<p>I wonder whether ND is better or not than the nation's top public school like ucberkeley,umich,UCLA? Can anyone give me some ideas?</p>
<p>well first off, i can tell you that the sense of community is greater than any other school in the country, especially in comparison to public schools</p>
<p>secondly, i think that ND allows you and encourages you to become more in touch with your spiritual self than any other school</p>
<p>and finally, ND will allow you to get an education not just so that you are able to be successful in your future but also so that you come out with a set of ethics that you are determined to follow and will not violate (something that i think most other schools leave out)</p>
<p>p.s. the school spirit of ND is leaps and bounds ahead of those schools too (im from CA so i definitely can compare it to UCLA and Cal, Mich may be a bit closer in this aspect but not the same in terms of community)</p>
<p>Huge Alumni Base which can lead to wonderful job ops!</p>
<p>Dear Michaellyd,</p>
<p>All the UC’s except Berkeley are on the quarter system which means that every quarter is a rat race trying to jam a lot of material in a very short time. As a freshman, many classes are huge and dealing with the bureaucracy can be overwhelming. Many students get an excellent education there but it’s much more of a struggle than it is at ND. ND is about a third of the size of many of the UC’s and has a much better support system built in. Also, I think that their emphasis is on their undergraduate program. Most of the better known UC’s have excellent graduate programs and their undergraduates are not as nurtured. There are excellent opportunities at these large state schools but you need to have a very aggressive, self-assured personality to thrive there.</p>
<p>ND has a much stronger core curriculum: 2 semesters of theology, 2 of philosophy, math, history, fine arts, etc. </p>
<p>Being required to take philosophy really opened up my D’s world in a way that her peers at UC Berkely and U Wash did not see their first semester/quarter. </p>
<p>It really, really depends on your major and what you want to do, but in general, especially for technical majors like engineering, you will find that ND will develop your higher level thinking skills and push you to develop writing and presentation skills that you may not have to work on much in a public university. I think there is more emphasis on the “well rounded” or “whole person” than in many public programs.</p>
<p>better sense of community, by far. it came down between ucla and nd for me last year, but then i realized: would i rather go to a school where i’m just a number, where if i vanished off the face of the earth, no one would know? or a tight-knit campus with a fabulous support system? i definitely don’t regret my choice.</p>
<p>I would say it is definitely on par with those schools. Not above or below, on par. In the morals dept., the other schools are publics, so they have no theology requirements, etc. So I guess ND is ahead of them in that regard, in the spiritual sense. However, the other schools are probably more open to diverse religious backgrounds, etc.</p>
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<p>I, too, am from CA, and have a brother at Cal. I can tell you that they have an enormous sense of school pride up there. We tried ordering season fb tix earlier this year. They went on sale at 8 am, and by 8:45 am they were already sold out. The Cal-SC tix were sold out in 1/2 hour. IDK about UCLA, but I have several friends who attend and always come home wearing Bruins gear. And Michigan has a school spirit legacy that is virtually unparalleled in many areas. The larger public schools do not, as my brother says, “take you by the hand and lead you to the promised land.” Thus, you are forced to advance intellectually and socially at a sometimes alarming rate. This increases independence, though, depending on how you wish to interpret it. It all comes down to what you are comfortable with. Notre Dame really emphasizes that the value of an education lies in an education in values, something I really love about the university. The other schools put greater emphasis on diversity and learning how to stand out among thousands of like-minded peers. You will not find a more elite crop of schools, between UM, Cal, UCLA, and ND, anywhere in the country.</p>
<p>Just as a point of reference, you can’t buy ND season tickets. You pay (refundable) to be in a lottery for a chance to go to one game. Unless you are a student, then you can buy season tickets, but don’t think about reselling them, they have you name on them and you must show ID.</p>
