What is the best school that I am able to get in? My dream school is the top 30s like NYU

Graduate School
1

… but I am not picky.
I just want to know what is the best school I am able to get into so I don’t waste money applying because I am a “poor” person. Actually, it is due to circumstances that my mother is very uptight about money. We earn enough but recently one of my family members have cancer so that’s where all the money is going and I can’t waste any money. Please advise me based on my stats where I can apply to. I’m not very optimistic. Apparently, the GRE scores posted online is “fake”, and NUS school ranking is also fake. It is still viewed as worse than China universities despite the supposed high rankings.

Stats:
Female, 22, 4 internship experiences in Writing, marketing, research and private equity. From Singapore, studied Business but I am interested in courses like astronomy, archeology, quirky things that only America has. Definitely not applying to MBA or medicine those too prestigious ones.
Point of a masters: hope to work in interesting companies like Disney, Mars.
GRE of 331+5
Clubs: not many prestigious clubs or leadership roles.
Recommendation letters: average, just say I’m a good and hardworking person.
GPA: terrible. 3.3/5, but only because 1. We have a strict bell curve system where only top 2.5% gets A+, top 2.5-7% gets A, top 7-15% gets A-, top 15-25% gets B+, top 25-50% gets B. B is average. 2. 35% of the marks come from class participation and I’m not even called out of 60 people raising hands. 3. I hated my course as it is really boring and difficult. Everybody just want to earn a lot of money and work in banks.
I was actually from the top high school last time, my IQ is not bad either, so I am not a retard.
Highlights: Language, music is my forte, if it counts.

2

The good news: Schools will take significant medical expenses into account when calculating your financial need. I don’t know how financial aid will be for international applicants at the graduate level, so this may not be enough, but it’ll help.

The bad news: Average (grades) + average (recommendations) + average (internships) will rarely mean admission to a top 30 school. Your school’s bell curve system and its lack of fit with your interests won’t excuse bad grades. Statements like this…

…are to be avoided at all costs, because you come off as arrogant and not the sort of person most colleges would want on their campus.

3

“my IQ is not bad either, so I am not a retard.” LOl I cut and pasted your expression, went to the bottom of the page and now see that NotVerySmart did the same thing. Well we simply don’t talk that way here in the US. It is demeaning to people who have disabilities. And I don’t mean such language isn’t used in “polite company”, I mean it is so deeply offensive it isn’t used period.

4

Not only do you come off as arrogant, but i think the thing about the bell curve works against you, it provides more evidence that you are a very average student. On top of this, as an international student it is really hard to get into a top 30 school. I don’t think you would get into one with those stats as a domestic student either.
Astronomy and archaeology are not only studied in the US, i am sure you could find a very good school with your grades, but top 30 looks doubtful. You could always go to a college for a year, get good grades, and transfer.
Good Luck

5

Hi,

I do not mean to sound arrogant but I just want to prove that I can make it through graduate school. I only did badly because I was studying something I hate and something I’m bad at. In the past, I loved the subjects and I did very well indeed, my country says I am the top 10% of my age group nation-wide (they send these information to everyone).

6

Hi applicantcor,

It is my dream to study in the US. It sounds weird but somehow it matters to me.
Well if top 30 looks doubtful, then what can I apply? Top 50? I’m certainly not rich enough to apply to 50 schools, at most 1 or 2. I mean it would be nice to go to prestigious schools but I’m happy if I can go anywhere.
Thanks for your advice. It is hard to explain but I really know that deep down, I will be a good outstanding student if I was given a chance. I mean, I feel that the only thing holding me back is a stupid choice made by my parents for me to study business. Literally anything else (besides medicine or law) would have gotten me a better result. I can learn languages really fast and I love reading, research and talking to people.

7

Those two excuses of being naturally bad and being bored at a subject are possibly the worst possible excuses. Maybe a top 50 school but with your very average grades and everything else, being asian and also being international makes any better schools unlikely to admit you.

8

First of all, it sounds like you are not very sure what you want to study in graduate school. You say that you studied business but are interested in “astronomy, archaeology, quirky things that only America has.” Have you taken extensive coursework in either of those areas? Because if you haven’t, you aren’t competitive for those programs no matter how good your grades or test scores are. Furthermore, if you want to work for a certain type of company you’ll want to attain a degree that that company can use. Disney doesn’t hire too many astronomers or archaeologists.

