What would happen if a school left the Ivy League?

College Search & Selection
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<p>^^ @sentimentGX4,</p>

<p>You Win!!! I am very excited about the possibility that my alma mater would be adding a Proton Therapy Center. An excellent news for the central Ohioan if not the entire state of Ohio. So, I am going to be constructive tonight and agreed with Pizzagirl’s early statement that perhaps besides the top-10, all universities can be viewed as regional and are created equal in terms of academics. I am going to grab myself a beer and chill!!! All are welcome to join!!! Cheers!!! ^o^v</p>

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<p>Simple, then the ivy league would collapse because one school wouldn’t have a rival, so then another school would be kicked out which would then cause a slippery slope which culminates into the destruction of the ivy league. USNWR, CC, and its like.</p>

<p>(that was sarcasm if you didn’t know).</p>

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<p>@Pizzagirl</p>

<p>I totally agree with you. :)</p>

<p>@Wuchu</p>

<p>Just like you said though, even though they are less reputable to you doesn’t necessarily mean anything towards their academics. Similar to what I posted above, my Grandpa was the Dean of Veterinary Medicine at UC Davis for 29 years as well as working at other universities, and he told me that he personally wouldn’t recommend Berkeley over some other places because he didn’t like the way the university wasn’t as geared towards their undergrads as some other schools. He wasn’t saying it’s a terrible place or that people can’t succeed there, but it’s just one person’s opinion who might have a little bit of knowledge on the matter. Take it for what it’s worth. I just wanted to point it out to show that just because a large group of people perceive something, it doesn’t mean that it has to be true. I’m not trying to bash Berkeley or anything but it’s just something to think about.</p>

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<p>Alexandre said:

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<p>One way to test that theory is to track their Ngram fluctuations over time:
[Google</a> Ngram Viewer](<a href=“http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Harvard+University%2CYale+University%2CPrinceton+University%2CDartmouth+College%2CWesleyan+University%2CBrown+University&year_start=1701&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=3]Google”>http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Harvard+University%2CYale+University%2CPrinceton+University%2CDartmouth+College%2CWesleyan+University%2CBrown+University&year_start=1701&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=3)</p>

<p>And, judging from the results, it sure doesn’t appear that, outside of HYP, the Ivy League label provides much lift at all. The “chatter” produced by Dartmouth and Brown over the space of 300 years is barely distinguishable from Wesleyan.</p>

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<p>Is this a fantasy fiction writer’s workshop? You guys have amazing imaginations. A school leaving the Ivy League is about as likely as Maui leaving the Hawaiian Islands.</p>

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<p>Or a State leaving the US for some strange reason.
This is a fun thread to read though :)</p>

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<p>This is my humble (very) projection on what would happen if each school left the Ivy League:</p>

<p>Harvard-The Ivy League would collapse. Harvard has become, in the public’s view, the best and most prestigious university in the world. They are literally the bread basket of the Ivies.</p>

<p>Yale-The other Ivies would lose some reputation (except for Harvard, Princeton, and Columbia) because Yale is one of the three most prominent forces in the League.</p>

<p>Princeton-Same situation as Yale, but not as deep because there would still be the Harvard/Yale rivalry.</p>

<p>Columbia-They are in the middle of the Ivy League prestige, but on the higher end (right after HYP and before the rest), so it would be a comparatively minor blow, but it would slightly affect the gap between HYP and the rest.</p>

<p>Dartmouth-If Dartmouth left they probably could be an 8th member of the Patriot League (if they kick out American University for a swap, which would probably join the ACC or Big East)</p>

<p>Penn-They are good enough athletically in basketball and lacrosse that they might find a mid-major athletic conference to compete in, and they would still retain the “Ivy” prestige.</p>

<p>Cornell-They might downgrade to D2, or they will find a home in the Patriot League or some sort (Colgate vs. Cornell, new rivalry, hm?)</p>

<p>Brown-Brown probably would never like to drop from the Ivy League. But if it does, it will still be a very good, slightly lesser known college that will become a “safety” than a “reach” because of a lost Ivy label.</p>

