<p>Do you know for sure that the person who called the police did so with bigotry? The answer is no, you don’t. Because if they knew that the only way police will remove a noisy group is if they are trespassing, then an ornery student trying to cram amidst noise could certainly have made the unneighborly decision to say what is necessary to try to disperse the event.<<</p>
<p>This is silly. We didn't only hear from hotpiece; we also heard from Harvard itself.</p>
<p>I agree, and I never said otherwise. I do object to ruining the pristine landscape of a five year olds little heart. If a three year old makes a race distinction, it is environmentally taught. Choosing a doll which resembles you says nothing about how you feel about race relations! Children are very pure and may notice that people look different, but assign no political meanings to those differences. To them, skin shades have a meaning no greater than what you find in a box of crayons.<<</p>
<p>You have the experiment wrong. White and black kids were presented with white or black dolls they could choose. Both sets of kids chose white dolls, because white was perceived to be more valuable. The study was recently redone, and I hope anyone reading this thread takes the time to watch this video ("A Girl Like Me"):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAOZhuRb_Q8%5B/url%5D">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAOZhuRb_Q8</a></p>
<p>Where do you live that it's such a bubble that kids aren't able to pick up differing societal expectations? In NYC, for instance, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist of a child to note that nannies seem to be mostly of color and the moms who hire them are white. It's not hard for them to see that the "elite" private schools are full of white kids and the public schools with kids of color. They don't see too many white supers for buildings or groundskeepers.</p>
<p>Thanks, Northstarmom. I posted the YouTube video.</p>
<p>
That wasn't the only way to get them to be quiet. In what world is calling the police for trespassing the answer to noise disruption?</p>
<p>And I already said, the reason I haven't addressed those questions is because neither you nor I can know the answers for sure. But, as 2incollege said, racism can also be subconscious. I doubt that these kids said or thought "Those people don't look like Harvard students because they are black." But could it have been the underlying reason why the Cabot kids felt uncomfortable with their presence on the lawn? Sure.</p>
<p>And once again, you have failed to answer my question, this is like the 8th time you've dodged it.</p>
<p>And by the way, if you think winning is repeating the same tired argument over and over, then you are sadly mistaken.</p>
<p>Research at Stanford on subconscious racism:</p>
<p>"STANFORD GRADUATE SCHOOL OF BUSINESS — Negative stereotypes about various racial groups bombard us every day in the mass media and deposit their residue deep into our minds, often without our realizing it, says Brian Lowery. Even among the most well-intentioned and consciously egalitarian people, says the assistant professor of organizational behavior, non-conscious associations about ethnic groups still have a pernicious effect on behavior and attitudes.</p>
<p>The good news, he says, is that we can also be influenced for the better, particularly by social relationships with people who strongly value egalitarian ideals.</p>
<p>Lowery's work moves the dialogue on racism beyond simple dichotomies that divide people into categories of "good" and "bad" according to their views on people of a different race or ethnicity. "The situation is much more complex," he says. Even people who consciously disavow prejudice can fall into racist traps.</p>
<p>In one study, for example, Lowery demonstrated how racial stereotypes subtly operate in the penal system. Los Angeles police and probation officers were asked to make judgments about a hypothetical adolescent (whose race was not identified) who had allegedly either shoplifted or assaulted a peer. Certain officers were first subliminally exposed to words commonly associated with African Americans (such as ghetto, homeboy, dreadlocks, etc.) on a rapidly flashing computer screen so that they took in the information subconsciously. In contrast to subjects who did not receive this "priming," officers with the subconscious messaging attributed more negative traits and greater culpability to the hypothetical offenders, and they endorsed harsher punishment—all typical responses to black as opposed to white offenders.</p>
<p>In other words, by simply unconsciously thinking about black people, officers suddenly began seeing a neutral situation in racially stereotypical terms—without even knowing it...." <a href="http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/research/hr_racialstereotypes.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/research/hr_racialstereotypes.shtml</a></p>
<p>From a conference at University of Michigan's Law School:
"Substantial empirical and theoretical work in cognitive social psychology and critical sociology offers new progressive formulations for antidiscrimination law. This impressive body of research has confirmed that much of society’s racism is not a series of unconnected, intentional acts, but is a collective, historically-influenced, institutionalized and and often subconscious process. According to these studies, all of us have cognitive biases that influence how we perceive and make decisions about other people.[5] In other words, the behavior of human beings is often guided by racial and other stereotypes of which we are completely unaware. [6] </p>