<p>One difference is that Notre Dame draws more geographic diversity among undergrads than the state schools. This makes the family seem much larger even if it isn’t in absolute numbers. For example, going to New York, yeah know some people up there; going to Milan? I know a place to stay; I have two roomates from Texas, one from Virginia, one from Kenya, one from Minnesota, St. Louis, Salt Lake, Maryland, Denver. No, we don’t live in a converted single, we have a 12-man with 11 guys in it.</p>
<p>More undergrad focus too I believe; I don’t have to sit in huge lecture hall like my friends at UCs. I had dinner at three professor’s houses last semester, including Thanksgiving. I’m not special they just care about their students. Office hours at Reckers or LaFortune, aren’t strange to me any more.</p>
<p>State flagship gets the advantage in cost, but it’s still expensive. I often think about my decision to balk at Cal, but I know that ND was the right choice.</p>
<p>I should also note that in general the music taste of Notre Dame is much better than that of California. I’ve had this discussion with friends back home and they envy me, even if I had to buy my first winter jacket (tip: go to Burlington Coat Factory in a back corner somewhere for the best and least expensive stuff)</p>
<p>haha, I know ND doesn’t offer season tix, i was talkin about Cal. But you are right about the geographic diversity thing, publics are req’d to take a large % from in-state, so they can’t draw as many from all over the country as ND.</p>
<p>“I should also note that in general the music taste of Notre Dame is much better than that of California.”</p>
<p>^^LOL</p>
<p>That music thing is true.</p>
<p>And the point of reference was to show that ND tickets are equally as difficult to come by.</p>
<p>Oh I wasn’t doubting that lol, I was simply saying that the other schools the OP mentioned have very strong school spirit/pride as well.</p>
<p>vc08- well they may, but not in the % of student body that ND does</p>
<p>when you think how big Cal and UCLA are compared to ND, ND has about the same number of students attend games with about 14,000 less students at the school</p>
<p>ND is definitely a more spirited school overall… i would say michigan is the public school closest to having the same student school spirit as ND but it’s still not extremely close</p>
<p>True, that’s bc the other 14,000 students at Cal are busy running for Congress.</p>
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<p>haha, of course not, you go to Notre Dame. Michigan isn’t extremely close to ND in anything in your eyes.</p>
<p>I should add, Michigan has the largest living alumni base in the world. The SD alumni club guarantees scholarships to every student who chooses to attend. Michigan holds the record for most consecutive sold-out games (in a stadium capacity larger than ND’s, mind you). A PE teacher at our school has the block “M” tattooed on her back (no school spirit???) ;)</p>
<p>Now believe me, I love ND, it’s my first choice school. And I truly believe it gives its students a wonderful, unique, inspiring experience. But at least give credit where credit is due; and if you aren’t familiar with other schools, don’t make falicious assumptions.</p>
<p>vc08- i have to disagree with you again… first of all, lets not take shots saying “oh, well Cal has people running for Congress”</p>
<p>ND does too actually. and i don’t think you are understanding what i am saying about school spirit. i’m not talkin about individual instances. i’m sure there’s plenty of people with ND tattoos on their back too (okay, maybe we don’t have as much ink in our bodies, but who wants that anyway).</p>
<p>i, btw, just said that Michigan has great spirit. So, while you try to make me sound like i’m exaggerating and saying that Michigan has no school spirit, i am not saying that at all.</p>
<p>all i have to say is that Notre Dame certainly has a greater PERCENTAGE of students interested</p>
<p>and for your stadium fact, remember, ND has about 14,000 less students each year (so when you consider alumni, remember that although Michigan has a bigger stadium, they also have many more people to have gone there)</p>
<p>finally, ND is considered to have one of the best, if not the best, alumni network in the nation</p>
<p>maybe you need to stop trying to making my points look bad by exaggerating what i am saying</p>
<p>and yes, of course i am biased. but i think i have credit where credit is due. i said Michigan has great school spirit, but by percentage, i think ND has more</p>
<p>just one addition, you can usually tell what kind of students a college has by looking at the students going from your school and schools around you</p>
