<p>I have been delighted that my kids have both take some courses just because they found them fascinating and continue to love learning, for its own sake. My D believes that her many different, eclectic courses have all enriched her life and will be useful in whatever she decides to do down the road. Her advisors have been bemused by the various areas she’s pursued but have never stopped her from taking what she fancies, as long as she feels she can handle the load. We encouraged S to take some courses in addition to the required EE curriculum & GEs and are glad he has. Fortunately for him, he is also a great independent learner, so he has always pursued whatever he finds of interest in and out of school.</p>
<p><<i assure=“” you=“” that=“” the=“” average=“” person=“” i=“” went=“” to=“” school=“” with=“” is=“” less=“” self-actualizing=“” and=“” open-minded=“” than=“” ivy=“” league=“” student.=“”>></i></p><i assure=“” you=“” that=“” the=“” average=“” person=“” i=“” went=“” to=“” school=“” with=“” is=“” less=“” self-actualizing=“” and=“” open-minded=“” than=“” ivy=“” league=“” student.=“”>
<p>I appreciate what you’re trying to say - but I have to say that I have had some opposite experiences. </p>
<p>I went to middle/high school/hung out with the upper crust of New Orleans. Some of those kids went to the ivies (or pseudo-ivies). Others could have but didn’t -going instead for their parents’ alma mater (family traditions are big in the south!). And to be honest - some (altho by no means all) of these folks were the most narrow-minded, bigoted, self-absorbed people I have ever known. </p>
<p>My DH is a first generation college student from a small town in western PA, with a public HS that had less than 25% of their graduates go to college. He went to George Washington undergrad and Duke for grad school. I was a 3rd generation college student (my father had a PhD and my mother all but her dissertation toward a PhD) from a private K-12 school that sent ALL it’s graduates to colleges - and I went to a local, commuter-type university (which happened to have an outstanding geology program). </p>
<p>I think the main point is that you just can’t make broad generalizations.</p>
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<p>I think the idea is to educate the whole person. We have learned over the years that mental health is often tied to physical health. I have no problem with students being required to take PE–I think it would be great if they had to take it every semester! I am sure there are numerous studies that link physical health to productivity. </p>
<p>I just wish my job required me (and my coworkers) to participate in PE–I am sure they could save a bundle on insurance premiums and my jeans would fit a lot better!</p>
<p>I think the idea is to have freedom, including freedom of taking wahtever classes, freedom of paying for them and getting credit for your work, if you choose to do so. If you decided on knitting club w/o credit, so be it also. If you decided to pursue all kind af stuff, it is fine, as well as if you decided to be focused, stay in very narrow area of knowledge and dig in as deep as possible, be it. Everybody should be abel to decide for themselves, we do not need to put labels on any school or any subject.</p>
<p>^^^^Students can decide for themselves what to study to a great extent. However, grad and professional school adcoms and employers can decide if that person’s record represents the type of person they want to admit or hire.</p>
<p>tomofboston,
You nail it! Yes, exactly correct. So, nothing to worry about, it will get sorted out at the end, hard working people will get due credit for their sweat.</p>
<p><<however, grad=“” and=“” professional=“” school=“” adcoms=“” employers=“” can=“” decide=“” if=“” that=“” person’s=“” record=“” represents=“” the=“” type=“” of=“” person=“” they=“” want=“” to=“” admit=“” or=“” hire.=“”>></however,></p>
<p>When I was in my final semester of undergrad school and interviewing for jobs - I thought I had it nailed. I had taken all the hardest courses (except for that Tap Dance class!). I was top of my class and had a strong resume with solid, industry-related work experience. But my resume also included my EC stuff, which was all theater related.</p>
<p>So - what were the most common questions asked in interviews by the top management guys (not peer-level interviewers) - So, tell me about your theater experience. Have you had lots of lead roles? Have you performed in front of large audiences? Are you comfortable talking to people you have never met? There was one intense interview (over lunch at a wonderful New Orleans restaurant) that became legend within the company!!! (I won!)</p>
<p>And WHY did they ask me these things? The managers realized that presentation skills were critical for success and they were curious as to how my theatrical background would help me. In the end, my performance in the board room was good enough to have me be appointed “unofficial” coach to all the young geo-scientists. </p>
<p>So - you just never know when those “extras” will come in handy!</p>
<p>Grcxx3,
Interviewers are asked these type of questions, because interview process is extremely boring for them, they have so many applicants, and if they see that they could have a little break, they are happy to have this chance and enjoy for a change. If you do not qualify you will not get hired. If they see that you do not have interpersonal/communication skills and do not appear to be a team player or your personality does not match to dynamics of specific group, you will not get hired either. I have had sooo many interviews in my life, I was unemployed 9 times. Your degree, your GPA, set of skills and your behavior during interview are the only things that count, the other stuff will not set you apart, but it can make interview more sociable. That other stuff will not affect outcome.
