What racial group would they fit under?

Applying to College
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<p>SHEED30: "WOW, how about we reach a compromise? The Harvard incident may have had racist implications, however since most of us were not there and do not know exactly what happened and cannot look into the mind of the specific student who called the police, it is better that we just leave it in the hands of those who were part of the incident and stay from what doesn't entirely concern us."</p>

<p>Can I second, third, and fourth this post? (since I am the only one on here taking my position, I need to do all that myself).</p>

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<p>Northstarmom - I am working through the rest of your post...</p>

<p>Can we access the 60 Cabot student’s Emails? I just can’t imagine that Harvard kids of any race could look like anything other than who they really are – students at Harvard. I just can’t picture it, and I think there is a real possibility that with all those involved those who looked out the window, called, or Emailed could be different people. Also, it is hard for me to imagine that the enormous brains at Harvard could miss the fact that there are African American social organizations on campus, which from time to time have functions together. </p>

<p>Do we know that the person who called also read the Emails or perused the crowd? </p>

<p>Can we know if they said the celebrants were not affiliated with Harvard because they were ticked about the noise and wanted to get the source out of the quad (knowing that was the way to get the police to take action)? </p>

<p>Do we also know that there are NEVER times when the police are called on groups of predominantly Caucasian students?</p>

<p>“When you are an unfamiliar black man, you are by definition a threatening black man.”</p>

<p>Honestly, I can that to some extent I feel a slight bit threatened by any man of any skin color if he is unfamiliar and we are someplace alone. This is purely a gender thing, and while some males might take offense it is sort of a primitive instinct. I am female, have children, and I am not very strong. I live someplace where I am away from the road. Whenever people come to my door (solicitors), I am very, very wary. Sometimes even of women – who knows? An unfamiliar black man would be no more or less threatening to me than a man of any other race. I am quite confident that most people think like me. That has been my experience, anyway.</p>

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<p>


I don't understand what you are asking me. If you are asking where I read that the Cabot students were specifically told that black kids were Harvard students, hotpiece mentioned it, and it was also in the link provided by sybbie. And as to your other question, if the Cabot students continued to question the black kids' presence, even after knowing that they are Harvard students, then it is racism.</p>

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<p>naj7488: You are still not fitting answers to any of the other questions I proposed into your scenario. Scroll back and answer them if you really want to take this debate seriously. </p>

<p>You can't answer them, unless information exists which was not provided either on this thread or in The Crimson. In the absence of information which has not yet been provided to me, there is absolutely no way that anyone could say, beyond an even slightly reasonable doubt, that this is a racist incident. If we can't know for sure, and if there are other possible explanations, it simply is unethical to jump to serious conclusions about other people's intentions.</p>

<p>I really don't understand the intense desire by many posters on this thread to shove this incident into a category which may be unsuitable and unfair (based on the information provided) . There are certainly ample other crystal clear (or impossible to be hidden as anything else) instances of racism out there, and to focus on a situation which may be something else entirely seems counterproductive to me.</p>

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<p>The most glaring thing to me that makes this incident racist, is that the emailers knew that these kids went to Harvard and still called the police. And yet, you keep grazing over this fact. I don't care about the other questions you posed, because we may never know the answer. But it seems to me as if someone maliciously called the police even after they had been told that these were black Harvard kids. If you can somehow explain this glaring detail, because you have ignored it completely, thus far.</p>

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<p>Just as we should never stand down to racism, we should also never stand down to character assasination or defaming someone. There are real people behind this Harvard incident, and reputations are at stake. Every human being on this planet deserves a fair chance at justice, and if something isn't for sure you don't publish it (libel) and you don't say it (slander). This is where the golden rule comes in. If we treat others the way we would like to be treated, things usually turn out to OK. If there is a reasonable chance that there were other intentions involved, slamming someone with accusations of bigotry or racism is just plain wrong.</p>

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<p>naj7488 -
There is possible way that the police could have been called because a Cabot resident wanted the noise to stop? Are you a mind reader? Also, you have no idea who knew what about the crowd, and if whoever called saw Emails or the race of the celebration participants. </p>

<p>"I don't care about the other questions you posed"</p>

<p>Of course you don't, as that would force you to confront things which could change your mind about this situation (something you clearly do not wish to do). </p>

<p>At least you have graduated from pretending that you don't see things that I have written, to now overtly refusing to address them. That is progress.</p>

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<p>I am spending way too much time on this thread, and it is getting way beyond repetitive. I don't see that anything new is being offered in the way of information. Unless someone can provide additional information about the incident (maybe a link to the Emails of the 60 Cabot residents), I don't think there is anything else to say.</p>

