True class does not flaunt wealth, nor demand that others flaunt it. Announcing it (and discussing it among non-intimates) is an indicator of the absence of class. Perhaps J.O.D.'s daughter will come to appreciate that soon.
Iâm still surprised though, that there are low-SES students admitted to Yale who wouldnât be comfortable asking questions or getting help. Itâs almost unbelievable that they had the credentials to get to Yale without these basic skills.
To experience a bit of what the less privileged students might face imagine being in the world they grew up in.
Most of the people who comment here are in some stratum of middle class⊠some may have come from a socio-economic world different from their current one.
In any case, when in a different place one deals with anxiety. It could be felt as excitement. It could be felt as fear.
How would you cope?
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@worth2try, you now have the experience as you have seen others make a request but chose not to make a similar request. You choice not to try is your issue. If you made the same request as the other students, and your request did not gain the same result, then I believe their could be the favoritism or privilege could be a factor if sufficient reason wasnât given. Without asking you will continue to feed the belief in your own mind that only the privilege get results for special request when you would be given the same result as those who ask.
Your professors arenât mind readers but MOST are understanding human beings and understand life happens and will make allowances when they are aware of your request and the circumstances behind it. Most professor want their students to succeed. For those who arenât understanding or take pride in weeding students out of programs, keep your head down and do the best you can with those instructors.
I already know how Iâd cope since I came from a lower working class background and âascended.â The simple answer was that my father, a hs dropout without formal education who served in Vietnam and got his GED there, instead of resenting people who had money, learned how to study them and fit in. He didnât waste time griping that others had more; he was an astute observer of how people acted, so he fit right in and became extremely successful based on people skills, not academic ones. Part of his skill is that he can interact with, fit in, and not be intimidated by anybody, whether itâs the Boston Brahmin or the tough Italian from NJ or (insert whatever other stereotype you like). I was raised that way, too - thereâs no need to feel inferior to others who have more money; all they have is more money, not magical keys to the kingdom.
"you now have the experience as you have seen others make a request but chose not to make a similar request. You choice not to try is your issue. "
Absolutely. Itâs your choice to adopt the mantra âthereâs no harm in asking - the worst that happens is that the person says no.â
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I do have consternation however, when access and audience are mitigated. While you can say, " just ask", when that is not either culturally or even societally instinctual, well, you make a rather profound presumption.
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I totally agree with boolaHI.
I am not at all worried whether some low-SES has their sensibility offended because some rich stupid kids choose to flaunt their parentsâ wealth. However these low-SES kids should have the same access and urgency when dealing with the power-that-be of these colleges. As somebody has mentioned in the previous post, the school should take conscious steps to train these kids to be advocate for themselves in college. To just say âSeek and you shall find/Ask and it shall be givenâ, in a lot of cases, is not sufficient.
Also, I did not understand the part about not having access to internship like their higher-SES peers.
If needed, my wife and I are not above shame to pull some strings (those little that we have) to open door/get internship for kidsâ college friends. You never know - in a decade, they may be your boss. :o)
@epiphany Um, there is nothing about this that has indicated my student flaunts wealth. Itâs entirely your assumption. In fact, this situation came about because they assumed she was a scholarship student in the first place. Those girls took her for one of them since the beginning of the year and only began to act up when they couldnât make her act like one of the pack.
What you need to understand is that there are students in the Ivies who are very attuned to this sort of thing and who seek it out. It doesnât have to be flaunted. In fact, the families who actually do have money are a lot harder to spot then the ones who are trying to pretend they do.
Yet, some people do fly around in Business Class. There is a wide range of incomes out there and just because someone is full pay doesnât mean they are âwealthyâ or that they are required to do the things people expect of that class.
âIâm still surprised though, that there are low-SES students admitted to Yale who wouldnât be comfortable asking questions or getting help. Itâs almost unbelievable that they had the credentials to get to Yale without these basic skills.â
Thatâs fair, and I think that our surprise is the flip side of theirs. Itâs really hard to drop the assumptions of our culture. We just canât stop applying our knowledge and values to other peopleâs choices. Even when we hear it straight from the horseâs mouth, we find it incomprehensible.
The low SES kids admitted to Yale perhaps didnât need help in their previous environments. They were often so many light-years ahead of their peers when it came to academics that they never had a challenge before. Some spent high school more or less as teachersâ aides, explaining the material to their classmates.
The lesson I take away from all of this is to take people at their word when theyâve lived an experience and I havenât. If they say itâs difficult to walk in those shoes, I should take that seriously, even if itâs hard to understand.
