Isn’t the reason that “all the rich kids” seem to do “rich kid things” is that only those that let others know they are rich are ACTUALLY KNOWN to be rich? All the others just blend in.
Also, I find it interesting that no one has touched upon the pressure that low SES kids get from their families, neighborhoods, etc. to continue to do things the same way it is done in the neighborhood they came from. In many such communities no one complains, or asks for special help, or expects others to pitch in so they can participate. There is dignity in simply doing the best you can with whatever you have. Self reliance is highly valued. The student may feel very conflicted about changing behavior based upon the different messages they are receiving. They actually feel they are being forced to choose between very different value systems.
@dadoftwingirls It’s more than just experience, but of course that’s part of it. My guess is that upper middle class kids feel a certain degree of protection that those in the lower SES do not, so they feel more free to be assertive. If push comes to shove, I think my med school can kick me out on any pretense, so I try to keep my head down. There is a lot on the line. Hopefully my kids will feel differently, but it’s not something I can just “learn” right now.
I believe she made that very clear the first time, but the problem lies in the fact that the pressure continues in a variety of different ways.
Apparently, it involves makeup, too. One girl keeps asking to borrow expensive makeup and acts surprised when she doesn’t have it to borrow. They all know she is not a big makeup fan in the first place and pressure her to wear more. Before you ask, you can be assured she is perfectly presentable as she is.
Glad we’ve settled it then: any difference in the experience of lower SES kids in elite colleges is in the eye of the beholder. After all, money doesn’t really matter, and everything is based on merit and character in this world. Got it.
You know, I like these threads that show how we’re all on the same page. I think I’ll start one about how going to Yale has proved life-changing for my son in ways no other college could. >:)
“One girl keeps asking to borrow expensive makeup and acts surprised when she doesn’t have it to borrow. They all know she is not a big makeup fan in the first place and pressure her to wear more. Before you ask, you can be assured she is perfectly presentable as she is.”
I find that odd. I lived in a sorority house for two years and we didn’t “borrow makeup” from one another. It’s a personal thing, not shared.
Your whole story is odd and unbelievable. Unless maybe this girl is interpreting “that lip gloss - it looks so good on you!” or some other silly chit chat - as being “pressure”.
@Pizzagirl I think you have to allow for the possibility that your experiences do not mirror that of the entire world. People are different and situations are different.
How often do you get asked “Why don’t you drive a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Tesla…?” Does that sound like an odd question?
This whole thread is about poor American students but the the top schools take in a large number of poor foreign students too.
Couple of years ago someone from another country asked me about choosing Y for CS/engineering vs some other better CS program schools. Interestingly enough he was getting almost a full ride from Y but his class also had admitted a billionaire’s kid from the same country whose family owned a high tech company. I mentioned that to him and told him that if he wants to go back to his country as a CS major, would he prefer going to a top CS school or know someone from college who will be a bigshot in a high tech firm when he gets back? He had made friends with other kid on FB and guess where he went?
JustOneDad–is your daughter really unhappy with her situation at school or is she just grousing about annoying situations? If I were you, I’d suggest that she just ignore the people who ask to borrow expensive items or invite her to expensive places. Part of becoming an adult is learning to deal with uncomfortable situations and learning how to improvise and think on your feet. Why not help her brainstorm responses to these folks. I’m sure she can figure it out. If all this is really bothering her and affecting her studies and adjustment to college life, maybe she should get some help from an on-campus counselor.
@Pizzagirl Yet, I hear it all the time.
They are not her roommates.
@Bromfield2 No, of course not. She handles it with poise and grace like everything else. It is, however, the first time she has been around people who both know and have their sensors tuned to social differences like this.
I don’t believe for a minute you regularly hear “why don’t you drive a Ferrari.” Unless perhaps you’re a Ferrari dealer who doesn’t drive one. Come off it. Come back to the world of normal social discourse, not made-up questions.
I think much of this discussion is centered around how newly placed groups navigate the complicated construct of elite universities, including but not limited to fellow students, staff and faculty, and any institutional and historical assumptions. Exercebating this already complex environment are stark realities of resources, community and cultural attributes and in some cases, lack of any real context or mentors.