<p>and since i’m from northern california where tons of people go to cal and UCLA, i can assure you that the people going to ND (and yes, i know a lot of them) have a ton more school spirit than those going to Cal or UCLA</p>
<p>now, sure, there are some students going to cal and ucla with TREMENDOUS school spirit, but ND consistently has people who are much more passionate</p>
<p>lol, dude, chill.</p>
<p>I was referencing the massive TIME magazine article with a featured cover story on Berkeley students this week, and on how they’re bringing the vote back to young people. I think most would agree that political activism is probably more prevalent on Berkeley’s campus than perhaps anywhere in the nation, including ND. After all, the Vietnam protests and Free Speech movement had to start somewhere, didn’t they? It is definitely not meant as a one-up to ND, UCLA, Michigan, or anywhere else, it’s simply a response to your one-up on how ND has far superior crowds at games. And I gave you the honest reason why: Berkeley students (generally speaking) value school and politics more than football; they’d rather intern at Obama’s bay area headquarters than watch Cal demolish Tennessee. Taken into consideration, it’s amazing that they get 73,000 people a game.</p>
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<p>And I’m telling you that “extremely” is a very big statement to make. You think I’m exaggerating? Those words didn’t come out of my mouth! To me, UC Riverside is not “extremely” close. Regarding UCLA, UCB, ND, and Michigan, they are very close. In fact, in Princeton Review’s rankings, ND ranks #2 in “students pack the stadiums”, and Michigan ranks #7. Sounds pretty close to me, considering they rank 366 colleges.</p>
<p>And I never doubted ND’s alumni network. They have an excellent reputation. But so do Michigan, UCB, and UCLA. </p>
<p>I am very proud of Notre Dame, and to even be considered for admission is a dream come true. But I also understand the hard work that others have gone through to get to their dream schools. So, though not always the one I would prefer, I try to respect those institutions and admire their hardworking student body and storied tradition, especially at such elite schools as Berkeley, Michigan, and UCLA.</p>
<p>I really hope your superiority complex isn’t the prevailing attitude at Notre Dame. Pride is one thing, wishing absolute dominance in all aspects when it simply isn’t there, that’s quite another.</p>
<p>Thanks guys (especially vc08 bobbyC) for so many replies, I was admitted to COE of Michigan. I planned to study ME or Operation Engineering, maybe undecided now, but anyway undergrad should be engineering. I also hope I can be admitted to Ross in the second year to pursue a BBA degree in Michigan. So for my situation, is it better for me to choose U.mich over ND? Another question, between u.mich and ND, which has a better outlook on my career stuff? BTW, does school spirit matter that much?</p>
<p>Yes, if you hope to attend Ross, it is definitely best to go for Michigan, where your advisor will immediately begin to put you on the right path. Michigan also has a better engineering program (while ND tends to be better in the liberal arts areas, Michigan is a world renowned sci/research school). So for your situation, I would say Michigan fits your program/needs better.</p>
<p>Both schools will look great on a resume, internationally Michigan is more renowned, but since you probably won’t live/work outside the US, both are excellent.</p>
<p>School spirit matters, because it encourages alumni connections, community feel, etc., but these two are so close there really isn’t a difference, IMO.</p>
<p>Hope that helped, and good luck!</p>
<p>okay, well while i try to make peace with vc08, i just want to add this</p>
<p>while i don’t know a lot about science because i havn’t been interested, i know ND just built a new science building that is supposed to be amazing but i will concede to vc08 on this point because i really do not know much about it</p>
<p>however, for business, ND and Michigan are right together (ND was ahead 2 years ago, now Mich moved ahead this year)</p>
<p>i think ND is more based on (like vc08) said- the ethical and liberal arts part of business whereas michigan will focus more on just giving you the material you need to know</p>
<p>also, i think internationally and nationally both are respected equally for jobs and both look awesome</p>
<p>and yes, if school spirit does not matter to you i think vc08 and i could at least agree these schools are filled with people who will make you passionate for your school</p>
<p>yes to the last point vc08?</p>