“Ellie Dupler, a junior global affairs major at Yale with wavy, reddish-brown hair and silver hoop earrings she picked up in Turkey on a Yale-funded trip, lived in a trailer with her single mother in northern Michigan until she was in the sixth grade.”
‘A Yale-funded trip.’ I think these schools try really hard to keep the academic experience on a even playing field. After hours? I don’t know if alumni would support that with funds? Would full-pays barely above the line be okay with that?
I do wonder why any school would be generous in aid and fail to provide a bridge program. Are there other top schools without a bridge program?
This is not an attempt to illicit any indignation or sympathy, as after the first 5 or 6 times, I found it just humorous, but through both law and business school, I was constantly confused (sometimes even by university staff and faculty) to be either the security guard, janitor or the campus bum. Must have happened over two dozen times–curiously they never saw the plethora of neon highlighters or backpack, just the large man of color.
I agree with the GFG, that the point of the article was that the students need more than money. They need experience, they need help with figuring out some of the things we (hopefully) taught our kids about managing money, filling out a tax return, what to do if a plane is cancelled and you have to get home another way. They need to be encouraged to speak up in class and not be worried about looking stupid for not knowing the difference between Salem Oregon and Salem Massachusetts (even rich people can mix them up), not knowing how to pronounce Pago Pago. A guy I went to school with was extremely smart, but grew up in a poor family, the stereotypical trailer park. He knew a lot because he read a lot, but couldn’t pronounce a lot of words.
My daughter was petrified going to school last fall, sure that she was going to look stupid because she hadn’t taken Calc AP in high school, sure everyone else at school would be better than her at her sport, in classes, that the sorority wouldn’t pick her, that she’d have no friends. When she figured out that she wouldn’t flunk out, that she was as good as anyone else, she was fine. She had me to talk her through it (except the calc part), but what these kids at the elite schools are saying is they don’t have anyone to help them and it is taking years to be able to speak up in class, to ask for help when they need it. They need to shorten the time from when they start school to when they are fully engaged. They don’t want people to pay for them but to mentor them like Oldfort had at his school. I think one difference now is that there are more students in the group that need help, and unlike Oldfort, they can’t all find a group to help. What they can do is help themselves, share their mentor, work together. The schools can help by just recognizing the issues.
What sector of the college should provide this bridge? Is this admissions? Counseling? Student services? And which kids? Pell Grant recipients only? Or should it be available to anyone who feels out of place economically and experientially? What should parents do to prepare their kids for the transition?
I am following this thread with interest because of the possibility of my son attending an Ivy League school as a Pell Grant recipient. I’m college educated as was my father (dh is not), but there’s a world of difference between where we went to school and an Ivy League. And yes, the wealth of the majority of students could be an issue…or not. I don’t know. I know my oldest son has seen and felt this economic gap at MIT, even though they really work to enroll an economically diverse student body.
@GMTplus7, i will get that pleasure of being full pay or almost full pay for both kids. I get the honor and pleasure of both experiences. Now that really ***********.
As I said earlier, that it the way it is. I am glad I went to school as first gen. I will have mixed feeling paying for college now since I will hate paying so much but also pride since I can. My kids won’t have the money issues I did when I attended. There aren’t getting the 3-5 hundred dollar allowance a month but won’t worry about paying for books and should be able to go out eat once a week.
@SlitheyTove thanks for posting the link to This American Life. Now I have the right word for what I have done with my own kids “exposure”. We have traveled, gone to events, and taken many opportunities to do things just so they would “be comfortable in their own skin” doing all those things. I chose not to even apply to colleges that would have required a flight because that was not a way I had traveled but I know my kids could do that easily. I remember my best friend in elementary school not knowing how to order for herself in a restaurant. Her family was large and they did not eat out much. I remember her discomfort and my surprise that this person I thought was so special being unable to do something that, to me, was so simple. She still lives in that small town we grew up in. I do not. Everyone should be permitted to make their own choices about where they want to live, go to school and work but no one should feel that they cannot achieve their goals simply because they do not deserve to.
Regarding that “Yale funded trip”. My daughter’s a full-pay kid at Yale, and she’s gone on trips as part of her academics, and she’s been funded by Yale (astrophysics major-- trip to Areceibo Observatory during fall break). It’s not like there’s a sliding scale.
Can someone please explain their “logic” in assuming that a person who grows up in a large house, drives a BMW, has traveled to foreign countries, etc. is therefore “spoiled” or of a bad or lazy moral character or must not be grateful for his or her lifestyle and good fortune or is completely clueless that not everyone has a BMW?
" Their friends all had vacation homes–often more than one; most had attended prep schools or if not, public schools in very affluent areas; and their parents rubbed shoulders and played golf with people whose names we see in the news. It was a culture shock for them. While my kids didn’t lack for essentials like bus tickets or meals, they certainly did not have enough money to participate in the same activities as their peers. They could not accompany their friends on weekend ski trips, or expensive spring break excursions, or treat their friends in the ways others did (e.g. group birthday outings to concerts, etc.). "
Just using this as a jumping-off point …
I think the whole goal is to get your kids comfortable enough with money that they can navigate with ease any situation, whether it’s being sensitive to friends who don’t have a lot or in feeling happy-for and not jealous-of friends who get to do a lot more.
