What to do before an MBA

Graduate School Business School - MBA
1

<p>I've posted this elsewhere, but it's more fitting here...</p>

<p>Firstly let me tell you about myself, as is protocol here.</p>

<p>I'm a senior by credits, although I've just started my third year in school at a large state school. I will be graduating in spring 2009. My current GPA is a 3.97 and I haven't taken any of the major tests yet, mainly because I'm not 100% decided on my plan of action. I'm a decent test taker though. I studied abroad in France and got a diploma saying I was somewhere around Advanced-intermediate. Currently I am interning at the State Department, working with economic policy. I am a major in Economics, with minors in French and Global Studies. For ECs I also am a member of the Econ Club, I'll be starting a finance org when I return to school, working as a Resident Assistant, and running a half-marathon (FWIW). There are probably a few other things that I'm forgetting.</p>

<p>Basically, with spending almost half of my time in college away from college, and then graduating early, life post-bachelors has snuck up on me. So it has now dawned on me that after May, life will be changing again.</p>

<p>After much deliberation and thinking "What will get me the most money the fastest?" I have decided to get back to the basics of my desires.</p>

<p>Towards what have I always been naturally inclined?</p>

<p>Money.
From my earliest memories, I have found pleasure in earning money (who hasn't :P ) saving money, and managing money. And I'm pretty good at it. I've recently come to discover that I enjoy doing this for others. I want to take this to a much more advanced level.</p>

<p>Decision making.
There's something invigorating about being in group of people and voicing my opinion. Sitting around a table, churning through ideas, and developing plans from the brainstorming is so fascinating. I've always been good at having my ideas accepted in this situation, and I love seeing how this group dynamic can take my plans and cultivate them into something even better.</p>

<p>Exploring
I've spent most of my life not wanting to be where I am in the moment, always looking for the next place to go. When I start to settle in somewhere is when I really start to feel the itch to go out and explore something new. It's important for me to get out and stretch my legs once in a while.</p>

<p>So that really makes me feel like doing some international consulting work would be a good route to go. But I am sure there are other options out there that you guys could tell me about.</p>

<p>So right now, the plan is as follows:
-Quickly scrounge together some apps for the next fall
-Volunteer in Brazil Summer 09 (this is a must although length is variable)
-Return for school, which will likely be a MS in Finance or Economics (Tier 2)
-Graduate then work for a few years
-Return for a MBA (Hopefully Tier 1)</p>

<p>I want to use a Masters in Finance to open the door to better opportunities as well as grow my personal understanding of the field. Is this the right idea? I'm open to many suggestions, even going a PhD route then later an MBA, taking some time off for work (how do I get a decent job with a degree from a regional school?!?!), or heck joining the military. I feel that many things in life are enjoyable, and I wouldn't mind giving them a shot. But this is my inclination.</p>

<p>Also, where does my current internship fit into all of this? Does it look good or is it moot?</p>

2

<p>"What to do before an MBA?"</p>

<p>1) Graduate from an accredited college.
2) Work.</p>

3

<p>Wildflower gave you the most simple, yet credible, answer to your question.</p>

<p>You can also volunteer while you work. I am pursuing this avenue (volunteer on the weekends when I am not working). Get some decent volunteer experience (via your local United Way, museum or charitable nonprofit) for community service points. The more selective and socially-responsible business schools like to see this background in an applicant.</p>

4

<p>Maybe some of the others will know more about this, but my impression is that a Master's in Finance or Economics is kind of unnecessary. I think you would learn quite a bit more at one of the financial firms. I'm not sure what state college you go to, but depending which one it is you might have a good shot at being recruited given your incredibly high GPA.</p>

<p>If you can get a Master's degree in one year through something like a coterminal program, it might be helpful to you. But I still think it's less helpful than a job. That being said, next year's recruiting is already going and you don't seem eager to get in on the game. You might consider whether there is a 1 or 2 yr fellowship that you could do before working, and you possibly could even continue working at the state department of that is an option. I think you would learn quite a bit more about the real world and I think it will appear much stronger on your resume than would a Master's in something other than business (especially if it's not at a top school). </p>

<p>I definitely think a PhD is execessive as part of an MBA plan. There certainly are people with PhD's who apply, but these are mostly people who wanted to get out of what they were doing or wanted to take a more managerial approach to their endeavors.</p>

