranked university, it has a loyal and strong alumni network and it has a great athletic tradition. Of course, the same thing can be said of many other universities, including Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, Michigan, Stanford, UCLA, UNC, USC and UVa to name a few. However, for some Catholics (not all mind you
and certainly not me), Notre Dame is considered the ideal university.”</p>

<p>How does that qualify as marginalizing Notre Dame? I would not accuse others of marginalizing universities Hawkette.</p>

9

<p>alex,
Notre Dame is about so much that to define it as a niche school that has appeal only to students of a single faith is a sad mischaracterization. It’s far from a niche school and has much to offer students, Catholic or not. Furthermore, Catholics as a group have a great diversity of people as well, probably even more than you might find in the population of a typical Midwestern state. </p>

<p>I think you’re just mad that ND football beat Michigan last year by 18 points
and that they’re probably going to do it again this year
by an even larger margin. :)</p>

10

<p>Hawkette, I am Catholic, and we are a relatively homogeneous group where faith and beliefs are concerned. Anybody who says Catholics are diverse knows nothing about us. We may come from different backgrounds and races/nationalities, but our faith is pretty well defined and we tend to approach life in a pretty similar way. </p>

<p>Secondly, Notre Dame appeals to, in 90% of the cases, only Catholics and precicely because it is Catholic. That makes it a niche school. </p>

<p>And what does Notre Dame having much to offer have to do with whether it is a niche school or not? Last I checked, MIT and Caltech had much to offer too. Did I say that Notre Dame did not have much to offer or that non-Catholics aren’t welcome there? </p>

<p>Finally, Michigan losing to Notre Dame last year
and most likely next year, has nothing to do with my statement. I never allow personal sentiment or loyalty to any university cloud my judgement. When writing on this forum, I am 100% neutral at all times, even when it comes to Michigan or Cornell. Michigan and Notre Dame both have excellent football traditions and I love the fact that we have a great rivalry. I am not going to go into discussing out respective football programs because that would be off-topic.</p>

11

<p>I do think it is an exaggeration when it come to ND attraction to the Catholic population as a whole, I even read one ND alum on bleacherreport state the success or failure of the football team impacts the Catholic faith lol. Being raised Catholic in Virginia I can say that ND isnt even on the map as far as dream schools for my friends and I. UVA an Tech were by far the most popular choice of school for most of my friends at church. And when it came to the sports side Georgetown was my Catholic school of choice to root for.</p>

<p>Even my moms family, devout Catholics from NW Indiana had little interest in ND (probably having to do with the fact that they knew they couldn’t afford it), and are split between IU and Purdue.</p>

12

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<p>Oh really now? I’m also a Catholic, and I won’t be ashamed to say that I am a pretty liberal person, and pretty liberal in my social life. Also pretty accepting of non-Catholic/non-Christian friends of mine. I don’t know what you’re implying, but I’ll say that we’re a very diverse bunch of people! I live in the Southwest (the Dallas area) and I’m white, but I don’t feel like there’s a real majority
demographically. The thing that unites us is our faith
we like nice hymns, Gregorian chant, the style of the mass, we like the focus on the Virgin Mary, and we like the teachings that advocate forgiveness and not the hellfire and damnation crap you get elsewhere.</p>

<p>When it comes to politics I think the Church is very misunderstood. Yes, it harbors illegal immigrants (which I think is great!). BUT a lot of Catholics oppose illegal immigration. Yes, it opposes gay marriage. BUT probably most Catholics are actually Democrats and support gay rights. Yes, it opposes abortion. BUT a lot of Catholics interpret the concept of when life begins on their own (for me I interpret it as when a person knows they are loved). And so on. And for the record I very seriously doubt that 80-85% of ND is Catholic. It’s obviously going to be the most-represented religion, but I know it isn’t total domination.</p>

13

<p>alex,
It’s pretty funny and even more illuminating that you think you’re the only one with insights into the Catholic world and history and mindset. LOL. You’re not and, unless you work for the Vatican, you’re certainly not a spokesman for the faith. Catholics represent 25% of the US population, are well dispersed throughout all regions of the USA and there is a great variety of people within the faith, far more than in several other major US religions. In the USA, Catholicism is not a homogenous monolith and American Catholics represent only 50% of all Catholics worldwide which is an even more diverse group. </p>

