Like I said…I never went on a spring break trip. I never expected to go on a spring break trip. I went home and worked…so I could pay for the next term. And oddly, it didn’t matter to me that my wealthier friends went on these trips…and it never seemed to affect our friendships.
We would regularly go to an army navy store in our college town. I browsed while my roommate shopped. Nothing fancy schmancy, but she usually bought something. Often, I would comment on how I liked a certain plaid in a flannel shirt, or a scarf, or something. And often my roommate would comment that she liked it too, and would buy it. She would use the item a few times, and then say “you know…I don’t like this so much…would you like it?”
I didn’t figure out that she was doing this to buy these things for me until many years after we graduated from college…many. I thought it was very sweet in retrospect!
I didn't figure out that she was doing this to buy these things for me until many years after we graduated from college...many. I thought it was very sweet in retrospect!
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Many kids are raised properly. :o)
Obnoxiousness is not the norm (I hope).
Social engineering thought - when I interview kids from “low SES” backgrounds, there are a LOT of programs that they are led to, nay, subscribed to. It is not like a kid says “hey, I need some help, I think I’ll join the Boys and Girls Club!”, they are forced (more or less) into programs that, by net effect, are very positive. But they don’t necessarily deal with things like their parents do, having to seek out translation help or welfare or food stamps or health insurance. Things where if a deadline is missed, you are stuck and have to wait a year. Imagine - you are 19 and need to apply for the ACA on your own. Was the student told that? Was the parent told that? Could the university predict that would happen, that the student was on Medicaid at age 18 (part of the family Medicaid) but now has to apply on their own through a state program or the ACA?
So saying “heck, these kids got into Yale what’s their problem?” may ignore the common situation of “help the poor kids” programs, which do help but need to focus on creating independence, not just dependence.
As for: “It is not to suggest that Harvard is in the business of placing demands on how low SES students contribute to society.” My spouse contributes quite a bit to society, paying taxes let alone his work is pretty dang critical (without giving details), and we are involved with animal shelter charity work. We are not involved in poverty work at all, but we do keep money aside for his mother who is poor in terms of income (SS only, can barely pay taxes) but at least owns a small condo. At some point, animals always have to depend on others, and our work there is clear. But to be able to foster independence, to be able to say “hey, you don’t have money or opportunity now in high school, but you will have opportunity in college, and here’s how you deal with it…” is very very difficult.
An interesting corollary to the “teaching poor people to help themselves” is that my spouse was assigned to be a university-sponsored tutor in college for work study as a freshman, being near the top of our entering freshmen class. For him to be a tutor for other kids, kids who sometimes had the same background as him (he is multiracial but looks white and grew up poor) and see how they were struggling, it really was an eye-opener and helped him adjust by being trained to be a tutor. Because tutoring was not just “okay, here’s how to do your math homework” it was also “so you need to work 20 hours per week, and you are having trouble getting your homework done - let’s work on a schedule for you and you can check in with me”. The tutors were essentially mentors as well as tutors.
JustADad–not sure what is bothering you about rich kids on campus who may be clueless that not everyone comes from a similar background.
If your D is getting a good education and getting along socially–who cares about clueless kids? There will always be people with much money and family connections at elite and even non-elite schools. Some of these rich kids are good people, others aren’t.
YK, not every kid who comes from a lower-class background is noble, kind, and understanding. Let me introduce you to some folks from my old neighborhood–which has the highest crime rate in my old hometown.
What I’m trying to say is that there are people everywhere who we may not want to be around, yet circumstances require us to do so. It’s a part of life. One adjusts and moves on.
Kids with money don’t realize that buying a black dress to perform with your singing group is a big deal for a kid with no money. Kids with money don’t realize that breaking your eyeglasses is a big deal for a kid without a spare pair, and for whom the $200 or so for a replacement pair (if a complicated prescription) might be half the budget for books next semester.
I think the Neiman Marcus discussion is silly. Kids who show up at elite colleges who come from modest backgrounds really don’t give a %^&* about the handbags and the lipsticks and the designer items. It’s no shock to realize “hey, I’m poor”. They get it.
It’s the small stuff- the required dress code for some extra curricular activities, the stuff not covered by health insurance, the assumption that parents are sending regular infusions of cash for meals out, snacks, fun activities, etc.
I’ve seen things on public campuses that would make your eyes bulge- so I don’t think this is a State U vs. Ivy problem. I think the stratification is sometimes worse at a public U where certain activities (sororities for example) become an exclusionary mechanism for maintaining the illusion that one can go from gated community to college campus back to your gated community/country club without ever having to hob nob with the hoi polloi. I have also observed that some folks with means do a poor job of raising their kids to be aware of how unusual their circumstances are.
@Hanna Continuing your thought, one of my daughters best friends at her school, although a class above her, is a rather classic example. Native American from the NW, incredibly bright young man, (35 ACT, 2300+ SAT), was also accepted at Dartmouth, Princeton and UChicago. However, HYS home-life and immediate mentors were at best sorely lacking, and it worse, misplaced and manipulative. Even through his senior year he sent money back home to assist family finances. He has worked for me the past two summers, and while obviously brilliant–he lacked in many social cues.
