<p>Hey everyone,
I was reading a whole bunch of threads on this topic and as I am a junior in high school, the fear of not being accepted to college for Vocal Performance is starting to settle in. I'm applying to 10 schools, but all of them require an audition. I know that there is no way to determine my "chances" with them. My schools are:
BU, CMU, Duquesne (Mary Pappert), IU, Illinois Wesleyan, U of Miami (Frost), U of Cincinnati (CCM), NYU (Steinherdt), Northwestern, Syracuse
I visited CMU, Duquesne, and BU and had voice lessons with a teacher at each. All of them said that I should definitely consider applying and auditioning and reassured me that I have a chance. But, I'm realistic, and for all I know that could have been total bs to get more applicants and lower statistics and things of the sort. Nevertheless, I definitely know that I want a safety school because I've been looking forward to college since I was in 8th grade. So although there are options for someone who doesn't get in anywhere, I'd rather go to a school I didn't like for a year and then try to transfer than stay at home or take a year off.
What is the definition of a safety school for music? I live in NYC - should I look at Suny Purchase? My grades are not very amazing, a 3.2-3.3 GPA, but that's way up from the Cs I used to get. So, I'm worried about my chances at schools that have good music programs applying for a BA without an audition or things a lot that line.
Any advice? Are there programs that you can apply to in April or May still?
Anything would be appreciated.
Thanks so much,
Stacey</p>
<p>you don't say whether you are already in a pre-college program or have been attending summer programs. Teachers in these programs can be quite helpful in identifying different possibilities for you.
Living in NYC you should have many good "safety" options, including Queens College (AaronCopeland School: <a href="http://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu/music/%5B/url%5D">http://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu/music/</a>) as well as both SUNY Purchase and Stony Brook which have rolling admissions and should give you some comfortable options as you begin applying next fall. Best wishes!</p>
<p>I auditioned at 4 schools this year- USC (Thornton), UMiami (Frost), Oklahoma City Univ, and U of OK (in-state school, had to apply). </p>
<p>USC was my wild card. My dream school, however, I got rejected. It was more than likely because of my low test scores than anything (1700 SAT, 28 ACT).</p>
<p>I applied to OU as my safety school. It's in-state and was my absolute last choice. I've never been a fan of OU and dislike what it has come to stand for. The audition day was incredibly disorganized and they didn't have a warm up room in the building I auditioned in. I had to warm up two buildings over, pack up, and go in to my audition. My audition itself wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great. One of the professors walked in on my audition while I was playing.</p>
<p>Anyways, I didn't get in to OU, my safety school. They don't even have a good music school! This was the first letter I got from a music school, so I kinda freaked out. If I couldn't get into OU, how was I supposed to get into USC or Miami?</p>
<p>I got rejected from USC-which was kind of expected- and ended up being accepted into Miami (frost)! I got into OCU with a very large music scholarship and am still waiting to hear from UM on scholarships.</p>
<p>From my experience, I do not believe that there really is a safety school for music. One other thing is that it kinda depends on your intended major. I see your performance and performance will be tough wherever you go!</p>
<p>I think finding a safety is sort of a personal thing. It all depends on the person. Find someone who can give you an honest evaluation of your talent. It was reccomended to me that you have your safeties, then the ones that you are sure to get into and then some reaches. My safety was Bowling Green State University. We kind of threw it in at the last moment.</p>
<p>SUNY-Purchase is definitely not a good safety; it's about as selective as BU or CMU for music, although academics matter less there.</p>
<p>As long as there is an audition process to get into a school, you cannot consider it a true safety. It sounds like you are doing the next best thing - applying to a range of schools where the faculty has agreed that you have a legitimate chance. Music teachers at the schools you mentioned do not need to feed you a line of BS to get their numbers up and doing so would only make them have to sit through a lot more auditions, so I would take what they say at face value.</p>
<p>It would also be a good idea to apply to two or three schools with rolling admissions or with a non-binding early review process. If you can audition at these schools between October and December and have an acceptance somewhere by the end of the calendar year, that takes a lot of the pressure off the auditions in the January-March time frame.</p>
<p>If you really need a safety for peace of mind, look for a school that is an academic safety and does not require an audition to declare as a music major. The applied lessons and performance ensembles there are not likely to be in the same league as the schools on your list, but you can take basic music theory, music history, secondary piano lessons and freshman English classes and look to transfer in a year if none of your auditioned schools come through.</p>
<p>The only true safety for music would be one that doesn't require an audition and admits most applicants. But you could at least find a "safer" school - perhaps a large state university with a large music program, or a smaller college that has a "less good" voice program and might be eager for more applicants. For instance, my S had a classmate a few years ahead of him who not only got a full scholarship for music at a small state school here -- they actually PAID her to come, because they were trying to build up their program. She was a horn player, like S, but wasn't especially good.</p>
<p>Another alternative to finding a music safety would be to have a "back up plan." For instance, find an academic-safety school you'd be happy with, and just take private voice lessons for a year, and try again with auditions the following year. Find a rolling admission school, apply early, and you'll probably have an "atleast I'm going somewhere" school in your pocket well before auditions, so it takes the pressure off.</p>
<p>Another "back-up plan" is to take a year off. That was my S's "safety". His plan was to study privately for a year if he didn't get in anywhere. (He only applied to 4 schools.)</p>
