<p>Imagine if one school left the Ivy League to try to become more independent? For which schools could that be beneficial or detrimental? What school could replace it? What would the effect be if that school replaced it?</p>
<p>I think it could help Harvard, Princeton, or Yale. It would make them look more independent like Stanford. I think it would really hurt UPenn, because some people may think of it as a public school.</p>
<p>What are your thoughts?</p>
<p>No one who matters thinks that Penn is a public school. The people who think that – who cares what they think?</p>
<p>Anyway, these schools don’t “need help.” The world would still keep rotating on its axis if a school left the Ivy league (or another one joined). It wouldn’t matter all that much in real life.</p>
<p>At first thought, I thought MIT would join the Ivy league, but nah.
Umm. Well it’d have to have D1 athletics, be in the north-ish east, and be a private academic powerhouse. Georgetown is the only one that comes to mind. A little more south and you get Duke.
And I dont think that anyone would benefit from leaving the Ivy league.</p>
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<p>Independent in what sense? Stanford is a member of the 10-school Pacific-10 Conference, which is about to grow to 12 schools. HYP are members of an 8-school league, 7 of which have been one anothers’ peers since Colonial days. Harvard has the largest intercollegiate athletic program in the country - 42 different teams. Who would they compete against if they left the Ivy League? And are HYP really in any need of image change?</p>
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No. This is purely hypothetical, for fun.</p>
<p>/thread (Everybody happy?)</p>
<p>“I think it could help Harvard, Princeton, or Yale.”</p>
<p>What help could these schools possibly need? They are already the wealthiest, most popular, and most prestigious schools in the world.</p>
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<p>We should care what they think. After all, those people - whatever you may think of them - still have money. They still buy products and services. Hence, they will be affected by brands.</p>
<p>Consider this doctor who isn’t shy about advertising his Harvard MD. I suspect that if he had gone to Penn for med school, he wouldn’t be advertising that fact so readily. </p>
<p>[San</a> Francisco LASIK Surgery, San Jose LASIK Surgeon: Custom Wavefront](<a href=“http://www.scotthyver.com/]San”>http://www.scotthyver.com/)</p>
<p>Here’s a malpractice lawyer (read:ambulance chaser) who prominently advertises his status as a “Harvard trained attorney” who also apparently holds a medical degree. But his medical school alma mater is rather less prominently displayed.</p>
<p>“Your case will be reviewed by a Board Certified Surgeon who is also a Harvard trained attorney.” - Devesh Tiwary, MD, JD</p>
<p>…I graduated from Harvard Law School</p>
<p>[Dr</a>. Devesh Tiwary, MD, JD | Medical Malpractice Attorney Clearwater & St. Petersburg](<a href=“http://www.timedlaw.com/devesh-tiwary/]Dr”>http://www.timedlaw.com/devesh-tiwary/)</p>
<p>Now, granted, you might argue only stupid people would fall for such advertising tactics. Sure, but the world is full of stupid people. And their money is just as green as anybody else’s. You can build a highly lucrative career catering to stupid people. As Mencken once said: “Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”</p>
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<p>No, honey. We don’t just care what people think because they may or may not have money. </p>
<p>Anyway, if you want to go what the masses think, “they” also think that Ohio State - a school that they’ve heard of because of football - must be far superior to, say, Swarthmore, which is unknown to most average Joes outside the Philadelphia area. The masses are also impressed with Sarah Palin, and part of that is precisely because she <em>doesn’t</em> have one of them fancy-schmancy uppity Harvard degrees. So I’d be a bit careful in suggesting that “everyone” bows down to a fancy-schmancy degree the way you think.</p>
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<p>I’ve known several people who assumed that Penn is public school. And why wouldn’t they? It’s a perfectly reasonable assumption given that in every other state where there is a “University of (state name),” it IS a state school. </p>
<p>Not everyone makes a comprehensive study of US colleges the way we commonly do here on CC. Whether these people “matter” or not is a question I’ll leave up to others to debate, but they seemed like fine people to me.</p>
<p>Cornell is the only Ivy school that has the slight (15%) chance of leaving the league thereby prompting the conference to expand its footprint nationwide to a dozen similar to the recent Big Ten & Pac 12 expansion.</p>
<p>With Cornell’s gone (7 left + 5 = 12), Ivy league should add 5 to get to a dozen!</p>
<ol>
<li>MIT (top-notch school, next door to Harvard)</li>
<li>Stanford (Harvard of the west, Director’s Cup Champ)</li>
<li>Duke (atlantic coast market)</li>
<li>Vanderbilt (south, decent sports teams)</li>
<li>Emory (south, decent sports teams)</li>
</ol>
<p>Now, if Big Ten, Pac 12, ACC and SEC goes to 16, then Midwest region & D.C. corridor will be the next step of Ivy expansion.</p>
<ol>
<li>Chicago (you get Chicago market along with NU)</li>
<li>Northwestern (Big Ten spot replaced with Cornell’s entry)</li>
<li>JHU (you get baltimore/maryland, D.C. markets)</li>
<li>Georgetown (same as above)</li>
</ol>
<p>Alternatives Candidates: WUSTL (Missouri/Iowa markets), Rice (you get Texas market), Cal Tech (rivalry with Stanford & MIT, California market)</p>
<p>There is no realistic reason why ANY of the eight current members of the Ivy League would ever leave. Why would one of them even think such a thing? To chase football dollars? I don’t think any of them would dream of abandoning the name recogntion and prestige of being an Ivy in order to play football in the Aunt Jemima Pancake Bowl or whatever else is in the offing.</p>
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<p>Fair point. Let me rephrase. They may indeed be fine people. Plenty of fine people don’t know the differences, or don’t know what’s “good” or bad, except insofar as they are basing impressions off familiarity, football programs and the like. Therefore, what the average person thinks about a given college, or how said person reacts to the name (whether it’s “huh?” or “gosh, you must be brilliant”!) is really irrelevant to whether it’s a) good in the absolute or b) a good choice for any given student. This is in contrast to the sakky school of thought, which is … why, if the average person thinks it’s great, that must be a reason to go there! </p>
<p>Personally, I care what <em>I</em> think, and I care what people who are knowledgeable in a given area think. Unlike sakky, I wouldn’t hesitate to send my kids to schools that would elicit “huhs?” from some people. In fact, D’s future school elicits a vague “I’ve heard of that somewhere” from most people around here, due, most likely, to its association with a particular female prominent alum. Oh well! C’est la vie!</p>
<p>Sparkeye, that’s certainly ambitious. But that league would be a Joke. It would be Duke (bball)+Georgetown (bball)+Stanford (everything). That’s it, pretty much.