For instance during most breaks, he was found to be smoking on a outside stairwell–more of a blue collar affectation, more than anything else. Or because he had only two sets of nice clothing (blue and grey suits), he would wear these week-worn suits, even on casual days, as he was embarrassed about his casual clothes which consisted of mostly sweats and “short sets” (look it up–it’s an urban thing). A trip to Jcrew helped him, not change his fashion sense, but being to adapt to environment he had no context or history. He is well on his way, but a mentor (myself) was greatly needed to provide counsel on the various hierarchies and politics that construct any career…
I remember in college when I had to go with a class to a local museum. The admission fee was like $5 but I ended up breaking down and crying because I didn’t have $20 in my account so I couldn’t pull out cash. (I don’t remember why I couldn’t use my card.) It ended up having a semi-funny ending because my now-fiance saw me crying, didn’t know what was wrong, and handed me a $20 when I said I didn’t have $5 to go to the museum. He said “I don’t know how to fix this, here’s $20.”
When we had to dress up for events, I almost always borrowed clothes and shoes from friends. I don’t think I had a formal dress in college and I know I didn’t have a suit or anything like that.
There were times when I had to get cash advances from my boss in order to put gas in my tank to drive to work (no public transportation where I live).
These are the little things that cause enormous stress and can greatly interfere with studies.
One kid at DS’s middle school came from a modest background. The most precious belonging he had was his TI-calculator. He valued this gadget so much that he would not let anybody borrow or even touch it. Whenever some other student asked whether anyone else has a calculator he could borrow for a minute, he would immediately put his calculator in his backpack or his pocket. It is a strange behavior as seen by other kids growing up from a family with more means.
It is not right or wrong here. Some kids who grew up from a different environment very likely just behaves differently.
Our family has never been poor (maybe an exception was when our kid was before 2 years old.) But I do not think we have ever been in a store like JCrew.
Well, I currently own two sets of nice clothing. Luckily, in my line of job in my whole life, people do not care how you dress yourself. T-shirt and jeans could be the norm in the summer time.
However I “encourage” my child to have better dresses though, even though I myself could not help him with this. Hopefully, he could get some advices from his circle of friends or even his GF now about this. Many of them seem to have a different growing-up experience. Occasionally, the most difficult thing for me to do is to convince him to part with some of our money. (In my family, the money belongs to everybody. But we hope this will not be the case when he starts to make his own money.)
Have you read any of this at all? Your opinion seems to be yet another one falling victim to assumption. I haven’t said anything about being bothered by rich kids on campus.
Money (or short term lack of it) isn’t worth crying about. I have little respect for a student smart enough to be in university who can’t maintain an emergency fund for the small problems. It’s the smart thing to do. Even if you didn’t learn it at home, it seems like something you could learn in the first few weeks of being “on your own”.
I do have to point out that the back up plan would be to simply ask another student or even the instructor “I’m so sorry to have to do this, but can I borrow the admission fee until …whenever.”
If “little things” cause such stress, wouldn’t a reasonably bright student develop a plan to reduce those stressors as much as possible?
Gee, JOD, why didn’t I think of that? Of course I should just have an emergency fund lying around for when I need it.
Let’s see… which one of my expenses was I going to forego in order to have that emergency fund? Tuition? Food? Gas? Insurance?
Not exactly sure what my plan would’ve been. I was already working full time and living a bare-bones existence. But you’re right, I should’ve just asked the money fairy. Duh, how dumb I was!
My first tux was $25. A dinner jacket followed for $15 and a suit for $20. We had to drive to a thrift store in an upscale community. I had to type two papers to get a girl who could sew to make a few alterations. It looked like a million bucks.
I didn’t wait until I needed them. There is no excuse to come up short, even on something like that.
That is something that is oft learned at home. If it was one of my daughters, yes, I would be disappointed if they had not planned ahead and put something a little aside, in case of an emergency. However, in the case of her friend, he lived in HS, in five various low rent apartments. Different family members were also occasionally in jail (not prison), thus presumed live-skills, are not only not present, but rather trumped by chaos and instability. Let us not forget that about half the population in the US live in similar conditions.
I agree that if you live in a household like that, you need to find a very good hiding place for your emergency fund stash. The first place I might try would be in a book.
I worked for it. Occasionally gave blood/plasma/did studies. Problem was that I could make more than the time most studies took. When you cashed your check you took care to replenish the emergency fund. I was the one at the counter saying "I’d like to deposit this, and can I get a five and 2 ones in cash, too, please? There might have been some quarters in there, too. So I could wash clothes, if necessary.
The “problem” is that DS may not know how much money he has. His emergency fund? just one call to the bank of mom and dad!
You can say we have “spoiled” him in this regards. (This does not mean he is not frugal though. He has always been as frugal as me, as far as I could tell.)
Money isn’t worth crying about, but the inability to save enough of it when you’re 18 or19 and a full time student makes a person not sue thy of respect? Interesting.