<p>I also somewhat disagree with tenisghs's volunteering advice. I think it absolutely ludicrous that a top MBA program would find any meaning from an applicant's volunteering at a local museum. Activities like that are seen as jokes even for incoming undergraduates. It sounds like you have some impressive public service credentials already (e.g. State Dept, Brazil volunteering), so I think at this point you are best off pursuing what you think is the best fit for your life right now. If you wanted to take a public service theme for your b-school application, you might actually fill somewhat of a niche role for the schools that you apply to.</p>

5

<p>@ stambliark41</p>

<p>My advice for the OP was regarding if he seeks a full-time job (fellowships are different and by all means pursue them if it's free money and prestigious). Some of us who are in the working world don't have the time or the means to travel to Brazil. If you can make a local impact in your community through volunteer service, the (socially-responsible) business schools would love to hear about it. I do agree that you should volunteer for something that interests you and/or is related to your career goals. Companies also want active employees with leadership potential and have created community outreach departments for this very reason.</p>

6

<p>Why get a Master's in Finance if you are only going to work for a few years before going back for your MBA. Seems like a waste to me. Go to Brasil. Play some foot volleyball, attend some football games, and hang out with hotties at the beach. Then, when you get done with your "volunteer work," work for 2 or 3 years, and then go to a top MBA program.</p>

<p>If you like money, you need to scrap military and PHD plans.</p>

7

<p>"If you like money, you need to scrap military and PHD plans."</p>

<p>In all fairness, if you get a PhD from an elite university (eg, Harvard, Princeton, Stanford) McKinsey, Bain and BCG will give you a decent shot. You come in as an associate. You also could make people call you Dr.--But that would likely become annoying too soon.</p>

8

<p>So the consensus is that an MBA further along would eliminate any benefit of an Masters in Econ or Finance? Is there basically no point in a specialization in either of these fields because they are so closely related to what I'd do in an MBA program? Truly the main reason I like this plan is because the school name on my degree precludes me from getting a decent job, which in turn will prevent me from getting into a really nice MBA program, and so on. I.e. I am scared that I won't get much mileage out of my degree.</p>

<p>I see it as climbing a ladder. My school is the bottom rung, and to get to the top rung of a top tier university, I must take the intermediate step of going to as good of a school as I can get in to (followed by a good job).</p>

<p>But if it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense. I could do my stint in Brazil, come back and take up an internship at a nice consulting firm (is that feasible with my stats?). And work from there...</p>

9

<p>@ CStogo:</p>

<p>No matter what, all MBA programs will require your undergraduate transcripts for admission. You could seek another Master's degree in Finance but it might be a waste of money and time if your ultimate goal is an MBA.</p>

10

<p>I understand what you're trying to do and it makes sense to me. If your current degree can't get you the job or grad school you aim for, a masters can be a good transition. But not one from a second tier school so that's where you lose me. You have excellent grades and hopefully good scores, so go after a top masters program.</p>

<p>The things you enjoy point to management consulting, deal making which we can just call banking, venture capital, development and the like. These jobs will be in short supply for a few years so getting a masters from a good program in something that will set you apart could be a good strategy.</p>

11

<p>Given your GPA, I find it hard to believe that you can't land a good job even from a mediocre school. It will probably just require that you do more legwork yourself to land the interviews.</p>

<p>However, if you don't feel that you can land a good job then a Masters in Finance is certainly an option, and could help you both with the MBA coursework and help you land more finance-intensive jobs. However, I still do not see that as the ideal route to take.</p>

12

<p>What I'm thinking is that I try and get a good job set up for when I return from Brazil in August (I'll have to kick it into gear now, I know). If it doesn't work out for whatever reason I can apply to some Masters programs next fall. Of course in the mean time I'd have to work somewhere, meaning I'll already have 1 year+ of work under my belt. I think I'll just take that as tentative and gauge it as I go along.</p>

<p>You guys have given me hope that it's actually possible to work with just a bachelors. Thanks for that. So should I give some of the big consulting firms a shot?</p>

13

<p>Why don't you apply to some masters programs to keep options open. This is going to be a tough year to get top business jobs. With Wall Street doing little hiring and an overall deep recession which is badly effecting consulting firms and other service organizations there will be far fewer jobs of the type would be top MBAs want for a couple of years. </p>