Particularly if your family is financially strapped, you shouldn’t get a graduate degree for no particular reason or because you want to study in the U.S. Graduate degrees are supposed to be career preparation for a very specific career; you need to identify what you actually want to get the degree in before you start applying. Beyond that, if you can only apply to 1-2 schools because of finances, it is far better for you to work for a few years and save up the money for application fees while you figure out what you want to do.

When you report your GRE scores, don’t add them - report the sections separately. However, the lowest your scores in one section could be is a 161 (with a 170 in the other), so your GRE scores are fine.

It’s difficult to do the grade conversion in my head - is a 3.3/5.0 basically a C average (equivalent of a 2.3 on a 4.0 scale)? If so, then especially coupled with average recommendations, your chances are…not great. We can’t predict exact chances or tell you what programs to apply to - especially because you didn’t specify what you want to study, and “top 30” means different things in different fields. The top 30 clinical psychology programs are still insanely competitive, whereas the top 30 public health programs vary widely in selectivity. Besides, for academic programs like astronomy and archaeology, you don’t just select schools on rankings - you also picked based upon the research fit and interests you have.

Not at the graduate level, they don’t. But that’s a moot point, because “financial need” is pretty meaningless on the graduate level anyway. Most master’s programs don’t give out need-based aid - you’re expected to cover the cost through loans primarily. Some astronomy master’s programs might offer some funding, but most won’t, and an archaeology master’s is pretty unlikely to have any funding attached to it.

9

Hi Pruno,

Well, I have been the same person from middle school to university–I have the same study habits and same time management. I can’t think of what other explanation there is for doing badly, besides that I am naturally bad at it. Come on, I can spend the same amount of time and get As for my high school subjects, while in university I am not even learning “difficult” material (more like doing powerpoints everyday) and still get Cs. Of course I can blame the professors for disliking me (haha), since university is not as subjective as GCSE’s.

I wouldn’t know if I can do well in these fields since Singapore does not have any course on that AT ALL, but I went to all the museums in other countries whenever I am on holiday and I read articles on astronomy, if it counts. In Singapore, there is no such jobs available (those related to astronomy or archaeology) so it’s not like I can brush up my working experience, which so far has been limited to the “corporate and business” world.

You’re right, I did get 161+170.

What is the average GPA scores in America? In my school, it’s actually 3.5/5. If you get 4 and above, you’re already seen as “very smart”. So I am “slightly” (haha) below average.

By top 30, I was referring to the common rankings you know, like overall. So it will be like Ivy Leagues is the top 10. Well, I have applied to Johns Hopkins, Michigan, UCLA last time for college and didn’t get in. So those schools are the top 20-25 correct? By top 30, it would have to be schools below their rankings. I don’t know where NYU fits but I know friends who went there and it seems like a dream school.

10

Yes, we understand what you mean by top 30 but that is only relevant for undergraduate rankings. For particular graduate programs, these schools may not even be the top 50. One thing you have not yet told us is what field you want to study. All we know is that business is something you do not like. However, you would need to have an Bachelor’s degree in physics or astronomy to be able to enter an astronomy program. Requirements for archeology are different still. Your GPA might not be a huge problem if there is a severe grade deflation in your university, your letters of recommendation could point that out and the right program would make allowances for low grades.

The real issue is that you need to apply to a program for which you are qualified, not just any arbitrary discipline…

11

Hi xraymance,

I thought in America things are different, you can study a masters in a different field from bachelor’s. Lots of people I know studied engineering bachelor’s then MBA. Then you are telling me that I am stuck at Business forever? I can never apply to other programs? I would rather kill myself then touch another subject in Business.
It is not my fault that I can’t have a degree in astronomy, there is no such course in Singapore. But for physics, are you advising me to take another bachelor’s? That would take very long…

As for the top 30 or 50, well, it’s just something I need to persuade my parents. They will be more likely to support me if they actually “heard” of the school. I love it if they could support me, I rather not they be disappointed. Personally, I don’t care much about rankings.

I thought a masters degree is just 2 years anyway, so if their requirements are so high, why would they accept liberal arts people and not me?

12

I don’t think you understand the American university system.
Some people can study for a masters degree in a different field from the bachelor’s degree, but usually there is a relationship or correlation between the two fields. If a person received a bachelor’s degree in engineering, then received an MBA, it is assumed that such a person is going to work in a business sector involving engineering.