<p>10 schools are too many. That is not only a bunch of applications, and audition fees, travel expenses, and missed school. It is also a lot of auditions. You won't have time to focus for them. You'll end up stressed and overwhelmed. Try to whittle your list down to 6 or so. Pick the 6 you like the best, where the teacher has been most encouraging, or where your own teacher thinks you have the best shot, and add an non-audition safety.</p>
<p>[Edit: crossposted with Bassdad! Great minds and all that....]</p>
<p>My DD's "safety schools" are actually going to be applications to Liberal Arts Schools with good music depts for non-music majors (probably Spanish or Social Studies Ed). That way she can still study music on the side. For some this may not be the option. For my DD, who has not had the option of a decent high school music career due to many factors it is just a safety measure. Academically she has excelled always and has already been nominated for a University of Rochester Humanities award. Her PSAT scores were in the 97th percentile, probably not good enough for National Merit but good enough. Unfortunately, due to my lack of knowledge and lack of time/money to get the her musical education she needs (and for this reason alone she aspires to be a music teacher) she probably isn't up to snuff for conservatory level or for music major level. We know this and she is ok as long as she can continue to be musically creative in college at some level (she also enjoys musical theater). Now here is the kicker, her non-music "safety schools" are Brown and Barnard. Not very safe...we still are talking.</p>
<p>As far as a music safety school goes I have known musicians of less caliber and experience than her that have gotten into Crane. Crane is a good school by all accounts but knowing this gives us a certain comfort all while maintaining a knowledge that she can have a great audition and not get into a great school and have a bad audition at a "safety" school and not get in either. YIKES!!!</p>
<p>Hi Momof3, I don't find your DD's LA "safeties" unusual at all, but recommend that she contact the relevant music people (conductors, directors, etc) at those schools and ask to play/sing for them. This can often make a big difference, especially if the school orchestra/performance ensemble is in need of particular instruments/voices. You can usually contact the music department to see who evaluates the supplemental material (tapes) that D will be sending. Our D did this at several ivies she applied to, with excellent results.</p>
<p>"Now here is the kicker, her non-music "safety schools" are Brown and Barnard. Not very safe...we still are talking." </p>
<p>In fact, not the least bit safe by any stretch of the imagination for anyone. Brown was particularly hard for admissions this year and it's never easy- just look at the Brown board!</p>
<p>Thanks so much to everyone, I guess my next question would be - what are schools that are less selective? I've talked several different people including admissions staff and as far as they are concerned, they think I will get into CMU, Miami, Syracuse, and Duquesne. The rest are up in the air. With those in mind, what are less selective?
Any advice would be appreciated. And thanks to the ideas of a year off, but I'd really like to get out of my house.
Thanks,
Stacey</p>
<p>Stacey,
LOL, You are funny. You want to get out of your house and I appreciate that. I don't know how your GPA is but since you are coming up to audition for Syracuse why not swing over to look at Hamilton, Cornell, and Ithaca? </p>
<p>Cornell and Hamilton do not appear to have audition requirements (see Hamilton's here: <a href="http://www.hamilton.edu/admission/ApplicationProcess/supplement.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.hamilton.edu/admission/ApplicationProcess/supplement.pdf</a>) .<br>
Ithaca does audition but could be a good option for you as well if you are in the neighborhood. All are within a couple hour drive of SU. Hamilton is probably about an hour or so away but right off the Thruway.</p>
<p>Maybe not a safety but a little less selective. I also have a friend who's DD goes to Adelphi and absolutely loves it. She is a Theater major but also sings a lot and takes a lot of vocal training there.</p>
<p>NYCM: Thanks for the advice. I would not have thought of that but will definitely take it into consideration. This site continues to be a wealth of info.</p>
<p>FiddleMom: I know, I know. These are not very safe schools but to me "safe" is the Community College down the road where most of my DD's classmates will end up for 2 whole years if they are lucky. We teach our kids to reach for the stars and that they can do anything. Her non-music safety schools are not safe for anyone not intending on a music major. I don't worry, she will be ok. I do worry about the friend she has who is brilliant and beautiful and just enlisted in the Marines because "she didn't have a college plan for next year" (according to my DD). Where was our school's Guidance Dept when this girl needed her? I have no probelm with enlisting in the armed forces if that is what the child wants but I do have a problem with so many kids enlisting because they just don't know what else they can do. (OK, I think I just turned this into something else but it has been weighing on me)</p>
<p>I would seriously question anyone who says that they think you will get into a program like CMU or Miami as a music major before they have heard you (and most of your likely competition) sing. Syracuse and Duquesne may be in that category as well, but I do not know how selective their vocal programs are these days. Admissions staff in particular are suspect because they should know better and because recruitment is part of their job. It is possible that they are correct, but there are so many variables involved that I wonder how they would be able to make such a prediction nearly a year in advance.</p>
<p>The schools that you list in the original posting are quite diverse, other than they all have a music department. Are there any additional criteria that might guide us in suggesting other schools of interest?</p>
<p>Momof3: Thanks so much. I'll definitely look into them.</p>
<p>BassDad: Sorry, maybe I didn't make myself clearer. The people who have talked to me about my chances are people who I've gone and had voice lessons with at various schools including those as well as my private voice teacher and my school voice teacher. I wouldn't trust anyone else. What I meant by admissions staff were music teachers that I auditioned for at the school who run the admissions/auditions process and who are at the auditions next year. The judgements they made had solely to do with the music school, not with the actual university. And yes, I agree, it depends on the year and my competition, but what they told me was that I should definitely consider applying and that I have enough talent that I could possibly get into a place like (insert school I named above).