<p>The human mind relies on categorization as a basic tool for interpreting perceptions, encoding those perceptions into memory, and making both conscious and subconscious decisions based on those perceptions and memories. “[P]eople continually use cognitive shortcuts—exaggerations, oversimplifications, generalizations—to allow them to prioritize and, in some gross way, make sense of the overload of incoming information. Racial stereotyping is one method that people employ almost automatically in order to understand their surroundings.” [7] To take an Implicit Association Test, which measures unconscious bias, go to <a href="https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/%5B/url%5D">https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/</a>. </p>
<p>This extensive empirical and theoretical work shows that the current law ignores much of what we understand about how the human mind works. The “intentionalist” view of discrimination and the law linked to it thus misunderstand the actual cognitive dynamics of discrimination. Many of these powerful studies and theories, however, are not being fully utilized on the front lines of the political debate or in courtrooms by civil rights advocates. "</p>
<p>Thank you for posting that the links to this research, Northstarmom. They confirm something I think I've known for a very long time: That the heavy weight of three CENTURIES of national history, continual re-enforcement of negative racial stereotypes, and the natural tendency of humankind to favor cognitive shortcuts and categorizations when confronting life's myriad scenarios (especially social ones), make racism the most plausible explanation for the Harvard students' reaction to the group on the lawn. In this case I believe it was most likely subconscious racism. I would bet that most of them never see themselves as capable of racism, would say that's not how they were raised.</p>
<p>And It isn't that they're "bad people". Most of them are young people trying their best to live a good and decent life, just trying to make their way in the world, hoping for the best. But the simple fact is that they, like all of us, are products of our histories (both individual and collective). That history still dictates that white is the default preference under most circumstances. If you're white and have grown up confident of this social fact, you don't likely notice the ways in which it is constantly reinforced to the social detriment of the "other". And when I say "confident", I don't mean consciously so. Aren't you confident of your next breath? Haven't you always known there would be air to breathe? You don't think about it. You don't have to. It's a flawed analogy to some degree, I know, but I'm running short on time this afternoon and I don't have time to reason out a more accurate one.</p>
<p>I read the link provided earlier that excerpted the after-the-fact email exchange of many Cabot House residents. I was heartened by it, because to me, it showed kids, mostly with good hearts, wrestling with the issue as honestly as they know how. In the end, honest self assessment is the only way forward.</p>
<p>NAJ7488: “In what world is calling the police for trespassing the answer to noise disruption?”</p>
<p>You’re sorta funny, you know that? Your technique is to go back to pretending (?) to not see answers I’ve given, many times, while simultaneously ignoring the many questions I just posted to you.</p>
<p>Do you not read posts? Maybe you aren’t pretending not to see things. Maybe you really aren’t reading all this stuff. Then you pop up and make statements from left field. Take a magnifying glass, and peruse the threads. Come across multiple comments I made about how rude and unneighborly I thought it was to call the police on fellow classmates. Stop. Stare. Ingest. </p>
<p>I have a bunch of posts since my last one with some excellent points, arguments, and thoughts. I am running an errand and will be back later to respond to them (something I look forward to). Nothing personal BTW, NAJ7488, but your contribution to this debate hasn’t been as weighty as others arguing your position. It’s bugging me, b/c there is some cool stuff on here that I want to spend time on and I keep needing to get your inflammatory comments out of the way before I can. GRRR</p>
<p>Northstarmom: “You are right that it is through their environment that people learn to make racial distinctions and assumptions about people due to people's race. Learning to do those things happens far younger than you are aware.”</p>
<p>Not necessarily Northstarmom. I am aware of it. It just isn’t something you can say about every child, everywhere. Where did the study take place? In many different places? 2incollege described the situation in NYC in a recent post. Not everywhere in the US is the same. Where I live, there are no African American nannies taking care of Caucasian children (well, I am sure there may be one somewhere, but in a decade living here I have never seen it). I had heard of this study before – it is compelling and I am sure very valid. But it doesn’t represent all people all places. Some of us might have done a good job offsetting racism learned from the environment with exposure to a better view of the world.</p>