Looking back, I could have done a better job of this when I was a student. My singing group went on a free ski trip that included âeverything,â but it didnât include clothing. The upper-class kids had ski pants already, and the child of public school teachers could find a couple of hundred dollars for ski pants. One member of the group was from a a low-income family and couldnât. We didnât anticipate that the way we should have, and didnât help him look for solutions the way we should have. He came up with a bad solution: buying ski pants with the hope of returning them, and the store wouldnât let him. He was distraught over the credit card charge he couldnât pay. (He ended up failing out twice, and eventually graduated a full ten years after he started at Harvard.)
Right. Which is why - when someone says something upthread like they did that an environment such as GWU may be âuncomfortableâ because âa lot of kids wear designer clothing, etc.â - thatâs just stupid, because the presence or absence of outward signs such as designer clothing really doesnât say much about whether someone really IS wealthy or not.
Look, anyone knows there are people walking into Neiman-Marcus wearing yoga pants and sweatshirts who are capable of buying the entire store, and people walking around dripping designer labels head-to-toe who are in over their heads financially speaking. Maybe itâs a lesson that the poor need to learn, that âconspicuous consumptionâ may or may not equal real wealth.
Pizzagirl (#244) - Yes, adapting is key. Youâre very fortunate to have had a parent who has been a good role model, which, I assume is reflected in your parenting. Your children are fortunate, too.
At times, when faced with learning to fit in, adapting, the experience can become too much, even to the point of feeling overwhelmed.
For me, when in a very different social setting, I can adjust. However, if it that setting were 24/7, it would take some effort adjusting to the adjusting.
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Look, anyone knows there are people walking into Neiman-Marcus wearing yoga pants and sweatshirts who are capable of buying the entire store,
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:o) That would be me (at least the first part) - but the second part should read âcapable of buying NOTHING in the entire storeâ
I have not read all 17 pages of postsâŠso forgive me if Iâm saying something that has already been stated.
You knowâŠthere are wealthy people at all collegesâŠand there are really poor people at all colleges money wise.
Do college students really discuss their family finances and wealth? Do they really force their friends to go to designer stores if they canâtâŠor can?
I went to a public university back in the dark ages. I didnât know it at the time, but my roommateâs family was extremely wealthyâŠlike multimillionaire kind of wealthy. I came from a single parent home, and worked at least three jobs all the time to lay my college costs. We NEVER discussed our financesâŠnot ever. Of course I knew she had a few more dollars than I didâŠshe had a nice car and my family didnât even own a car. Still, we did many things together, had the same circle of friends, went out, etc. I never went on a spring break trip or to Europe during the summerâŠbut it never affected our friendship.
So my questionâŠreally, how much do students two about family wealth in college? If they are doing THAT, in my opinion that is the huge issue.
âDo they really force their friends to go to designer stores if they canâtâŠor can?â
No. But they do plan âfully fundedâ ski trips and never think about how their low-income friend will find the right clothes.
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âDo college students really discuss their family finances and wealth? Do they really force their friends to go to designer stores if they canâtâŠor can?â
Of course they donât. There are people taking the odd example â like the supposed âpressuring another girl over why she doesnât wear high end makeupâ - and acting like itâs the norm. In real life, this just doesnât even remotely happen the way it gets portrayed. Iâm not doubting lower SES students may be saddened when they arenât able to get back home for Thanksgiving when their classmates can just hop on planes, and Iâm not doubting some of them intimidate themselves when they see that the girl next to them in class happens to have a designer handbag or wherever, but no, I donât remotely think people âdiscussâ family finances and wealth in these ways. There is a huge difference between âIâm secretly intimidated when I see X around meâ and âThose who have X pressure me to also buy X when thereâs no way I can possibly afford it.â
"o) That would be me (at least the first part) - but the second part should read âcapable of buying NOTHING in the entire storeâ
And see, this is the kind of self-deprecating stuff that goes nowhere. Truly, half the stuff in Neiman-Marcus is also found at any reasonably nice department store. Itâs not like a lipstick costs $1,000.
What I would say is that they have a very hard time time understanding why you wouldnât if you could.
Well, then they are stupid. Why does this young lady feel the need to hang around them again? The âopinionsâ of stupid people arenât worth fretting about.
Maybe you just havenât heard about the ones where Grandma shows up with three duffle bags full of ski gear, just in case the lucky invitees donât know anything about skiing.