<p>which schools offer the 4+2 program?</p>
<p>I will take a stab at this and try to explain. I’m not an expert but I will share what I’ve learned.</p>
<p>Basically the BArch is an aggressive and accelerated way of getting an Architecture degree that allows you to become licensed. It has an extremely high drop out rate because it is very demanding and the normal 4+2 Architecture track is already demanding enough as it is. The BA/BS also has a high drop out rate too. NAAB recommends the 4+2 track. That is a bachelor + masters in Architecture. A BArch or MArch are both bachelor degrees. If you pursue the BArch, be sure it is accredited by NAAB. </p>
<p>To become a licensed architect, you have to graduate one of 3 ways: one - 5 year BArch, two - 4 year BA/BS Architecture + two year Masters Architeture or three - 4 year degree (other than Architecture) + 3 year Masters Architecture. All three of these will allow you to become a licensed Architect as long as it is accredited by NAAB (<a href=“http://naab.org/home”>http://naab.org/home</a>).</p>
<p>The high drop out rates are usually because after taking one studio course, the students find out they don’t like it. Some reasons are they don’t like how much time is spent in the studio, they had no idea how rigorous the program is, or how long it takes to become licensed, etc. </p>
<p>A good way to see the comparison between a BArch and BS Arch program is to compare the courses that they offer. For example if you take ND’s curriculum <a href=“http://architecture.nd.edu/assets/76345/undergraduatecurriculum.pdf”>http://architecture.nd.edu/assets/76345/undergraduatecurriculum.pdf</a>, it says you have to graduate with 163 credits in 5 years - that is with six semesters of 18 credits which is really insane. That’s like saying you have a minimum of 6 AP courses each semester which includes a studio course. I’m saying a minimum of 6 AP’s because we all know that an AP course isn’t as rigorous as a normal college course. ND requires you to have 133 credits by year 4. The standard is 120. That is 13 more credits. </p>
<p>The other thing is my daughter tells me all the time her studio course is so demanding that it should be the only course that she is taking for the semester. It literally takes up so much time that she barely is able to focus on any of her other courses. That is how demanding one studio course is. So to add on a bunch of courses will just make things really hard and you definitely won’t have a college life.</p>
<p>If you look at Wash U’s BS Architecture program <a href=“http://bulletin.wustl.edu/architecture/requirements/”>http://bulletin.wustl.edu/architecture/requirements/</a>, you’ll see that you take 4 introduction to design courses plus 4 design courses. So you are learning gradually vs. being thrown into it. You would then have to get a masters for two years so you can become a licensed Architect. At Wash U you will be taking 15-16 credits per semester which is normal vs. 18 credits per semester.</p>
<p>At Wash U the three hardest majors are Arch, premed and engineering which says it all. They also offer the accelerated premed track which is 7 vs. 8 years but only a handful get in. They don’t offer BArch and I would think the BArch should only be offered to a few like the accelerated premed track. Most students don’t realize how big of a difference they are and it also seems they don’t realize how long a process is to get the license either. That’s a whole another discussion. </p>
<p>As far as cost, I’ve seen where it is cheaper to attend a 4+3 program vs. a BArch. For my D, this was an eye opening surprise so don’t be fooled that the BArch is the cheapest route. It could be but definitely explore all options. I highly recommend that you apply to all different schools and see which comes out the best for you. In my D’s case, she received several merit offers from private UG schools and that would have been cheaper than attending a BArch school. </p>
<p>I haven’t been able to find a search engine that shows the BA/S Architecture schools but here are some off the top of my head: Tulane (they used to only have BArch and they recently added a BS), Wash U, UT Austin, UMD, Penn State, UTSA, Ball State, Berkeley, Clemson, Lehigh, University of Washington, Princeton, Yale, etc. </p>
<p>I would recommend starting with a list of the top top Graduate schools per Design Intelligence and then start looking one by one to see which Architecture degrees they offer. Maybe someone can add to this? I’ve started it.</p>
<p>Top 20 Architecture, Graduate</p>
<p>1.Harvard University
2. Columbia University
3. Yale University
4. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
5. Cornell University - BArch, Masters
6. Southern California Institute of Architecture
7. University of Virginia
7. University of California, Berkeley