<p>My point about teaching 5 year olds about racism is more valid in terms of the bad outcome it can have. IN my opinion, it is miseducation. It can encourage racism, as it promotes a hyper focus on skin color at too young of an age. Even if a child has been exposed to negative stereotypes in the environment, I still think the best remedy is play rather than preaching weighty material which is beyond the age. </p>
<p>Young children are sponges for lessons about friendship. That is where they are developmentally. Abstract thought comes in at puberty, and other things in between. Playing with kids of all races is the best teacher for a very young child (a Rudolf Steiner, if you will, approach to fighting racism). Learn the reality first (that people are the same, no matter what their skin color). Learn the history second (after the truth is in your heart).</p>
<p>Northstarmom: “News flash: Most things that are discussed on CC don't have witnesses from all sides posting. CC has message boards. It's not CNN or another news outlet that is obligated to have witnesses from all sides when airing a story.</p>
<p>Your suggestion that moderators should delete this thread because of unfairness to Harvard is ludicrous.”</p>
<p>I was not the person who proposed it – Embroglio did. I agreed. This is not a typical CC thread. Fairness to the university’s reputation would be nice. I am mostly concerned about fairness to the students who were accused of racism but denied it. No one from their side is here to give that story. Thousands are reading this thread, and many know who those Cabot students are. Instinctively, in a delicate situation such as this it feels very wrong for all sides not to have equal time (or at least some time).</p>
<p>Fairness is never “ludicrous”.</p>
<p>I also think this thread has some insults and bickering, which might not be in line with CC’s TOS. Certainly, there are racist remarks on it which could rival anything that could have happened at Harvard. Because of this, I feel it is a dicey thread, and something with which I am not completely comfortable.</p>
<p>Your last post - excellent links and analysis. I have to go - now I am late, but will read and respond to it (and 2incollege) later.</p>
<p>
I'm funny? You're the funny one. I've already told you numerous times why I have not addressed your other questions, but you keep writing that as an excuse to not address mine. You said that these kids called the police about trespassing because that was the only way to control the noise situation. But that makes no since whatsoever to me. And that is the first time you've even come close to addressing my one concern.</p>
<p>"Not necessarily Northstarmom. I am aware of it. It just isn’t something you can say about every child, everywhere. Where did the study take place? In many different places? 2incollege described the situation in NYC in a recent post. Not everywhere in the US is the same."</p>
<p>Certainly, not everyone in the U.S. is the same, but everyone in the U.S. is influenced by U.S. norms, the media, etc.</p>
<p>You don't need to have ever seen a black person in real life to have been influenced by how blacks have been viewed by U.S. society. Television, newspaper articles, magazines, children's books, art, popular music all include depictions of black people, many of which are stereotypical.</p>
<p>"Fairness to the university’s reputation would be nice. I am mostly concerned about fairness to the students who were accused of racism but denied it. No one from their side is here to give that story. Thousands are reading this thread, and many know who those Cabot students are. Instinctively, in a delicate situation such as this it feels very wrong for all sides not to have equal time (or at least some time)."</p>
<p>People discuss in real life and on message boards things all of the time in which others can't give their opinion. This is not debate club in which there are rules about things like this. Meanwhile, should the Cabot House residents who called the police wish to comment here, no one is preventing their doing so.</p>
<p>
So you mean to tell me that "many" Harvard students (who also happen to be familiar with the Cabot students) are all reading this thread, right now? I doubt that more than a few Harvard kids troll these boards. Secondly, us posting in this thread has no bearing on their opinion. If as many Harvard students as you think are currently on this message board, then they already heard about the situation and formed an opinion because it was all over the school press. Why on earth, would they change their opinion based on the ideas in this thread? </p>
<p>
Why is this not a typical CC thread? A ton of threads discuss current events at colleges (good and bad), race, and racism. What makes this thread so special that it should be shut down for fear of tarnishing a college's reputation?</p>
<p>Northstarmom: “You are right that it is through their environment that people learn to make racial distinctions and assumptions about people due to people's race….Learning to do those things happens far younger than you are aware.”</p>
<p>I am aware that children can be influenced by their environments at ages far younger than 5.</p>
<p>Northstarmom: "Miss [Kiri] Davis, a senior at Urban Academy High School in New York City, also recreates psychologist Kenneth Clark's legendary 1940s "Doll Test" in the film and obtains similar results. Dr. Clark's research was used to challenge school segregation in the landmark U.S. Supreme Court case Brown vs. Board of Education.”</p>