"People are not dealing with reality if they don’t think there aren’t very wealthy, BMW-driving, foreign-country-visiting kids at every state flagship there under the sun. This isn’t an Ivy/elite school issue.
Actually, it is.
The BMW-driving, foreign-country-visiting kids at state flagships are in the minority. Most of their classmates can’t keep up with them in terms of spending money, and they don’t expect to. It’s the rich kids who have to conform to what the less affluent kids are doing.
My son went to a state flagship. Our family doesn’t drive BMWs, but we’re not poor, either, and he had a reasonable amount of spending money, mostly from the part-time jobs he had held in high school. During his freshman year, I asked him whether he and his friends ever ate at any of the attractive restaurants near the university. He gave me a LOOK and said “Mom, there are all kinds of people here. Many of them have very little money. They can’t afford to skip a dining hall meal they’ve already paid for and eat somewhere else. So we eat in the dining hall and then do things afterwards.”"
These points are not inconsistent. Plenty of wealthy BMW-driving well-traveled kids at state flagships – AND they are doing the exact same things as the other kids, eating in the dining halls, playing video games at someone’s apartment, going to low-cost movies on campus.
There seems to be this odd stereotype that the “rich kids” are doing “rich kid” things.
^And plenty of wealthy, well traveled, full-pay kids at elite schools who do not drive BMWs and who are living off the pizza and video game budgets their summer jobs support. Most wealthy kids I know have parents who work very hard to keep their kids grounded. People notice the few outliers with unlimited budgets and IMHO extrapolate to all kids of a certain level of economic means.
Isn’t the bottom line that you have to play the cards you are dealt? A moment spent wishing things were different is wasted time.
Who cares what some pretentious person may think. If they lack maturity, empathy or compassion that is their issue and why would you want to be around them any way!
Our daughter is at an Ivy and we are full pay, and while we live a comfortable life we aren’t rolling in it. Our daughter has a wonderful friend group and they would not spend a second of time with someone who wasn’t welcoming of other kids from all walks of life. For them it is about the person not about their financial circumstances. Kids who have come from modest or more difficult financial backgrounds are very much respected and highly regarded, that is provided they are decent people.
This ongoing preoccupation with what others have is foolish in my opinion.
If someone is concerned about things other than are you a considerate and decent person why would you want to be associated with them?
Something else occurred to me that I believe is important in this conversation.
All of the kids who are at these most selective colleges share something in common. They have worked remarkably hard to be there. That common ground means a lot to the vast majority of these kids.
Well, no. I think a lot of those kids order in sushi and go out for meals instead of eating in the dining halls. They go out to bars instead going to someone’s apartment. It is especially the case at colleges where they are close to (or in) major cities. One can only spend so much money in Ithaca, but sky is the limit in NYC/Boston/LA. This is something to consider when your kid is choosing his college.
At my fancy LAC years ago, they literally went to NYC and recruited a bus load of URMs. I know they came earlier in the summer for orientation, but I am not sure what they did at the orientation. One of my friend’s roommate was such URM. They were good roommates, but they didn’t run in the same circle outside of their room. This woman did very well after she graduated, as number of other URM students. I don’t think it was particularly easy for her while she was in school, but she may not have done as well if she wasn’t given the opportunity at my LAC.
And here, at last, is the point.
My son is about to graduate from Yale, has worked his tail off, and will soon start one of those famous investment jobs. Has he had to deal with feeling “less than” on occasion? You bet, but we knew that going in. And he will start out in his career way past where I will end in mine.
Yale has been very, very generous and we are very, very grateful.
I think that’s an internal thing. I grew up living in a row house in a working class (at best) neighborhood, then my father’s career took off and we were “elevated.” But we never had a sense, even when we were on the poorer side, that we were “less than” people who had money. We just were raised to have a certain level of dignity and belief in ourselves such that it wasn’t intimidating to meet someone with more money - they weren’t better or worse people, they were just people with more money, that’s all. As they say, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Hmmm…I wonder what the philanthropic habits of all these “poor” students are who are being given a leg up. Once they graduate and exercise whatever advantages there are to be had from their Ivy experience, do they become a force for positive social change?
Or do they go on to simply take their place in “the 1%” and generate a new round of students who are, by definition, interested in maintaining their privilege?
Ouch, that’s a little too QED for me!
You surprise me with that interpretation! Less privileged, less traveled, less experienced, less connected, and certainly not as well-dressed…but inferior?! Not in the least! No more than I feel reading through this thread…and my father’s career (as a baker) never took off.
Well, JustOneDad, as I mentioned upthread, it is striking to note that the first two Harvard students interviewed in the Boston Globe article became sociology majors. This, presumably, to better understand not only their profound personal experiences, but also to analyze how the world surrounding them is structured, and what it may take to change it for the better. Sociologists generally aren’t presumed to be part of the proverbial 1%.