9. Washington University in St. Louis - BA, BS, Masters (2 and 3 years)
10. University of Cincinnati
11. University of Michigan
11. University of Texas at Austin - BS, BArch, Masters
13. Kansas State University
14. University of Kansas
15. University of Pennsylvania
15. Rice University - BArch, Masters (1, 2, 3 years)
15. Princeton University
18. Iowa State University
18. Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
20. Clemson University
20. Savannah College of Art and Design
University of Notre Dame - BArch, Masters (2 and 3 years)
Tulane - BS, MArch (same as BArch), Masters
Lehigh - BA
UTSA - BS</p>
<p>For example, per Rice’s Masters program there are three ways to obtaining a masters in Architecture: Option 3 is only for students that have majored in BArch (1 year), Option 2 is for students that majored in Architecture and have a minimum of 4 studios (2 years), and Option 1 is for students that didn’t major in Architecture (3 years). <a href=“Graduate | Architecture | Rice University”>Graduate | Architecture | Rice University;
<p>I hope this helps. </p>
<p>My daughter is currently applying for M.Arch programs following a BA Arch. The main advantage in a 4+2 is a bit more sanity vs a 5 year BArch or (rare) MArch. But there’s costs involved in an extra year plus the infernal applications, portfolio, rec letters, GRE, sleep test, etc. </p>
<p>Having spent a long time in graduate school myself I suppose my thinking would be that if you want some off-the-wall speciality or way of thinking, a 4+2 would work better than a 5. Let’s say you decide to do a bit more conceptual stuff (Sci-Arc-y or UCLA-y or UofM-y type work). Would you know it in year 1? or at year 2 some random prof from UCLA would open your eyes with her style of work and make you want more of that? The 4+2 makes the option of going to another school a bit easier. </p>
<p>Likewise there are many great schools that are 5 year BArch and have no graduate program, closing the door to a lot of people.</p>
<p>Thank you @newjersey17! @turbo93 is it then advisable to do a 5 year B.arch from a university and not a complete design school?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Most university architecture programs would consider themselves design programs, as compared to an art school or tech school. None of these is necessarily better than the others, just different in focus.</p>
<p>George Thrush the director of Northeastern’s School of Architecture explains:
<a href=“http://www.northeastern.edu/camd/architecture/academics/undergraduate/”>http://www.northeastern.edu/camd/architecture/academics/undergraduate/</a></p>
<p>If you need or want financial aid, you have to compare undergraduate financial packages before you can determine which is more cost effective. Financial aid – both need based and merit based – may be available for the BArch, the BA and the BS, depending on your personal situation.</p>
<p>Funding is available for the MArch, but it is less predictable and harder to come by. Some BArch and MArch programs offer co-op work programs which help defray costs.</p>
<p>Many 4 year BS programs segue into 2 year MArch programs at the same school. Admissions to the MArch programs is not exactly guaranteed but is fairly certain if you’re a BS student in good standing.</p>
<p>If you choose to move to another college for your MArch program you may be looking at more than 2 years, even with a BS. The requirements vary greatly.</p>
<p>You can also get accepted into an MArch program with a BA in architecture, architectural studies or really anything as long as you fulfill the programs prerequisites. Some MArch programs are 3.0 years, some are 3.5 years for BAs. I don’t know of any school that offers automatic admissions to its MArch program for students with a BA from the same school. I may be wrong on this, however.</p>
<p>“is it then advisable to do a 5 year B.arch from a university and not a complete design school?”</p>
<p>One other point to consider is what your options are if you decide to change majors and/or degree programs. A university will most likely offer many more options if you decide that architecture is not for you. A design/art school will probably not have as many choices if you do move away from architecture. More than 50% of D1’s starting class in her BArch program moved out of the architecture program.</p>
This is such a great thread. Thanks to OP and everyone who replied. My S received his final decision today (a Wait-list, sigh), so we’re weighing all of the options now and scheduling the Accepted Students Days. It is pretty tough to figure out and compare the costs of the BARCH programs to the varying BA-MS at each of the schools. If anyone else has advice or opinions on the matter, we’d love to hear it. Thanks.
50% left BARCH program, QuietType? Wow. My son does want to have a school with options, should he change his direction as well.