<p>A lot has changed – thank God – since the 1940’s. I am not sure about the statistical validity of the recreation. I do not believe that TODAY, the majority of children of any race in this country would choose a certain skin colored doll because of a perception that it was “superior”.</p>
<p>Northstarmom: “RE: Research at Stanford on subconscious racism: Even among the most well-intentioned and consciously egalitarian people, says the assistant professor of organizational behavior, non-conscious associations about ethnic groups still have a pernicious effect on behavior and attitudes.”</p>
<p>Thank you for the link, but this is common sense – who could disagree? It still doesn’t mean that the Harvard incident was such an instance. It also could explain why some students were quick to accuse the Cabot residents of racism.</p>
<p>Northstarmom/Stanford Research: “The good news, he says, is that we can also be influenced for the better, particularly by social relationships with people who strongly value egalitarian ideals.”</p>
<p>This would support my thesis that five year olds should be PLAYING with children of other races and not be preached to about racism at such a young age.</p>
<p>Northstarmom/Stanford Research: “Even people who consciously disavow prejudice can fall into racist traps.”</p>
<p>Again – of course. This is true for all of us, no matter what our race.</p>
<p>Northstarmom/Stanford Research: “In one study, for example, Lowery demonstrated how racial stereotypes subtly operate in the penal system. Los Angeles police and probation officers were asked to make judgments about a hypothetical adolescent (whose race was not identified) who had allegedly either shoplifted or assaulted a peer. Certain officers were first subliminally exposed to words commonly associated with African Americans (such as ghetto, homeboy, dreadlocks, etc.) on a rapidly flashing computer screen so that they took in the information subconsciously. In contrast to subjects who did not receive this "priming," officers with the subconscious messaging attributed more negative traits and greater culpability to the hypothetical offenders, and they endorsed harsher punishment—all typical responses to black as opposed to white offenders….In other words, by simply unconsciously thinking about black people, officers suddenly began seeing a neutral situation in racially stereotypical terms—without even knowing it...." </p>
<p>This also supports my thesis about young children and miseducating them about race. Exposing children to negative stereotypes and horrible words, even with the best of intentions, can put things in their heads that weren’t there before (like the subliminal messages on the screen). </p>
<p>Northstarmom/From a conference at University of Michigan's Law School:
" This impressive body of research has confirmed that much of society’s racism is not a series of unconnected, intentional acts, but is a collective, historically-influenced, institutionalized and often subconscious process. According to these studies, all of us have cognitive biases that influence how we perceive and make decisions about other people.[5] In other words, the behavior of human beings is often guided by racial and other stereotypes of which we are completely unaware. [6] “</p>
<p>Again – I think all of this is common sense. But it does not prove any more about the Cabot residents than it does about their accusers. That is why the only solution in such a situation is discussion and sensitivity (and listening and open-mindedness – on both sides). It is the only way things can get better in a nation where so much of what needs to improve is very nebulous.</p>
<p>Northstarmom:“You don't need to have ever seen a black person in real life to have been influenced by how blacks have been viewed by U.S. society. Television, newspaper articles, magazines, children's books, art, popular music all include depictions of black people, many of which are stereotypical.”</p>
<p>All ethnic groups, races, and religions are subject to stereotypes. Today (versus historically – a completely different story) the only acceptable discrimination seems to be towards fat people. My children see African American leaders everywhere (in politics, Hollywood, sports, medicine, business, television, the arts, etc.). It is a whole new world.</p>
<p>Northstarmom: “People discuss in real life and on message boards things all of the time in which others can't give their opinion. This is not debate club in which there are rules about things like this. Meanwhile, should the Cabot House residents who called the police wish to comment here, no one is preventing their doing so.”</p>
<p>I see what you are saying, but I still always refer to the golden rule when discussing other people, particularly about something so scathing. We can’t know if Cabot residents are reading this, or if they would feel comfortable posting if they did. The thread is lopsided, and the topic concerns people’s reputations. </p>
<p>Laws may be changing about posting information on sites such as this. The discussions are ongoing, but requirements to use your own name when defaming another person (or giving enough information so that they could be identified) could be coming down the pike. I think the litmus test for libel is typically that the accusation must be provably true (i.e. the person who wrote the defamatory content has the burden of proving it as true). This type of case could be very difficult (at the very least, expensive). Hotpiece wrote early on in this thread about “internet courage” – I guess it works all ways. In any case, laws may be changing which could affect how much anonymity we can have when posting information about other people. </p>