So, much like the advice of Ms. Sandberg to “lean in”, while the instruction is basically correct, it fails to acknowledge your specific place at the table, how long others have been sitting at the table, what is the backstory of your invite to the table, and your own personal comportment. So, again, using Ms. Sandberg, who was already not just the part of many elite institutions and groups, but sitting at the top of the heap of many of these groups. Her verve and intelligence were already unquestioned. Moreover, they were cultivated and nurtured, in truth, through several generations.
This is my point, it takes most any of us, a significant acclimation period to have the fluidity and verve to truely sail through these complex environments. And while you can become a world reknown expert in your chosen academic field, contributing seminal papers and vangard thoughts, it can only go so far at times…just ask Henry Gates, a full tenured professor and Director of Research at Harvard, about the indignities that are still readily apparent…
True. But some of this discussion in the original article is about the microaggression of “I feel so out of place when a classmate reveals that she is going to Gstaad on a private jet for spring break” and to that, I have little patience or sympathy, as my upper middle class full pay kids aren’t doing that either.
It seems that part of what poor kids need to learn is that their assumptions about upper class markers (private jets, designer initials on clothing, etc) aren’t actually very accurate. Plenty of upper class kids live college lives indistinguishable from their middle class classmates, except they don’t have to sweat tuition or worry about affording a plane ticket home at break.
And I think it also behooves poorer kids to remember that money doesn’t buy happiness, and the “rich kid” may also have family dysfunction, have suffered losses, etc. - that just because he’s not sweating the tuition payment doesn’t mean that his life is necessarily a bed of roses or that he is immune to sadness or disappointment or loss.
True. But some of this discussion in the original article is about the microaggression of "I feel so out of place when a classmate reveals that she is going to Gstaad on a private jet for spring break" and to that, I have little patience or sympathy, as my upper middle class full pay kids aren't doing that either.
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Did the article really say that?
The story seems fantastical.
I know many friends who are ivy graduate and most of them (if not all) were full pay since their parents were solidly upper middle class (lawyers, doctors, execs). None of them flies around in business class let alone private jet.
My neighbor to the right are two Ivy-graduate physicians - they fly coach (and red-eye, at that) all the time.
My neighbor to the left who is a C-suite Wharton-graduate do not have private jet (they vacationed in the Maldives last year, though - envious!)
At my kido’s private podunk college, I (as a parent) could not tell which students are in low/high SEC.
Everybody dresses in Tshirt/Jeans/flip-flop (kids these days have no taste). Everyone is in some kind of work-study program earning slightly-better-than-minimum wage. They all get to go back home every Thanksgiving and X-mas. I learned later that many of my kid’s friends are on full-tuition need-base scholarship (and mine understanding is that the college pay/subsidize room&board and also plane ticket home). At least, this is my personal (very limited) experience regarding SEC.
All that being said, I know for a fact, that a note, say from a first generation URM from La Habra (look it up), to her assistant Dean, is some cases, is not taken the same way or urgency, as a 3rd generation legacy student. I could give a hoot if you drive a spanking brand new Audi (although cars are not really allowed on my Ds campus) or have a summer getaway in St. Bart’s (I prefer the a Pacific), I do have consternation however, when access and audience are mitigated. While you can say, " just ask", when that is not either culturally or even societally instinctual, well, you make a rather profound presumption.
“At my kiddo’s private podunk college, I (as a parent) could not tell which students are in low/high SEC.
Everybody dresses in Tshirt/Jeans/flip-flop (kids these days have no taste).”
Well, yes, that’s entirely part of my point - that there seems to be an assumption that higher SES kids are readily identifiable (the BMW! The Tory Burch bag! The passport with the European stamps!) and let’s get real - on the vast majority of college campuses, even the super-wealthy are NOT living lives that are appreciably different from either their “regular upper middle class” counterparts or their middle class counterparts. They wear jeans, t-shirts, casual shoes, and if they go to dinner, they go to casual restaurants, not five-star restaurants.
Perhaps the real difference is that the low-SES students did not grow up around any classmates who had significant income. My kids, while raised with a relatively modest lifestyle and strong work ethic, knew kids at their public high school who went the flashy, braggy ostentatious route in high school, so perhaps my kids were used to being around those types of students and it didn’t make them feel bad or self-conscious. They understood that other people will either always have more than they do, or act like it, and that doesn’t make them better people or happier.
I guess the “privileged” poor, as described in the article would understand this too.