Wow, what a great thread. I am an architect and I’ll say that all of the above comments are accurate. My niece is interested in architecture school thus prompting me to do some research on the subject. I grew up in Ohio and graduated with a Bachelor in Architecture from the University of Cincinnati in the mid 1980’s. I’ve practiced architecture at large firms, small firms and now have my own architecture business. I also have several friends who teach at architecture schools and they invite me to be a guest studio reviewer once or twice per year so I have seen student work since I graduated so i am aware of contemporary student workload and academics. So, for the aspiring architects (and their parent’s) I’ll say the following:
1.Architecture is a calling. I wanted to be an architect when I was 12 years old. Before college I looked at picture books on architecture, gothic cathedrals, renaissance buildings, pyramids, roman architecture. In those pre-internet days I read the World Book Encyclopedia article on architecture a dozen times (it is actually a very good and comprehensive article). I read all of Frank Lloyd’s Wright’s books and had the books on his houses memorized. I looked at buildings in the town where i grew up and everywhere we visited. I went on tours of old buildings and houses. And I am far from a freak. A couple of years ago at an AIA holiday event I asked all of my colleagues the question “When you were a kid when did you want to become an architect?” and most of them had the same answer as I. There were a handful of late bloomers who discovered Architecture late in high school or in college while in an allied program like engineering school or art school but for the most part they always wanted to be an architect. That early, formative interest and fascination with architecture is what gets 50% of the students through the rigors of architecture school and the lack of it is why the other 50% go onto other professions or careers.
Whoops. I posted before I was complete.
- The schools offering the BArch Bachelor of Architecture path is drastically shrinking and I suspect will be extinct within a few years. This is because Architectural education is very expensive. Universities make much more money squeezing four years of undergraduate and two years of graduate student tuition out of students than they do with five years of undergraduate tuition. Before the 1990's the only architects who pursued Masters of Architecture were those who wanted to teach, had the misfortune of attending a four year architecture program or were exceptionally talented designers who wanted more design education before practicing. When college tuition started to skyrocket in the late 1980's and early 1990's many 5 year BArch programs were transformed into 4+2 programs. My own alma-mater Cincinnati has done this which is sad because you don't need a masters degree to practice architecture.
Architectural education is expensive for a university because it is very hands-on from a faculty standpoint. In a typical design studio class the student will meet and review their project with their professor at least 2x per week. You also present your project to your studio and receive commentary and criticism from your professor and classmates every two weeks or so. There is a similar faculty/student interaction in other design seminar classes, and in nearly all courses from second or third year onward (once the class size has shrunk). The largest class that I attended at Cincinnati was about 225 students in an freshman history of architecture class that also was attended by interior design students and that class was an outlier. Most other classes seldom exceed 50 students. Typically classes had 20 to 25 some had as few as 10 students. Non architecture friends told me about classes with 2000 students in gigantic lecture halls; I never experienced any classes like that. Many non-architecture friends had never spoken one-on-one with a professor until their third or fourth year in school whereas I knew all of my professors from second year onward and they all knew me. That is typical for an architectural education.
- Don't be afraid of the workload. I carried 18 credit hours per quarter for six years at Cincinnati. I carried 20 for a few quarters so that I could reduce to 16 hours fto focus the last two quarters on my Senior project. The real world of architecture is hard work with a lifetime of multiple projects and multiple deadlines so you should get used to it in school. That executive functioning and prioritizing of tasks isn't going away and in some ways is the heart of good design work.
- An architectural education is inherently a well-rounded education. I know many construction contractors, engineers, real estate developers, architectural product sales representatives and even bankers who graduated architecture school and would not exchange their architectural education for another. The nature of architecture requires an understanding of physics, mathematics, color, form, light, geography, geology, weather, anthropology, writing, history, visual communication, drawing, computers, salesmanship and presentation skills, public speaking and business. Architecture graduates are proficient in all of these topics. We live in a complex world and an architectural education covers a lot of topics.