<p>If lawmakers are discussing the issue, it isn't so ridiculous after all to question the appropriateness of a thread like this. My point has nothing to do with free speech, by the way, It has to do with posting defamatory information about specific people (or institutions) from an anonymous position. The ability to do that could change. I am not sure that would be such a bad thing. You can disagree, but you can't say that it is a non-issue.</p>
<p>POETSHEART: “Thank you for posting that the links to this research, Northstarmom. They confirm something I think I've known for a very long time: That the heavy weight of three CENTURIES of national history, continual re-enforcement of negative racial stereotypes, and the natural tendency of humankind to favor cognitive shortcuts and categorizations when confronting life's myriad scenarios (especially social ones), make racism the most plausible explanation for the Harvard students' reaction to the group on the lawn. In this case I believe it was most likely subconscious racism. I would bet that most of them never see themselves as capable of racism, would say that's not how they were raised.”… ”But the simple fact is that they, like all of us, are products of our histories (both individual and collective)”</p>
<p>Poetsheart, the very same reasons could be a plausible explanation for why the Cabot students were accused of racism as well. It works both ways, as your quote suggests.</p>
<p>2incollege: “Does the person who called know for sure what was underlying his/her need to make the call?” </p>
<p>I don’t know the answer to this. I do know that YOU do not know better than that person why they made the call. If you think it is OK to question whether or not the Cabot residents know their own true intentions, why can you not see the absurdity in your failure to admit that your own assessment of their intentions could also be flawed?</p>
<p>2incollege:”Where do you live that it's such a bubble that kids aren't able to pick up differing societal expectations? In NYC, for instance, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist of a child to note that nannies seem to be mostly of color and the moms who hire them are white. It's not hard for them to see that the "elite" private schools are full of white kids and the public schools with kids of color. They don't see too many white supers for buildings or groundskeepers.”</p>
<p>While your quote does not accurately reflect my perception of where I live, I will tell you that it is a wonderful place. I do know the whole world is not like my little slice of it. However, in the circles in which I travel, people of all races are very well educated and successful. That does not mean that I have a blind spot to the rest of the world. I see what you are saying about NYC. Where I live is nothing like that. I just know, from my own personal experience, that some of the generalizations on this thread are not true everywhere, all the time, with all people.</p>
<p>"The Harvard incident obviously DID have racial implications, though i highly doubt they were conscious. White people as a whole generally dont see african americans as fitting their stereotype of the Harvard students. Because of all of the subconscious stereotypes they have, its not surprising that they called the police on the black students.</p>
<p>It's sad that it still happens but that's a prime example of the impact that subtle racism has today.</p>
<p>It's also a shame that some people, such as spideygirl, refuse to acknowledge this the racial undertones of the situation. The kids weren't necessarily "wrong" for calling the police to investigate, they didn't have the cops called on them because they were black. BUT because they were black, the students were a lot less willing to overlook the situation and give them the benefit of the doubt than if they WERE white.</p>
<p>It's just like a study i once read, if i find it i'll post it, that white high school deans often punish white students less harshly then minority students because the white students subconsciously remind them of their sons/daughters.</p>
<p>This could happen to white students at a predominately black school, but the almost all of the time it is white people in the positions of power and in the majority. So black people face almost all of the racism.</p>
<p>The bottom line is in todays world, black people can't expect to get off easy as white people can. It's more of an example of white privilege than racism."</p>
<p>-repost</p>
<p>
Wow, then you must live in some kind of Utopian bubble. I've grown up in a very liberal place my entire life, yet racism still exists. My 6 year old sister was told by members of her predominantly white girl scout troop that she had to be a witch in their upcoming performance of Wizard of Oz because she was black and witches are black. Now, these are young kids who have not yet been taught about race in school, yet they somehow picked up the idea that being black was bad.</p>