And the travel costs would be enormous, to have to fly all over the nation.
I think more realistic would be this:
Ivy League West
WUSTL UChicago Northwestern Rice Vanderbilt Notre Dame CMU and like idk Case Western
Ivy League East
Harvard Yale Princeton Dartmouth Penn Cornell Brown Columbia</p>
<p>Of course, this ignores the fact that some of the schools are D2/D3 and some are D1. But all are private and all offer fantastic educations (although the East is considerably higher ranked…)</p>
<p>I like the idea of Harvard quitting the Ivy League, it would almost completely debase the entire concept.</p>
<p>I don’t get the whole East/West thing, you’re basically trying to tote WUSTL Chicago and Northwestern as HYP, which doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>Im not necessarily trying to tote WUSTL, Chicago, and NU (along with Rice, Vandy, ND) to be like HYP. More like DPCBC. While I, personally, wold prefer Dartmouth or Brown to NU, WUSTL, and Rice, a completely reasonable person could choose WUSTL over Dartmouth, for example.</p>
<p>It is a fact that some people apply to schools based on prestige. I hear people all the time saying that they are applying to Cornell so they can get into at least one Ivy League. Imagine in ten years after Cornell leaves the Ivy League. Would people still be applying to Cornell for prestige?</p>
<p>That’s a very important point. Cornell, Dartmouth, Columbia, and Brown cannot afford to leave the Ivy League. Penn could because of Wharton, and HYP could because, you know, it’s freakin Harvard, Yale, and Princeton…</p>
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<p>Well, honey, you darn well should. At least, if you care about business, you should. Like I said, business is about making money. It doesn’t really matter whether we think the people paying you are stupid or not. What matters is that you are making money. </p>
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<p>It’s a matter of being realistic. Average people are not going away. We have to live with them and make business transactions with them whether we want to or not. </p>
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<p>Really? Seems like the masses voted for Barack Obama, who holds a Harvard degree. If Sarah Palin is nominated for the Republican candidacy in 2012, it seems likely that the masses will vote for Obama once again.</p>
<p>This is actually really simple. Lets do this the old traditional way.
The “highest” Ivy League is Harvard</p>
<p>The “lowest” is Cornell because of its high admit rate and its half public/half private status and for being the youngest Ivy and for having the lowest rank in USNWR.</p>
<p>The pecking order goes like this:
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Columbia
UPenn
Dartmouth
Brown
Cornell</p>
<p>Now we just need to simply find schools that are below Harvard’s rank and above Cornell’s rank in the pecking order. In order of prestige and rank, I’m listing the following:</p>
<p>Stanford - Perfect sports and reputation. But the location is way off.
MIT - Good location and perfect reputation, but doesn’t have the required sports. Also TOO close to another Ivy could arguably be a bad thing.
Duke - Perfect sports and reputation. Location is somewhat off, but its still east coast. For now, Duke is probably the most logical choice to be the next Ivy. However, its too new. Doesn’t have much history.
UChicago - Excellent academics. Lacks sports and location is way off.
Georgetown - Another close candidate to the Ivy League due to excellent academics and sports. However USNWR rankings is a bit off. Its reputation is great but could be stronger. Its Catholic affiliation seems a bit off of the Ivy League look…</p>
<p>Other schools like WUSTL, Emory, Vanderbilt, JHU don’t have the reputation, sports, or academics to compete. Cornell is “better” than these universities.</p>
<p>A few Cornell boosters have argued the Big Red should bolt from the Ivy League and join the Big Ten. They argue that given its size, research profile, and land grant/public service orientation, Cornell has more in common with the Big Ten schools than with the Ivies. Mainly, though, they’d like to get out of the Ivy League’s ban on athletic scholarships in the interest of elevating Cornell’s national athletic competitiveness. Cornell has done well in major sports like basketball and hockey even without athletic scholarships. It’s nowhere near Big Ten caliber in football, though. Nor has the Big Ten shown any interest in Cornell, which at this point would not deliver any major television markets. It’s extremely unlikely, but it does get discussed.</p>
<p>Here’s an example:</p>
<p>[The</a> Cornell Basketball Blog: Should Cornell Leave the Ivy League and Jump to the Big 10?](<a href=“http://cornellbasketball.blogspot.com/2009/03/should-cornell-leave-ivy-league-and.html]The”>http://cornellbasketball.blogspot.com/2009/03/should-cornell-leave-ivy-league-and.html)</p>