<p>As for your claims of neutrality in university loyalties and posting activities, what poppycock. You constantly express opinions as do I and virtually everyone else on CC. Those opinions are not facts; they are opinions. I may present a lot of objective facts to support my arguments, but I certainly have opinions and will share them frequently. All of our opinions and biases have been formed by a great variety of personal factors, including where one went to college (or didn’t go), where one lives or has lived, family situations/connections, ethnic/religious status, work history, personal interests, individual social values, political opinion and on and on and on. Your idea of neutrality is just that
it is your idea of neutrality. But it is based on certain defaults and that is frequently the source of our disagreements. </p>

<p>IMO, we disagree
often
primarily because we see universities through different prisms and consequently, we accord value to different things. You support the institutional, Establishment view and use the elite insiders as your guideposts and affirmation in judging the quality of a college. My prism is that of the student and the actual experience that he or she will have in and out of the classroom at ABC College and how this translates to employers and the real world following college. </p>

<p>Notre Dame is a good example of our difference. For undergraduate experience, I would easily place the school above most of its more ballyhooed competitors with strong research reputations. You would value the reverse. Neither of us is automatically right, but for an individual student, one or the other of us could be absolutely correct. </p>

<p>osu,
Well said and I certainly agree with much of your comment, but alex is accurate in his statement that ND is a little over 80% Catholic. That is a fact that can be found on ND’s website.</p>

14

<p>osucowboys, when I was in college back in 1992, Notre Dame was exactly 88% Catholic. That was from a brochure I got from the University back when I was applying to college. Times have changed and I am willing to accept that it has dropped a little, but the large marjority was still Catholic.</p>

15

<p>“I do think it is an exaggeration when it come to ND attraction to the Catholic population as a whole
”</p>

<p>MSC261, I agree. My exact words were:</p>

<p>“However, for some Catholics (not all mind you
and certainly not me), Notre Dame is considered the ideal university.”</p>

<p>I never said all Catholics want to attend Notre Dame.</p>

<p>Hawkette, I did not comment on Notre Dame’s academic excellence only to say that it is excellent. I compared ND to schools like Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, Michigan, UCLA, UNC, USC and UVa. I said it was a niche school, just as Caltech, MIT and Wharton" are niche schools. In no way did I downplay the excellence of the institution or “marginalize” it.</p>

16

<p>On the way from New Jersey to Chicago to visit Northwestern during admitted student days we decided to spend the night in South Bend so that we could do a quick tour of Notre Dame before heading up the Northwestern. Granted it was a Sunday Morning about 9:20 - 10:00, but there was not a soul onsite. NO ONE. Well, there were some janitors cleaning up debris around campus. We did like the Chapel and the Mural but other than that I thought the entire campus was rather dull. The Architecture from building to building was exactly the same, using the same lines and same brick. I mean there were slight differences, but I always thought ND was going to be this absolutley breathtaking campus and it just was not. Just my honest assessment.</p>

17

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<p>False. Hawkette, your continual libellous bashing of academics and academia is appalling. Look, I’ve been an academic for many years, and before that spent many years in elite academic institutions, both public and private, as an undergraduate and graduate student. I’ve known hundreds, probably thousands of academics, many quite well. Some of my dearest friends are academics. Very, very few of them fit the stereotype you portray here of anti-religious bigots. Many are people of faith themselves—of many different faiths. They’re treated no differently from non-believers; they’re respected for their intellectual and educational contributions, and their religious convictions are their own affair. There is no “hostility” towards them. Indeed, as a group, academics are probably the most ardent defenders of freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, and freedom of thought of any identifiable group in America. True, there is probably a higher percentage of non-believers than in the population as a whole. But my colleagues and I are not bigots. And I think you owe all of academia an apology for this outrageous smear.</p>

18

<p>Funny kleibo, but I felt the exact same way you did when I first visited Notre Dame. I went back there again a couple of years ago, and I felt the exact same way I did the first time I went. I just don’t get the awe some people experience when they see the campus. To me it’s just nothing very special.</p>

19

<p>Schools like ND and Duke which have revered sports programs are all overrepresented naturally in USNews. How many intellectuals come out of ND and Duke? Not many. How many come out of Caltech, Harvey Mudd, MIT, and UChicago? Too many to mention. ND, academically is so overrated that it is out of proportion. I interned at Citigroup, and I met many different types of people, maybe over 100, and not a single one was from ND. This is just one man’s opinion, but I feel like college rankings institutions need to stop calculating fluff into their rankings. Fluff like sports, and others.</p>

20

<p>On what basis do you make the claim that “not many” intellectuals come out of Notre Dame? How many ND grads have you met? I mean, let’s be honest here: real “intellectuals” don’t work for Citigroup.</p>