<p>Hopefully you have some good internships under your belt. If not, you may have to go that route first to get a consulting job.</p>

14

<p>Well the issue is that my only internship is the State Dept which is what I'm doing now. Before starting this job, I thought I really wanted to get into International Development. It took me only a few weeks to realize the government isn't the right path for me. Is it possible to do an internship after I graduate? </p>

<p>I could definitely pick some schools, there are several with deadlines in early spring, I think. I like the idea of keeping all options open. What are some finance programs that might accept a kid from a non-top ugrad program?</p>

15

<p>A 3.97 is impressive from just about anywhere. You should get lots of interviews. Are you the class val? Can you get some great prof recs? Do you have a minor or special interest/knowledge/language that might be of use in consulting? You need to find a way to stand out from the crowd.</p>

16

<p>Class val, I do not know. My school has about 23000 undergrad students, so I'm not sure how the university even breaks it down.</p>

<p>My minors are French and Global Studies, so I've always wanted to take the international angle. I studied abroad in France, but I wouldn't consider myself fluent. I'll be pondering a good angle that will likely stem from this.</p>

17

<p>It sounds like you have a basically solid plan. The only concern I have, reading this, is that you are underestimating yourself. When you go to a top school, people spend a lot of time telling you how great you are. Not so much at a T3 school, but it doesn't mean that it's not true.</p>

<p>With your GPA and resume, I think you should apply for the kind of jobs you want (top consulting, finance, etc.). Use Vault to find out what gets people into top MBA programs. At the same time, apply to fellowships and to Masters programs. In other words, apply to everything.</p>

<p>If you get the job, take that -- it will shorten the road a bit and cost less. If you get a good fellowship, take that. If not, do the Masters.</p>

<p>My .02.</p>

18

<p>Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've got starry eyes when it comes to some of these big consulting firms.</p>

<p>In terms of a grad school, I've been afraid that I don't have enough quantitative courses. By the time I graduate it will be... Applied Calculus I & II, Econometrics, Applied Statistics, Advanced Statistical Methods II. I'm not very interested in financial engineering, so that knocks quite a few programs off the list. What should be my aim for these. Is Princeton's M Fin. too high to shoot for, or would my application money be better spent buying myself a straight jacket? Is a program like Villanova too low? I'm focusing on this because if I do end up going this route it needs to be worth my while.</p>

<p>And not to distract, but what's a good jumping off point for fellowships? Aren't they generally limited to researchers?</p>

19

<p>CStogo,</p>

<p>The M-Fin and MBA are VERY different degrees. Essentially, with few exceptions, the MBA is for someone who wants to be a manager. It provides a preliminary qualification to lead a company, a division, or at least a department. Your coursework is heavy in team exercises and projects, and some of the core focuses on people skills (courses in negotiations, etc). You can major in finance, or corporate strategy, but at the end of the day you are an expert in neither - you're just a well-rounded businessman who has training in many areas and has been selected as a good candidate to be a future leader.</p>

<p>By comparison, a M-Fin is almost a technical certification. It'll teach you enough to be a well-paid monkey on wall street - a quant. The students who don't go to top programs probably end up in the Finance & Accounting departments at small-to-midsize companies. Only MFin or MFE (Fin Eng.) degrees from top schools are really going to get you respect from companies who know how to use your skills well. And from the sound of it, you're not by your nature a serious quant.</p>

<p>If you want an MBA, your initial plan needs some rework to be optimal. </p>

<p>(1) You're currently a top Econ student with an internship at the State department. Why not work there full-time after graduation, or get something with the world bank or IMF, or find a think tank that you can work for? Go apply to NERA Economic Consulting. There's a bunch of places you can find work that's meaningful and challenging immediately.</p>

<p>(2) You need to find success at whatever job you do take. Win allies, proactively make a difference at your firm, and get promoted. You need recommenders to describe you as someone who is driven to succeed.</p>

<p>(3) After 2-3 years, and hopefully at least one promotion, research MBA programs, visit a bunch of them, take the GMAT, and apply.</p>

20

<p>Denzera...as my son is going through a similar issue, only he graduated in May and is currently working at Morgan Stanley ~ wouldn't you think starting to study for the CFA Level I is a better step forward than just waiting or applying without experience to attend a top level MBA program?</p>