What it's like to be poor in an Ivy League(or any elite/respectable private college)

Parents Forum
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Back in the last century, when the College Board was beginning to offer the Student Search program that sells lists of student names with certain score ranges to colleges and universities, my undergrad college conducted an experiment with that service, and admitted one class (mine) based on academic merit with almost no regard to financial need. Half of us came through Student Search, and had never heard of the place before we got the “please consider us” letter. The other half of the class came from more traditional feeder pathways. We were told at the time that our class tied up 40% of the entire aid budget for each year we were there. While it was a wonderful academic experience for those of us who had never heard of the place before, or who would have thought it was completely out of the range of possibilities for ourselves, we also were aware that we weren’t like any of the classes before or (because of the whole tying up so much aid thing) after us.

We were not precipitated into a higher socio-economic class simply because of our four years at that higher SES institution. I don’t think anyone there had any understanding of the barriers between SES categories. I think they all simply believed that if we could handle the academics, the rest would fall into place. It didn’t. Those of us who were on scholarship went on to lead lives very much equivalent to those we would have led had we never been invited to apply and had we instead graduated from our home-state public Us or a lower-tier LAC. We just have a much fancier name on our undergrad diplomas, the full confidence that we are as smart as (if not smarter than) the HYPSM graduates of our generation, and regular invitations to alum events that have nothing to do with athletics.

I have heard rumors that my old college is now somewhat better at coping with students like myself and my friends, and that it has made concerted efforts to aid the transition of students who come from even lower SES (in particular with the formal affiliation with the POSSE program). How much of this has to do with the enormous strides in career advising since my day and now, and how much has to do with whatever was learned from my class’s experience is something that I don’t know.

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and…

Whoa…what? I thought the elite schools opened all these doors! There is another thread which tries to ‘prove’ that an elite education does NOT do exactly what is described in these quotes…weird.

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“Even people “with a lot” (full pay, etc) don’t get everything they want handed to them. My kids have never had a car. They don’t jet off to foreign countries over spring break. They’ve not traveled anywhere near as much as other families. But they don’t sit there and seethe with resentment over those who do. There will always be someone with more. That is life.”

I don’t think you truly understand. My children don’t have extras either, but some of it is our choice. We choose to save money for their college bills and pay in full. With the first gens kids, their parents don’t have that choice.

With these First Gens, it’s not a choice to be able to pay for blue books, books, etc. They have to have the supplies and it’s not a choice. The spend extra time figuring out how to get their supplies and become creative.

They are not “seething” and they don’t want sympathy; what they do want to do is to feel like they belong by being able to contribute to class and social discussions.

They have to figure out a way to do it.

I grew up this way. My parents always had to make a decision about what little money they had: electricity or food? water bill or food? And my Dad was a US army vet, but back then, they didn’t have the programs they have now, so he didn’t have much vocational training and worked as a laborer in all trades.

In my classes, the discussions were awkward because personal experiences came up. We had a discussion in class and someone used an analogy about an “e-ticket” at Disneyland. Well guess what? Not all kids go to Disneyland.

You want to know how I got my books? I went to the library; the current text books were on loan for several hours. I would go to the copy machines and print out 2 chapters at a time; it’s all I could afford with my 2 part-time jobs. That’s how I got my “books”. My time would have been better spent studying, but instead, I had to drop in a nickel at a time, into those old machines, taking forever to copy one page. Later, I had work study, and I asked my supervisors and administrators if I could use their machines to copy my chapters and they okayed it. But I didn’t abuse the privilege and told them I would pay them back-and I did.

Unless you’ve walked in those shoes, you wouldn’t understand.

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Having been middle class in rarified environments of various sorts (and now being in the position where I’m something different than middle class hanging around with the truly rarified world of people whose family names are on the buildings), I think the issues described in the article are unavoidable when you mix the groups.

