I think this is very unfair. Or if so, go ahead and attack me, too. The reason I say this is that I do not think that being socially clueless is confined, in whole or in part, to “low-SES” students. I think social cluelessness is an epidemic in the USA, but particularly among the young of all classes. Number two, I think that people of true character don’t need entire semester-long courses in how to be a civilized human being. They may be a tiny bit awkward about this or that, but that awkwardness, as long as it is genuine, is an endearing quality, and other students of character (character which includes generosity) will tend to tolerate that and gently correct or teach, including by role modeling. Third, I think that social cluelessness is a partly a result of an obsession with self and pleasure in the 21st century. We have “social media” which is, on the individual level (not groups), more about self-promotion and very little about social skills. Fourth, I think there is one heck of a lot of negligent parenting going on. I’ve had to tell student after student how to dress for their college interviews. Yes, to an extent, we all have to do that even with our own children, but I’m talking less about that than the horrified looks on student faces when I so much as suggest that shorts, flip flops, and sweat pants are unacceptable for itntrviews. They’re mortified and sometimes even **resentful ** that they should “have” to do that. That is not a matter of money, because I always also ask them, gently, if they happen to own a pair of (non-athletic shoes, regular pants, regular shirt not a T-shirt, etc.) This is not an indication of readiness for the Ivy League. And every one such student I counsel has parents loaded with money.
Yeah, you wouldn’t want to give a gift or share a bottle that was too good now, would you?
@scholarme Thank you notes and cards, while not at all required, are always very, very nice and can’t but help make the recipient feel good.
For me “wine” was just a placeholder for “something fairly generic the host would enjoy.”
As a college student my go-to gift was a small $3 plant from a shop within walking distance of campus. I don’t think my profs. ever expected us to spend money on a gift but it was an easy way to express my appreciation for the invitation. As an adult, if the place to which I’ve been invited is away from home I’ve often brought food produced in my home town.
I don’t think anyone would consider a guest who arrived empty-handed rude, even in places where hostess gifts are the norm, but it can make someone unaware of the convention feel like they’ve missed the memo to arrive at the doorstep without a token when everyone else is bringing one. I remember a friend getting a little angsty in this situation and since we arrived at the same time I just said something like, "Thank you for having us"as I handed the prof. what I’d brought.
And that’s really good manners.
The bottles I bring are usually in the $25-50 dollar range in current value. But no, I didn’t think I wanted to bring the $350 bottle. It might overshadow your fish.
BTW, these wines didnt cost that much when purchased (especially the $350 one-- that was a shocker!)
I didn’t interview this year, but have in the past. I always tell interviewees to wear whatever they wear to school. Because, believe it or not, for some of the kids I interview it IS about the $$$. I am not going to judge someone who wears sneakers to an interview. Good Will and Housing Works might not have dress shoes available in the right size and that’s where a few of the kids I’ve interviewed shop.
Again, I am not talking about those who can’t afford more than one pair of shoes. I’m talking about students with lots of options. Lots of them. Students who routinely upgrade electronics several times a year and whose parents drop thousands of dollars into extra preparation programs, overseas service opportunities, and the like. The thread is also not about whether you personally (or for that matter, I personally, or any poster personally) would “judge” such a student.
The thing is…I have no way of knowing before the kids show up for the interview whether or not their families can afford it. I just don’t know. Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but I thought you told the interviewees before they came what your “dress code” is for interviews.
Most of the kids I’ve interviewed attend a NYC public magnet–a different one than my own offspring attended. Some of the kids who attend it are from upper middle class families, but some are from poor families. I have no way of knowing before I meet them…and sometimes not even then.
There’s a thread in progress in the Cafe that seems relevant to this one.
In that thread, people are talking about how much they did (or didn’t) help their kids with the transition to their first post-college apartment.
It occurred to me that this is another area where kids from low-income families may be at a disadvantage even if they graduate from a top college and get an excellent post-college job.
Let’s say that the kid gets an offer for a good, career-oriented job, but the job doesn’t start until almost two months after graduation. (This happened to one of my kids.) Can the kid take the job? My kid could because we could afford to support her financially until her job started. But a kid from a low-income family might not be able to say yes to such a job.