<p>And as to your statement that you're going to raise your kids to be colorblind, that in itself has certain implications... This article pretty much sums up how I feel about people being "colorblind": <a href="http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2001/01/08/focus4.html?page=2%5B/url%5D">http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2001/01/08/focus4.html?page=2</a></p>
<p>NAJ7488: “Wow, then you must live in some kind of Utopian bubble. I've grown up in a very liberal place my entire life, yet racism still exists. My 6 year old sister was told by members of her predominantly white girl scout troop that she had to be a witch in their upcoming performance of Wizard of Oz because she was black and witches are black. Now, these are young kids who have not yet been taught about race in school, yet they somehow picked up the idea that being black was bad.”</p>
<p>If you read all of my posts, you will see that I don’t live in a Utopian bubble (unless, as usual on this thread, you pick and choose what you read and what you see, or if you do read it you twist my intentions to fit your preconceived and rigidly fixed view of this topic). </p>
<p>In the circles in which I travel, things work, for the most part, according to the best case scenario. I have never said that my slice of life holds true everywhere else, no have I ever once denied that stories like the one that happened to your sister occur. Your sister’s experience is awful. Some of the kids in her class could have experienced something similar. Less likely in that room, perhaps, being in the majority, but still possible. Look back at the racist comments directed toward “white people” on this thread. Or maybe you won’t see them even if they are right in front of your eyes because you don’t want to? </p>
<p>Winning against racism will never happen unless we all admit that we can have the very same subconscious tendencies described on this thread, and when we have as much contempt towards racism directed at other races as we do about racism directed towards our own. It is all the same evil – it doesn’t matter who it is directed towards.</p>
<p>NAJ7488: “And as to your statement that you're going to raise your kids to be colorblind, that in itself has certain implications... ": </p>
<p>Being colorblind does not mean being ignorant. It means not being racist. It means being sensitive to privilege and reality, yet truly connecting to the humanity in other people and not noticing their skin color (or jumping to conclusions because of it). Ignoring the privilege that a majority group might enjoy can certainly be problematic, but hyperfocusing on race is way worse.</p>
<p>NAJ7488/Quotes from linked article: “To be truly anti-racist -- to take seriously the moral imperative to confront white privilege -- means focusing not only on cultural differences but also on differences in power.”</p>
<p>I agree. Hyperfocusing, however, is a different matter all together. </p>
<p>NAJ7488/Quotes from linked article: “A first step is to be honest about how deeply woven into the material and ideological fabric of our society racism is. Just as important, I think, is challenging the pathological individualism of this culture so that we can see how our successes and our failures are always partly social, not strictly individual. That means letting go of the collective fantasy that the United States is a meritocracy with a level playing field.”</p>
<p>Celebrating the fact that this is the greatest country in the history of the world, with boundless opportunity, does not mean that one cannot also be aware of the advantages some have over others. It is very troubling that there seems to be a myopia in this journalist’s mind about progress in this country within the African American population. With laws and social norms only improving in MY generation, there has been precious little time since race relations in this country took a turn for the better. Early in my life time, African Americans were not even given a seat at the table. The amount of progress which has occurred is enormous in a short period of time. Most families who arrive here were victims of some sort of discrimination where they left (my Caucasian ancestors were called subhuman by another ethnic group which occupied their land, and while they were not slaves they were subject to hundreds of years of truly unspeakable suffering on their own soil). It took three generations for the American dream to be fully realized in our family. While the African American story on this soil is even more tragic, the corner turned very recently. There is much cause for celebration and optimism, particularly among the young in this country. That doesn’t mean I think we should be myopic. It means I think we should be optimistic.</p>
<p>NAJ7488/Quotes from linked article: “If anyone still clings to that mythology, I have two words in response: George W. Whatever one thinks of our new president, it is impossible not to see in his life how race, gender and class privilege work. A mediocre student with a string of failures in the oil business, Bush has traded all his life on privileges that come with being a white man with family connections. Agree or disagree with his politics, it is undeniable that George W. Bush did not rise to one of the most powerful positions in the world on merit. Can anyone imagine a black man with Bush's record making it to such a position? Or a woman of any color? Or a kid starting out in a poor family?” </p>
<p>“Can anyone imagine a black man with Bush's record making it to such a position?”