If the majors are completely unrelated, then you have to compete for a spot in graduate school with other students who already have the prerequisites required for graduate study. That means your grades have to be above average with no excuses.

You can’t pick programs based on whether or not your parents have heard of them. The US has over 3000 good colleges and universities; some are excellent in specific fields. You have to choose according to what you can afford and what the college offers in Masters degrees.

Also, if you are coming to the US in hopes of later being employed, that is not going to happen. It is very difficult to get sponsored by US companies for work visas. It is assumed that you will get your degree and return to your home country after your schooling.

I also have to concur with the previous posters about your use of terminology. We don’t use terms like “retard” because it connotes a cruel, vicious, and demeaning attacking of our special needs population. Even if you are using it to describe yourself, you need to know that it should never be used.

13

Hi Aunt Bea,

Relax, I am not dreaming of coming to the US and compete for jobs with you citizens. I just want to study abroad, lots of people do that. As for jobs, at most I will do some part-time/internship to sustain my living. My cousin who could not take the Singapore education system migrated to America and she managed to get into Duke, so pardon me if I used to think that it is easy to get into top 30 universities in America. But she is an American.

I am sorry but I do not think there is much correlation between engineering and business. Those people who took MBA just ended up in IBs, BBs and consulting. So it’s more of transferrable skills like analytical ability and quantitative skills.

I read online that there are a lot of “wacky” courses in American universities like “Viking studies”, which I can’t imagine a lot of competition as those ambitious people will all be aiming for Ivy Leagues. That is why, although Business is unrelated to lots of things, I still want to try astronomy.

Again I would think there is a lot of cultural differences between Singapore and America. ‘We’ think it’s ok to even mock people of a different race. There is like 1 or 2 Malay, Indian classmates in my cohort of 700 and people can just joke about their skin colour in front of them and nobody will speak up.

14

@Serafiel
You misinterpreted @“aunt bea”'s comment. She wasn’t feeling threatened (nor are any of us) or something by the prospect of a foreigner seeking emploment in the United States, she was simply stating that it’s difficult for international graduates of US schools to obtain work visas, in the event that you were planning to seek employment in the US.

However, I think you need to step back and do a considerable amount of research on your own before you continue to ask questions here. You have shown that you don’t understand how the American university system works, and that’s ok–there’s nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is that you ask questions, receive answers from people who do understand the American university system, then tell them that they’re wrong and refuse to listen to their advice because they don’t confirm what you believe.

Yes, there is a strong relationship between engineering and business, partly because of their analytical and quantitative skills. The MBA is a poor example for you to support your case of studying something different in graduate school because the point of an MBA is to supplement one’s previous experience, whatever industry that previous experience may be in. It is a professional degree.

A hard academic discipline like astronomy is not the same. For a graduate degree in something like astronomy, or virtually any other field, you must have experience in that specific field. I’m not sure what “wacky courses” have to do with anything, but I think you’re conflating undergraduate and graduate studies. Studies at the graduate level are highly specialized and require in-depth study of a particular topic.

No, it doesn’t count. If you want to study astronomy at a graduate level, for example, it will be expected that you will have taken multivariable calculus, differential equations, linear algebra, general physics, classical mechanics, electricity and magnetism, and perhaps other upper level courses in physics. Similarly, I imagine an MA in archaeology/anthropology would have its own set of prerequisites and requirements. If you apply to any graduate program, you’ll be competing for admission against other applicants who will have all this coursework, as well as research experience, in the field. Applying to a graduate program in any field requires you to be focused on that field, and your prior coursework/experience/motivations need to reflect that.

15

@AuraObscura is absolutely correct.

Well, there are several large corporations, including my DH and DD’s companies that would disagree with your very opinionated statement. These corporations rely on engineers with MBA’s to plan engineering contracts and budgets.

16

Hi everyone,

thanks for your answers. I know now that any graduate degree in America is going to be difficult. Yep, so I shouldn’t apply.
I guess Singapore is really different from America. In Singapore, every MBA graduate wants to work in banks. That’s what it seems like when you attend recruitment talks and MBA students ask questions at Q&A. They seem to not want anything to do with their engineering bachelors’ degree.
Lastly, if I have to go to a graduate’s degree, would you suggest something “easier” for me like “Asian Studies”? Since again, I come from Asia.