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<p>


The chief of police (in the link sybbie provided) stated that the reason they were called was to investigate claims of trespassing. And, as to who knew what about the crowd, the emailers were told not once, nor twice, but at least three times that the black kids down in the yard went to Harvard. </p>

<p>


If you read my full sentence, I said I don't care about those things because I have no way of knowing about those things. We do however, have concrete evidence, that these kids were told about the identity of the ABHW/BMF members. And you are one to talk, you refuse to change your mind about the situation. So just because I don't agree with you, I'm the one with the problem?</p>

<p>


You're the only one refusing anything. You have yet to address what I, and numerous other posters, have brought up. You keep reiterating the same tired points and completely ignoring the most glaring fact. I have already said that I can't comment on your other points because I have no knowledge of them.</p>

<p>


As you said, if a person is becoming too emotionally involved or "stressed", then maybe it's time to stop posting...have fun "taking your ball and going home."</p>

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<p>It would be great if this thread could be removed. CC is viewed by people all around the world who wish to learn about colleges in the US. I don't think that Harvard has been treated fairly on this thread from a PR standpoint.<<</p>

<p>Wow, you want to censor this story? It's that frightening?</p>

<p>The cat's out of the bag, though. I read about it on another college's website, as I'm sure many others did. In fact, I think it was in the New York Times.</p>

171

<p>I also don’t know what to say to the statement “why isn’t the testimony of an African-American student who was actually involved, on the ground level, good enough for you?” Can you not see how this sounds? What if the words “African-American” were removed and “Caucasian” were put in? This is just not a cool way to communicate, and IMHO the last way we can fight racism is by speaking in ways which honor it.<<</p>

<p>She identified herself as AA. Personally, I don't think there's any such thing as "colorblindness" when it comes to race; in fact, research has shown that children as young as 3 make the distinction (and there's that still-valid study of children choosing white dolls over black dolls, no matter their race). I have a biracial family, and we're proud of our combination; there's no need here to pretend it doesn't exist.</p>

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<p>You know, the bottom line here is that the Harvard situation could easily have been resolved quickly with some apologies and accepting of apologies. Whether or not hotpiece is correct in his assumptions about the intentions of certain Cabot residents, clearly his feelings<<</p>

<p>Clearly, you didn't pay attention to much that hotpiece had to say, since you think she is a he.</p>

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<p>NAJ7488: “The chief of police (in the link sybbie provided) stated that the reason they were called was to investigate claims of trespassing. And, as to who knew what about the crowd, the emailers were told not once, nor twice, but at least three times that the black kids down in the yard went to Harvard.”</p>

<p>But you still fail to answer the questions I asked: </p>

<p>Do you know for sure that the person who called the police did so with bigotry? The answer is no, you don’t. Because if they knew that the only way police will remove a noisy group is if they are trespassing, then an ornery student trying to cram amidst noise could certainly have made the unneighborly decision to say what is necessary to try to disperse the event.</p>

<p>Do you know that the person who called was also reading the Emails? Do you know if they are the same person? You don’t (if you do you have yet to provide this information). </p>

<p>Do you know that the person who called saw the group of students on the lawn and noted their race? You haven’t yet told me whether or not you know that the caller was also involved in the Emails. </p>

<p>Did the Emails even mention race (so that someone who was hearing noise, but not seeing people, yet did read Emails, could still made a complaint call with no racist intentions?).</p>

<p>I hope that when you take exams you answer at least some of the questions given to you.</p>

<p>NAJ7488 - When you come up with something new which merits a response, you'll get one. I don't ever take my ball and go home (and especially when I feel that I am winning). In this case, winning means championing the cause of fairness.</p>

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<p>2incollege: “Wow, you want to censor this story?”</p>

<p>That is truly ridiculous since I am posting on this more than anyone else (thereby contributing to a huge thread on CC with many views). </p>

<p>You missed my point, so I’ll repeat it: The thread isn’t fair to the story, because no one is posting who can defend the students who denied racist intentions. I can only keep pointing out that there are other scenarios which are plausible. One student who was there, Hotpiece, wrote about her perceptions of the situation. I have said that we can’t know what was in the minds of the Cabot residents based on the evidence provided here. </p>

<p>A fair representation would be if a Cabot resident involved from the other side were to join the discussion. Fair and balanced. Don’t you like “fair and balanced” news and discussions, 2incollege?</p>