But, I wouldn’t want to discourage anyone who has the opportunity by discussing the realities they’ll face. First, places like Harvard provide enormous opportunities, so the prices you pay in being an outsider can be worth it. Watching a power class isn’t valuable just because you might have an opportunity to join, but because you bring perspective to them and back home. Second, not every school that is similarly elite is the same. Harvard, specifically, has struck me, from an outsiders perspective as having a particularly strong rich kid/social connections culture, but I have not attended, and so can’t know if my perspective (based on both fictional and other tales) is correct. It’s worth asking people like you who have gone to your school, and mixing that information with what you know about yourself. Third, if you decide the prices are worth paying, you have to be strong, decide what you can afford, and decide to handle being on the outside looking.

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What is the other perspective that we don’t hear about much? Are we talking about “What it’s like to be rich in the Ivy League (or another elite college)?” I’d like to be enlightened.

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Presumably, that is why some schools tune their admission requirements and criteria to make it easier for high SES students not needing (much) financial aid to be admitted, even while being need-blind. For example:

  • Use ED for much of the admission class (students needing financial aid are less likely to apply ED due to the need to compare financial aid offers).
  • Require lots of application materials that first generation and low SES students are less likely to know from peers and high school counselors (e.g. SAT subject tests, counselor recommendations, teacher recommendations, CSS Profile).
  • Require recommendations, since counselors and teachers at high schools with lots of first generation and low SES students may be less familiar with writing those which impress highly selective college admissions readers.
  • Be impressed by extracurricular achievements that require family money to participate (e.g. those which require extensive self-paid travel).
  • Require CSS Profile with non-custodial parent information. Since low SES students are more likely to come from broken families where the parents are uncooperative and/or poorer than their income indicates (due to spending money on divorce-related costs), this financial aid requirement automatically screens out many low SES students.

Of course, some schools have found that they have additional financial aid budget room and would like to attract more first generation and low SES students, so they back off on some of these criteria. For example, Harvard now only recommends, rather than requires SAT subject tests. Due to their previously stated indication of importance of SAT subject tests, it is likely that this is more aimed at first generation and low SES applicants who may not have realized that some colleges need them, while the typical high SES applicant is still expected to take them. Another example is Chicago, which no longer requires non-custodial parent information for financial aid purposes.

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I also found the title of this thread insensitive. lol “Respectable” private colleges? Does this mean the poor have no problems at the bad private colleges?

Anyway, I found the statistic at the end of the article interesting: 38% of undergraduates are first generation now, so being first gen can’t be considered anything unique overall anymore.

As the parent of two kids who attended these colleges (although not as first gen or low SES), there was a lot of adapting to do. While I don’t deny that the low SES kids probably have a tougher time in many ways, the elite Ivy campuses are SO diverse in every way, that this alone is probably a big adjustment for most students who grew up in one community most of their lives, and went to public high schools (like my kids). I think my kids would say that most of the other students at those colleges were not like them, but that is kind of the point of going there.

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For those reading this thread–highly recommend you take the time to listen to http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/550/three-miles

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Really? I’m curious as to why you’d like to be enlightened on this subject.

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While we’re certainly upper-middle SES these days, S has a friend whose family is significantly wealthier than we are. Maybe not Tiffanys, fancy sports cars, and chateaus in the South of France rich, but well-to-do. S has been close enough with this friend to see that family life in this home is less than ideal. One can be rich in STUFF and poor in other ways.

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@dietz199 Both an elite education and personal connections can open doors.

I see this with my own two kids, who are now in their late 20s.

Kid #1 went to a non-elite school, but had some doors opened to him because he went into a career field closely aligned with that of an older family member. In particular, he got two prestigious summer internships because of a personal connection.

Kid #2 went to an elite school but went into a professional field unrelated to the occupations of all other family members. Because of her elite school background, she has had some doors opened to her that would not have been available to her brother. But she’s never been able to take advantage of a family connection.

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One of the very positive experiences my kids got from going to an in-state school (wealthy people in our state usually go to private or out of state schools) was meeting a LOT of students who were putting themselves through school with loans and part time jobs and really appreciated the chance to attend classes. And not a lot of pressure to go on expensive spring breaks or have fabulous possessions.

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I’m rather curious to know just what it is these parents do for a living. I wonder if a lot of this is more about parent’s not teaching their children to be financially responsible and/or spending above their means so that their kids can keep up with the Joneses.