You know what is the most common conversation during interviews to Med. Schools (D. went to several just recently). It is NOT research or other medically related EC’s that all pre-meds have. It is either your minor (if it is completely unrelated to medicine, like Music) or trips abroad and other “fun” staff. Interviewers are human beings, they feel they deserve some breaks and have a little fun. The minors and trips abroad have absolutely NO affect on Med. Schools acceptances, every applicant is aware of it, people having them to satisfy personal interests, have relaxing experiences, re-charge.</p>
<p>Sorry DAP- I can’t speak for med school interviews but in the corporate world, companies spend tens of millions of dollars training their interviewers on behavioral interview techniques. We do not ask about EC’s to entertain ourselves because interviewing is boring. We do not ask about random entries on your resume because we like to socialize. Other than the first 60 seconds of random chit-chat “did you hit traffic on your way in today?” or “can you believe how much snow we’ve had” which are designated “ice-breakers”, virtually all interview questions have a purpose.</p>
<p>And indeed, a person with stellar qualifications, GPA etc. can often “bomb” the parts of the interview they believe are purely for social purposes. They are not.</p>
<p>I don’t need to invest every year in outcome driven data about who we hire and how they are doing if the interviews are just a cocktail party. I do it because certain interview techniques yield better quality decisions than others- and we like to spend our interview dollars and time getting better decisions (i.e. hiring more good people and fewer marginal people).</p>
<p>I agree with blossom. Once past the initial “hi, how ya doing?” type questions - every question has a purpose, and the answers count.</p>
<p>Your degree, GPA, skill set, etc can get you in the door for an interview - but they don’t guarantee you’ll get the job.</p>
<p>
I totally disagree with this point of view. I took two phys ed courses as an undergrad because that was required. I took a third because I found it a really good way to relieve the stress of school, work, and family problems, and because I generally felt better after class. To suggest that this meant I was not academically serious is an insult, considering that I completed a BS in civil engineering summa cum laude (and not because of the 3 credits of PE either!). </p>
<p>If you’ve been on a college campus lately, you must realize that an unfortunately high percentage of the student body is now significantly overweight. If schools are not requiring PE courses to graduate, THEY SHOULD BE. </p>
<p>/rant</p>
<p>I also agree with blossom. It is actually quite pointless to waste interview time asking applicants about their academic credentials because those are usually well documented in the dossier. The purpose of the interview is to get to know the person behind the dossier. This is particularly important for medical school - there is a lot more to being a good and successful doctor than having good pre-med grades and MCAT scores. And the interview is where those intangibles are evaluated.</p>
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<p>Actually, it may be better if the quality of PE courses in K-12 were better. In many cases, it was just an opportunity for those who were stronger and better at a given sport or activity to beat everyone else at that sport. Including useful life skills like how to ride a bicycle safely on the street, general fitness concepts including dispelling some common myths like “spot reduction” and “fat burning zone”, nutrition, etc. as well as teaching the skills involved in various sports and activities so that the students can enjoy them would make those courses more useful.</p>
<p>I would hope interviewers are not bored, it seems awfully interesting to get to craft questions that enable you to figure out if they have the characteristics you are looking for, and then ask them of a variety of people.</p>
<p>I normally would not feel comfortable firing a bunch of questions at someone, but it is an interviewers job! ;)</p>
<p>I agree that asking about academics would be repetitious to their resume, but finding out * why* they took that trip & what they did there, could be very insightful.</p>
<p>I also think it is good to require PE, our bodies are not made to carry our heads around- rather it is the other way around.</p>
<p>I think every college should have a PE requirement. Case Western has one…no credit hours are given, but it is still a requirement. Swimming, yoga, rock climbing…S always said it was a great way to start the day, 3x or so a week.</p>
<p>Same S participated in various choral ensembles during his college career. One credit hour at a time, these were in addition to his challenging coursework in math & CS. Like they say, “All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.”</p>
<p>D was in a performing dance troupe in college. Not for credit, but because she wanted to. Another S was in an acappella group and a <em>cough</em> Laptop Ensemble (don’t ask…extremely modern “music.” 
</p>
<p>The difference in a club and a for-credit group is the requirements to show up, be prepared, and get a grade. And again, these arts classes are not INSTEAD of major/minor requirements, though they certainly contribute to a well-rounded student.</p>
<p>My son is taking a jewelry making class. I agree that often these classes are a great stress reliever. He’s taking it on top of the minimum load so I really don’t see a problem. Knowing him, I think it’s something he may well dabble in all his life.</p>
<p>While I was glad my college didn’t have a PE requirement, I think I would have better off if it had. I took a dance class one term and ice skating another, both non-credit, but most of the time it was easy to tell myself I didn’t have time for a PE class.</p>
<p>I can hardly imagine that anybody would care about my pottery hobby while hiring me for position that requires computer programming skills. Yes, fitting to team dynamics is important, that is why team members are usually given a chance to interview in addition to HR, director…etc. But taking fun classes will not help, sorry. The same goes for other fileds. </p>
<p>However, I am for these classes, because it is personal choice and evebody in this country is free to choose what they want paying for it and receiveing crdit or paying and not receiving credits or teaching it on voluntary basis or for pay. Who we are to say one way or another? It is individual choice and individual freedom and I hope it will stay this way.</p>
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<p>Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Groupon, …</p>
<p>Mantori, What do you mean?</p>
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</p>
<p>Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Groupon, …</p>
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</p>
<p>I am taking a guess, but the above companies- or any successful business, really, needs to be innovative & creative to stay on top of the marketplace.</p>
<p>Someone who starts out as a worker bee is great, but an employee who is able to contribute to the company by bringing new ideas including backgrounds in fields besides computer tech, is ultimately going to be more valuable than someone who aspires to corporate groupthink.</p>