Colin Powell. (he wasn’t president, but he was pretty darn close)</p>
<p>“Or a woman of any color?”
Oprah Winfrey (she isn’t president – although she'd make a great one, but she probably has more power than the president. And she certainly has more money.)</p>
<p>Condi Rice (maybe she doesn’t fulfill the lackluster school performance part, but BTW, Bush was passed by liberal teachers and professors who would have loved to see him fail at Andover, Yale, and Harvard. Lets not exaggerate his lack of intellectual accomplishment).</p>
<p>“Or a kid starting out in a poor family”
There are a number of US presidents who started out in poor families.</p>
<p>NAJ7488/Quotes from linked article: “We white folks have to take seriously the task of understanding not only what it means for people of color to live in a racialized and racist world but also how the privileges that come with being white give us advantages, some subtle and some obvious, some overt and some covert, some material and some ideological. …It is time for white people to go beyond good intentions and begin to face, and to tell, the truth.”</p>
<p>I can’t imagine anyone not understanding that a majority group would have advantages. Why is this article so compelling to you? Who is this journalist, and why does he think that it is OK to generalize about the Caucasian race and in racist terms state that all of this race needs to “go on good intentions and begin to face, and to tell, the truth”? That is pretty frightening to me – to think that you can generalize about what the members of an entire race think and about their intentions. It is itself racist and disturbing. </p>
<p>His statements about their being a tendency towards unrecognized privilege for groups in the majority made sense (before he went too far). That seems common sense to me. But back to the topic. It still doesn’t mean that what happened at HARVARD was racism. </p>
<p>One shouldn’t generalize about entire races, and one shouldn’t take generalizations about races and apply them to specific people.</p>
<p>"I dont think it is good to generalize about how people of a particular race think. I am sure this incident says nothing about how the brains of all Caucasians work"</p>
<p>Actually, there is strong scientific evidence that people of one racial group have a very hard time distinguishing between features of a different racial group. I forget the name of the scientist who did studies on this, but what's pathetic is that this can't be used in court to discredit eyewitness IDs -- eyewitness IDs are often erroneous, and account for 75% of wrongful convictions, and over 85% in rape cases.</p>
<p>my point is, white people DO in general have a hard time distinguishing between black people. that in itself is not a conscious racist attitude, but it does have a significant effect.</p>
<p>Northstarmom will probably find the scientist and post the link.</p>
<p>I'll check it out, as I do everything people take the time to bring to the discussion (when I can).</p>
<p>Instinctively, my first response is that one study should not be given more weight than it deserves. Can we look at more of them? Contradicting ones? All studies on the same topic?</p>
<p>Lilybloom: "white people DO in general have a hard time distinguishing between black people"</p>
<p>This is ridiculous. Some Caucasians come from places where people have pretty similiar hair, skin, and eye color (medium to dark brown). Do they have a hard time recognizing each other??? Do they lose their own children in crowds?</p>
<p>Let's substitute one word to see if you get what I am trying to point out:</p>
<p>"[Black] people DO in general have a hard time..."</p>
<p>Would you be OK with a statement which began this way? I don't think so. If you would be, you shouldn't be.</p>
<p>I like being North African...half of us are white and half are black, and for the most people you just HAve to grow up in the midst of both races and you don't really deal with racism until you listen to rap and watch TV and learn US history....</p>