Or let’s say that the kid is offered a job in another city, and the employer covers relocation expenses – but the company doesn’t give the new employee the relocation money until several weeks after the new job starts. (This happened to my other kid.) Can the kid take the job? My kid could because we were able to lend him the money he needed for relocation, which he paid us back after he was reimbursed. But a kid from a low-income family might not be able to say yes to such a job.
Things like this – which are trivial issues for kids from affluent families – could be major obstacles for kids from poorer families.
Were I a low-income high school senior who ventured into the Parents Forum and read some of the posts on this thread, I would be dismayed and discouraged by some of the insensitive remarks.
I am talking with a prospective low-income Ivy League student now and am somewhat at a loss about how to address the challenges this student might face. No doubt the student’s financial aid package is generous enough to fund tuition, room+board, and related expenses. But, there are so many other incidental expenses that can easily become a burden.
This Bloomberg article directs to a Columbia Facebook Confessions page and some of the posts are eye-opening:
Marian, great post.
To be honest, and incredibly unfortunate, you get used to it. And, again unfortunately, it’s not just comments on an internet board- it’s comments to your face or whispered behind your back that you hear. And it’s about a lot more things than education or social “deficiencies.”
I got used to people looking down their nose at me. I’ve learned that the best way to shut people up (or at least make myself feel better) is to succeed and be happy. 
I’m trying my best to convey this sentiment. If the student has gained entry and the school has sought him/her out, I say, take advantage of the opportunity for as much it offers. He who laughs last, laughs best.
My parents were certainly not able to help me with an apartment after college. And one of my roommates (a friend’s GF, nit anyone I would have moved in with otherwise) was furious when we lost one place because I didnt have the money to pay for the summer up front. I honestly don’t think it occurred to her that I couldn’t just call my parents and ask them to spot me a couple of thousand dollars.
@AttorneyMother I am in complete agreement with you on the insensitivity of posts on this thread, it is discouraging.
The stories on the Columbia Confessions page are heartbreaking.
I also am helping an ivy bound low income student right now. Right now, we’re focusing on the skills she needs to navigate situations like calling the university for help (pick an office - bursar, registrar, housing, financial aid, etc.). With no parent at home to help her, she will be making these calls and things like phone etiquette have never been passed down. Just yesterday we wrote out a script she can use to start off the call:
Hello, my name is __________
I am an incoming freshman and I am calling because I need help with___________
Who can I speak with for help with this issue?
Now most of us here on this forum helped our kids with stuff like this years ago but for the low income kids, this is the first time they will be really advocating for themselves and they have no idea where to begin. For a kid who has never made a dental or medical appointment, dealing with several different university offices can be daunting. Mentoring or an office dedicated to students in their situation can make all the difference.
@romanigypsyeyes - I read this article about the help University of Michigan is beginning to provide to low income students. While I agree the University could do more, I am heartened they are at least trying something. It’s a start, if nothing else.
http://caps.umich.edu/article/coming-out-first-generation-students-and-poor
DH didn’t have $ for a down payment on a car after he graduated. His job was not accessible via public transit. I loaned him $ from my next quarter’s tuition so he could get to work. He paid me back over his first two paychecks. He had no $ for a deposit on an apartment or for furniture; he wound up subletting from a friend who was studying abroad.
@SyrAlum thanks for the link. I, admittedly, don’t keep up with undergrad issues but I’m glad that they’re starting the conversation.
@SyrAlum,
Sounds like the scripts I gave my middle schooler this week when she needed a replacement library card and my college kid when he needed a letter of reference from last summer’s boss for this summer’s job. 
No one likes to look foolish and it’s especially difficult when you’re asking for something from someone in authority. My kids were worried that if they asked badly they’d either sound rude or not get what they needed. They had me to back them up. The kids you’re mentoring are lucky to have you. I think this is a lot of what these kinds of programs are about-giving kids the skills and confidence so they know they can ask for what they need in a way that’s both respectful and efficacious.