17

There are MBA’s in every sector of business, not just banking, but technical and industrial areas. This is not just the US. You are speaking from a very limited and uninformed perspective,. I have a cousin that studied engineering went into technical sales then got an MBA and began to run a business unit in a semiconductor company. He went to Princeton so he could have gone to banking with just the undergrad degree but he didn’t want that lifestyle. Meanwhile he is extremely successful running a company that puts up satellites and has never worked as an engineer excepting a summer internship. His engineering degree game him the background to manage engineering projects and departments.

As far as entering graduate programs, whether or not you are required to have an undergraduate degree in a related area is very specific to the type of graduate degree you are seeking as well as the specific grad school. There are computer science MS that do require a degree in CS or at least math, engineering and some universities will require you to take some prerequisites if you do not have that CS degree. There are other universities that offer a degree for non-majors and they build the prerequisites in. But for astronomy, physics, and research degrees you usually are competing with people who had significant coursework and research in the area. In archeology, undergraduate degrees are rarely offered. But to be admissible you would be expected to have some training in classics, history, art–you might already be expected to know some ancient and modern languages.

Wacky courses are an undergraduate thing. Sometimes colleges have interesting or offbeat classes that will satisfy general education (or lower division undergraduate requirements) or distribution requirements. I once took a class called ‘Crime and the Arts’ which was about art crimes that occurred throughout history such as destroying national treasures in war, stolen artifacts, purloined paintings, forgery, and came all the way op to modern times to discuss graffiti, media and other ethical issues. This satisfied some of my breath requirements outside of my major and was one of the most enjoyable and interesting classes I’ve ever had and it covered history, art, ethics. You will not find general classes like that in grad school. Grad school is advanced work after foundations from undergrad in writing and general knowledge are satisfied. Grad school is focused in one area and even often a very specific sub-area such as a World Region for archeology or in computer science Artificial Intelligence or Theory or Security. You are expected to already have done preparation for your major in your upper division coursework. Some areas you can do post graduate studies to prepare.

MBA, you don’t really need anything other than work experience if you can get a decent program to accept you. In MBA prestige can matter quite a bit. Many other schools it does not. For science and research degrees, the overall reputation of the graduate school is something entirely unrelated to the undergraduate prestige and selectivity. NYU has programs they are very good at for grad school and others that are unremarkable compared to a school your parents never heard of. That isn’t how people pick grad programs here. University of North Dakota, for instance has a Space Studies program that people from all over the US and the world attend. NYU would not compare.

Oh, and there aren’t too many jobs for people with MS in astronomy or archeology either.

18

No. If you do a graduate degree, it should be something related to what you want to do for a career.

Think of graduate school as like specialized vocational training - you go if you need a graduate degree to enter a certain career field, and you go in the area that you need it for. So if you wanted to be an astronomer (as in a researcher who works at a university or a laboratory and performs research on astronomy), you’d get an MA and probably a PhD. Or if you wanted to go into public policy you’d get a master’s of public policy.

If you wanted to be a scholar of Asian studies, then you might start with an MA in Asian studies. Or if you wanted to do some kind of work that would use that - like the foreign service - then maybe an MA in Asian studies might work. But Asian studies is also an academic field, and you have to demonstrate some prerequisite knowledge and some understanding of what and why you want to study Asian studies. Being from Asia is not necessarily enough in and of itself. For example, Berkeley’s MA program in Asian studies require upper division coursework in the area you intend to specialize and a writing sample in Asian studies. There are a few MA programs in Asian studies that accept students with less preparation (like Cornell’s). But what use would an Asian studies MA be for you, especially if you plan to work in Singapore? You already say that your family is financially strapped; there’s little use in sinking money into a useless degree simply so you can study in the U.S. for two years.

Also, most people don’t apply to only one graduate program out of financial concern. At the very least they apply to around 3-5 programs. If you can only afford to apply to one, the best thing you can do is work for a few years while you 1) figure out what you want to do and whether you need a graduate degree, and 2) save up money for application fees.

19

You may want to start off by finding out what your budget is, then search for colleges you can afford. If you can’t get into a $60k/year program, it doesn’t matter whether or not your parents would pay for it. And if they won’t pay for a $30k program because they haven’t heard of it, it’s a waste of your time to apply there too. How much will your mom pay per year?

20

Even if you were not an international student, it would be hard to imagine a graduate school of physics admitting you with an undergrad degree in business and a 2.3 GPA, unless of course, you had taken a ton of physics and mathematics courses as electives and aced them all.