- One clarification on no 3 "I knew all of my professors from second year onward and they all knew me". My professors didn't just know me but they also knew my strengths and weaknesses and intervened to improve my architectural skills. They saw my design projects from freshman year onward and interacted with me on that basis. One professor said "You are a great drafter but your freehand drawing is atrocious. Drawing is a learned skill. Take a few classes in freehand drawing and figure drawing". So I did and I became much more proficient and improved my ability to sketch and graphically figure out design problems. Another professor recognized my weaknesses with color and suggested a painting course. A third professor noted that I was going on a co-op quarter in New York City. He said "This is an OK paper. If you want to get an A on it, use the Columbia University Architecture library when you are on co-op and rewrite the paper and turn it in at the beginning of the following quarter. Columbia will have all of the publications and resources that we don't have to make this a better paper plus you be able to experience an incredible library and institution." I did. It was a great experience and I got the A.
@BizzzB, you seem to have knowledge and passion for this subject and its related fields. My daughter is creative and has solid math and science ability. She has great interest in the entire process of design, construction and finishing touches of buildings, homes, developments etc. She always loved watching restoration shows and that type of programming. She was unsure of what direction to take to get into the field. After speaking with a current architect, builder and civil engineer (all family) she decided to go for architecture. My questions are, is there any reason to go for BS over BFA? additionally, while touring arch programs we would hear students say, if you take this or that you will be able to work in this field as well. Are there obtainable jobs related to the design/ construction process if you have a BS or BFA? would she need to do MArch necessarily? I suggested a larger school to provide movement if this turns out to be too much. I don’t think it will be, but you never know. So the schools we have narrowed it down to are (we are north jersey) University @ Buffalo, Kent State, UMass Amherst and Auburn. She was accepted to all. I would appreciate your thoughts on all aspects of this as well as school selection. If anyone else has advice I would love to hear it as well. Thanks!!
Sull29, I’m not Bizzz, but I’m the parent of an architect and I will give you my comments on your questions. congratulations to your daughter on some fine acceptances. It’s great to have so many choices so early in the process.
The 5.0 year undergraduate professional architecture degree is a Bachelor of Architecture (BArch) not a BFA. (More on UMass’s BFA below.) The major difference between the 5.0 year BArch and a 4.0+2.0 BS+MArch is that the BArch is more intense and focuses almost exclusively on architecture. The BS+MArch route allows more room for experimentation in other disciplines.
If it turns out the architecture isn’t the right choice for your daughter, she may find a BS program easier to transfer out of. It really depends on the school. Also, if she decides not to continue onto an MArch program at the same school as her undergrad, then she may be looking at more than 2.0 years. MArch programs very widely in duration and requirements.
Top ranked MArch programs admit students with a wide range of educational backgrounds. There is no single best route. MArchs can also be pricey, so be sure to take financing into consideration. MArch funding is available but generally not at the same level of need-based or merit aid that might be expected in an undergraduate degree.
In most states (I believe NJ is an exception) you need either a BArch or an MArch to become a licensed architect, but plenty of people work in architecture who are not licensed architects and do not have professional degrees. They can work in architectural design, model building, marketing, real estate development, construction, preservation or urban planning. Architecture based computer technology is another emerging field.
A lot of people with BA/BS degrees in architecture or architectural studies will work for a few years in the industry before getting their MArchs. Getting a professional degree and going through the licensing program (which takes another 3+ years) provides more flexibility and often more money. Some firms expect their senior architects to be licensed, some do not.
Among the schools that your daughter is considering, only Auburn offers the BArch. It’s a highly respected program, especially in sustainability, ranked in the top 10. Kent State offers both a BS in Architecture and a BA in Architectural Studies, both of which would be a platform for admission to their MArch program. Same for Buffalo, except that their BA is in Environmental Design.
UMass’s BFA in Architecture + Design is not a common degree. I don’t know much about the program (though it looks interesting) or UMass’s MArch. If UMass appeals to your daughter I would ask them which graduate programs and what kind of careers their BFAs in architecture have pursued.
@momrath, Thank you for your insight. We have our visits all scheduled and intend to ask plenty of questions. I appreciate the feedback. I know now is not the best time for visits especially in the north east, but I told my D this is what you will be living in, so might as well see it as it will be. First stop is Buffalo in 2 weeks, hoping for no blizzards. Then Kent, then re-visit to Umass, then Auburn. I know it seems backwards, but it just works out better for travel. She’s very excited for the visits and I am curious to see what her reaction will be. The BS/BFA/BArch is starting to clear up in my head. If anyone has any first hand experience with the schools I mentioned, I would welcome your input. Thank you all!!