Sorry, if i didn't make that clear earlier.</p>
<p>Yeah, I don't really have a big criteria. I'd rather small than big which is why Indiana and CCM are at the bottom of my list. And one of the reasons I don't like BU is because there is rarely a campus. But, otherwise, just a school with a good music program is all I really care about. If I learn from someone who inspires me to make myself a better musician and to teach me how, then it doesn't matter much where I am, I guess. (I know that sounds corny) Just not across the country, because I have a slight fear of flying.</p>
<p>Thanks so much everyone for all of your help,
Stacey</p>
<p>OK, that is a bit clearer. You have been told by a number of voice teachers at some very reputable schools that you have a solid chance of admission and should apply there. Having a good teacher is your primary concern. You prefer a small school that is within driving distance of NYC, which for you includes places as far away as Miami, Chicago and Bloomington. You like the idea of a traditional campus as opposed to one integrated into a city, such as BU or NYU.</p>
<p>Let me think about that for a bit and I will get back to you.</p>
<p>Here are some of the schools that my daughter's friends applied to that were not necessarily at the top of their lists, but which seem to meet some of your criteria:</p>
<p>Bowling Green State University
The College of New Jersey
Indiana University of Pennsylvania (perhaps a bit large)
North Carolina School for the Arts
Otterbein College
Shenandoah University
St. Olaf College (if Minnesota is not too far)
Susquehanna University
Westminster Choir College</p>
<p>I know nothing about the voice teachers at these places, but some of my daughter's friends were pretty talented singers and I don't think they would apply to these places with no reason. You will still have to do a lot of your own research to see if any of them look interesting to you.</p>
<p>One of her friends is now attending St. Olaf and another is at Susquehanna and both really like their schools. I have sung with several grads of Westminster and have been uniformly impressed. I agree with binx that auditioning at more than about six schools will be exhausting, but you may be able to make a tape to send to others. You will probably have to make a tape anyway for the schools that pre-audition vocalists. Good luck!</p>
<p>I'm not sure I can buy this idea that there is no such thing as a "safety school" for a performance program. Certainly, admission standards are somewhat subjective and auditions are risky, but if somebody who is at the level required to get into Curtis auditions for the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, well, there's just not much doubt that they'll be admitted.</p>
<p>I really don't think such a status can be designated on any place, because the process is so subjective and dependent on the personal tastes of your judge(s) at your audition or interview (if you are applying for composition). I guess maybe a university setting versus a academy-style conservatory setting could be seen as a safer option, but it still is going to come down to the audition/interview. I was rejected from the CMU composition department but accepted at Oberlin with a pretty sizeable merit scholarship, even though common knowledge and opinion seems to suggest that CMU would be easier to get into than Oberlin; I think that sort of sums up the idea here. You can't really place different schools on a scale of objective difficulty as far as acceptance, because it's being evaluated on totally subjective terms.</p>
<p>Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, Bassdad. That is exactly what I was looking for. My sister went to IUP, so I'll definitely do research on that and the rest.
To the rest, I didn't mean that one school is better than the other or things like that, I was just looking for some less known schools, like the ones listed above, rather than the "best schools for music" so that the competition isn't as high. I agree that schools for music are subjective, rather than other schools that are based on grades and things like that. But, some schools have higher selective programs while some take more people each year.</p>
<p>Thanks again BassDad,
Stacey</p>
<p>It has to do with semantics, sometimes. The only important part of the term is understanding which way you are defining it. "Safety" is interpreted by some as "sure bet" or "back up plan" and by others as "safer" or "less selective." I imagine you fall in the second camp, operasinger. </p>
<p>Those in the first camp usually have one safety school on their list (don't need more than one sure bet) and those in the second might have several (because there are no guarantees.) An example of a true sure bet is a school that doesn't have auditions and admits nearly all of their students. Your local community college probably fits that definition.</p>
<p>But most students are looking for a couple schools in the second camp - somewhat less threatening, with a higher chance of being selected. That word "chance" is what tanque is referring to. There are always surprises - schools you thought would be easier, but didn't work out for one reason or another. Slots filled with teacher's pre-known students, or fewer slots available, or auditioning with a sore throat, or a stellar list of applicants that year - all with the same safeties...</p>
<p>My own suggestion would be to add a couple "less selective" schools and forego the true safety for now -- because most true safeties have application deadlines that go right up until the start of the school year -- so you don't need to apply until it becomes obvious that you're going to need it!</p>