FWIW (and again anecdotally), I’ve seen this sort of behavior more at less selective schools with very high tuitions than at highly selective schools.

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If you really proud of your heritage, what is the problem?

I lived on $12,000 per year, and had fun, and lots of friends, and even saved some money :slight_smile: My richer friends were paying for me, if I didn’t have enough money for a restaurant, for example.

Each time I am told by someone that “this school is for snobby, rich kids” I say that, “snobby, rich kids” are part of diversity training for my kids.

In reality, I never met snobby, rich people, but I’ve met plenty of insecure people from various SES.

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dietz, just because affluent kids often had an easier time getting internships and jobs does not mean lower SES kids don’t successfully get them. Mine did, but it was not because I picked up the phone and called my friend, the CEO of a large company who expedited their application etc… The end result, though, is on graduation they were both able to find employment earning far more than their father or other men in their family ever made even in their prime earning years. So in our case, elite education did push them into a higher SES bracket.

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And this also depends on the campus culture of a given college.

For instance, the past thread about how some students avoided GWU because the campus culture had a prevalence of mostly upper/upper-middle class students wearing brand-name clothing, handbags, and accessories which would be out of the budget range for most of the middle-class and lower relates to some aspects covered in the article.

One which folks like PG downplayed by implying those who have issues with such a campus culture should “get over it” rather than avoiding GWU or other campuses with similar cultures. In the process, folks like her gloss over the real issues being in such cultures could cause for folks whose values don’t accord with open materialistic displays or moreso, lower SES students who are much more likely to stick out like a sore thumb on such campuses…whether in their own perceptions and/or reality.

In contrast, some other private colleges like many public colleges aren’t as ostentatious about displaying one’s SES through materialistic items such as the LAC I attended during my time there. If anything, most students were so casual or made it a point to dress unconventionally that one parent was quoted in an old edition of Fiske’s guide that “Oberlin students go out of their way to dress ugly.”

That’s not to say there was no classism at my college as there was a bit from a few ignorant classmates. However, the prevailing student culture there back then was such that open displays of classism would get one called out pretty quickly by other students and campus political activists. It was also greatly mitigated by a campus culture at the time which didn’t look kindly upon folks who were “showy” in a materialistic sense.

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“Do you live in a mansion?”

  • NO

“Why don’t you live in a mansion?”
-It is too expensive.

“Do you have servants?”
-No, although sometimes I wish I had.

“Why don’t you have a car?”

  • We have 2 cars. One car is very old, but it works perfectly well. When it breaks, we may buy a new car if we have enough money.

“Can you take us all to ----?”

  • No. But I can take you to -----

“Why don’t you buy nicer (more expensive) clothes?”

  • Because I have an active lifestyle. Besides, I don’t really care about expensive clothes.

“Why don’t you wear more makeup?”

  • I think it is not good for your skin. I try to avoid makeup, if possible.

“Can you dad/mom get me a job?”

  • Are you looking for an entry level job? I don’t think my parents are hiring for these types of jobs.
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Why should you try to “identify and respond” ??? OK it was easier for me. I speak poor English, I look different, so it was very easy for me to accept that I am from a different culture and never ever pretend to be a refined, rich girl.

I think the real lesson in diversity is to be comfortable among rich and poor, alike.

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There is somewhere between 40-60% full pay kids at many of these elite schools. Since Harvard offers to cover some costs for incomes up 165,000, it would mean there at least that many kids who have had lived a comfortable living most of their lives. So theoretically a lot more kids even on scholarship are starting middle class or above which means the poor at these school can truly feel the income gap.

Having said that, I think this is their opportunity to make lots of friends and contacts and not be apologetic about being poor. Think of Stanford Freshmen who have to mingle with Bill Gates D. Compared to her, the entire campus should feel really poor. It is all relative.

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AVR455, I think sometimes parents can’t actually afford to give their kids the spending money they “need,” but out of guilt or desire to see their child fit in, may do it anyway. An acquaintance of mine said she “had” to send her son around $300 a month spending money because he was at NYU and the city is very expensive and he and his friends like to go out on weekends. She and her husband are teachers, so I think that, on top of tuition, was a real stretch.