175

<p>2incollege: “Personally, I don't think there's any such thing as "colorblindness" when it comes to race; in fact, research has shown that children as young as 3 make the distinction (and there's that still-valid study of children choosing white dolls over black dolls, no matter their race). I have a biracial family, and we're proud of our combination; there's no need here to pretend it doesn't exist.”</p>

<p>I agree, and I never said otherwise. I do object to ruining the pristine landscape of a five year old’s little heart. If a three year old makes a race distinction, it is environmentally taught. Choosing a doll which resembles you says nothing about how you feel about race relations! Children are very pure and may notice that people look different, but assign no political meanings to those differences. To them, skin shades have a meaning no greater than what you find in a box of crayons.</p>

<p>However, you already knew very well what I meant. </p>

<p>Five year olds should be learning about letters and numbers and making friends (taking turns and that sort of thing). They should not be learning about race relations. Let them have friends of different races and live that before they have any idea what the messed up adult world has on its mind about race. </p>

<p>There is a time and a place to learn about important things like race relations, but Kindergarten is neither the time nor the place.</p>

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<p>2incollege: </p>

<p>BTW, it was Embroglio who originally proposed that the thread be deleted by the moderator because the OP's question was answered and the discussion had deteriorated to bickering. I concurred, and contributed the reason that the thread was also not fair.</p>

<p>I would love for it to be deleted. It is repetitive and I don't wish to participate any longer. The only reason I continue is because I fail to resist responding to statements which are really off base. And there continue to be lots of them.</p>

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<p>"I do object to ruining the pristine landscape of a five year old’s little heart. If a three year old makes a race distinction, it is environmentally taught. Choosing a doll which resembles you says nothing about how you feel about race relations!"</p>

<p>You are right that it is through their environment that people learn to make racial distinctions and assumptions about people due to people's race.</p>

<p>Learning to do those things happens far younger than you are aware.</p>

<p>From an article about an award-winning documentary that a high school student did illustrating her research about </p>

<p>"Miss [Kiri] Davis, a senior at Urban Academy High School in New York City, also recreates psychologist Kenneth Clark's legendary 1940s "Doll Test" in the film and obtains similar results. Dr. Clark's research was used to challenge school segregation in the landmark U.S. Supreme Court case Brown vs. Board of Education.</p>

<p>In the documentary, Miss Davis gives black preschool children two dolls, identical except for their color. One is black, the other, white.</p>

<p>She asks a little girl to show her the nice doll. The little girl holds up the white doll.</p>

<p>"Can you show me the doll that looks bad?" </p>

<p>The little girl holds up the black doll.</p>

<p>"Why does that look bad?"</p>

<p>"Because it's black," the little girl says."</p>

<p>She asks why the little girl thinks the other doll is the nice doll.</p>

<p>"Because she's white," the child says.</p>

<p>"Can you give me the doll that looks like you?" </p>

<p>The little girl hesitates -- looking back and forth at both dolls, first grabbing the white doll -- then, looking a bit sad, she reluctantly pushes forward the black doll.</p>

<p>Fifteen of the 21 children interviewed said they preferred the white doll.""
<a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06360/748295-51.stm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06360/748295-51.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>O SNAP , It WAS JUST A MISJUDGMENT!</p>

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<p>"The thread isn’t fair to the story, because no one is posting who can defend the students who denied racist intentions. "</p>

<p>News flash: Most things that are discussed on CC don't have witnesses from all sides posting. CC has message boards. It's not CNN or another news outlet that is obligated to have witnesses from all sides when airing a story.</p>

<p>Your suggestion that moderators should delete this thread because of unfairness to Harvard is ludicrous.</p>

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<p>Do you know for sure that the person who called the police did so with bigotry? The answer is no, you don’t. Because if they knew that the only way police will remove a noisy group is if they are trespassing, then an ornery student trying to cram amidst noise could certainly have made the unneighborly decision to say what is necessary to try to disperse the event.<<</p>

<p>Does the person who called know for sure what was underlying his/her need to make the call? Does everyone consciously know that they are more uncomfortable with one racial group than another? How many people stop to think, "Wow, last week I was a bit bothered by the noise of that white group of kids, but I notice that today I am livid about this black group making noise. I wonder why I am reacting differently?"</p>

<p>The truth is that very few people stop to consider their actions--they just act. If they did stop (which the outcry, I'm sure, made them do in retrospect), they would be upset by their own reactions. People don't always mean to act in a racist or discriminatory manner; they just DO, because that's what society has taught them to do.</p>