<p>Very humble opinions, so don’t slam on me.</p>

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<p>Yeah, don’t get me wrong. These are obviously still very good schools. There are smart people at my school that wouldn’t mind at all going to say UC Santa Barbara or Davis. (although no one i know wants to get guaranteed to irvine because it’s only about 50% asian) Are you trying to say mid-tier UCs like Davis are more geared towards their undergrads than berkeley? i suppose there are probably less ppl doing grad work at davis than berkeley, so i could believe that. also, if you read my original post carefully, you would’ve seen that i only said the caliber of students that apply and go to berkeley/la is higher than that of those who apply to davis. =) i never said that the teaching there would be better. i’m well aware that berkeley has a lot of students, where you might not be able to attend a class because there’s not enough space and you can’t graduate in 4 years</p>

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<p>Outside of the Ivy League, I think that most schools receive their academic attention from major athletic conferences. For example, Duke (ACC), Georgetown (Big East), Georgia Tech (Big East), UVA (ACC), Stanford (Pac-10), USC (Pac-10), UCLA (Pac-10). Sure, all of them would still be great schools, but national television has promoted these schools.</p>

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<p>That’s not academic attention, though. That’s familiarity among the general public, who assumes that schools that they have heard of through sports are by definition “good” schools. That is an entirely separate matter altogether. Georgetown and Duke don’t become better schools by having known b-ball programs, and conversely schools that don’t have sports programs aren’t worse schools because of that.</p>

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<p>

We’re talking about perception here and there’s no question that basketball has elevated the profile of Duke and to a lesser extent Georgetown in the eyes of Americans nationwide. ESPN commentators frequently talk about how elite of a school Duke is academically and how smart its students are during nationally televised games.</p>

<p>I remember a particular instance just about a year ago during an ACC matchup between Duke and Maryland I think when the atmosphere was especially raucous and one of the announcers pointed to the Duke fan section and commented, “Look at those fans cheering wildly, you’re looking at the future bankers, lawyers and doctors of this country folks!”</p>

<p>Anyone who watches spots knows that Notre Dame isn’t “just another” football team and that Duke isn’t “just another” basketball team. There’s a palpable amount of mystique that surrounds both these storied programs that relates directly with their elite academic stature and high-profile alumni base.</p>

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<p>If any drops out MIT replaces lol</p>

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<p>Sorry, MIT has a state in its name. Can’t have that.</p>

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<p>quaker was that a joke? uPenn is part of the ivy league you know</p>

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<p>I think he’s joking…right?</p>

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<p>Obviously joking. A belated response to commenters about Penn’s name.</p>

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<p>lol okay, that’s what i thought =]
the fact that you have quaker in your name made me subconsciously think so. pennsylvania was where the quakers went right? i’m forgetting my history</p>

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<p>I personally didn’t say that, but it’s what my grandpa told me. I guess it was more a response to you saying you find the universities less reputable that guaranteed your acceptance, but I see that we’re agreeing.</p>

<p>Anyway. Seriously now, If any school left the Ivy League I doubt their popularity would fall off the face of the Earth. It’s not like the university is going to be sitting there saying “Ok, now that we’re out of the Ivy League, what should we do first? I know! Let’s tell the professors to stop teaching at a high level and cut research opportunities left and right because this place now sucks!” It’s just a name in a sub-par sports conference. The schools might even get a little bit more notoriety if they were in a better conference. Either way though, it shouldn’t make too much of a difference. These universities are too well established to lose any credibility by dropping out of the league. If there are any people out there who thinking “I’m not going to apply to Cornell because they dropped the Ivy tag so my degree would be worthless from there now”, then fantastic. An equally as qualified person will take your spot and do great things in your place and the Earth will continue to revolve around the Sun and everything will be right in the world.</p>

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<p>“We’re talking about perception here and there’s no question that basketball has elevated the profile of Duke and to a lesser extent Georgetown in the eyes of Americans nationwide. ESPN commentators frequently talk about how elite of a school Duke is academically and how smart its students are during nationally televised games.”</p>

<p>Right. But the ESPN commentators don’t actually know WHY Duke is so good. They couldn’t tell the rank or the selectivity or the average SAT scores or the number of Rhodes scholars or cite any specific programs or professors. They heard somewhere that Duke was for smart people, and they repeat it. The perception is based off “I heard it somewhere and I’ll just repeat it.” That’s the “prestige” you’re so desperate for.</p>

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<p>I think an equally interesting question would be, what would happen if an Ivy League school refused to participate in the US News rankings? Stanford expressed approval when Reed decided to stop returning US News’ surveys, so maybe another big name school feels the same way? I think if Harvard decided to withdraw from the rankings, that would change the whole college application process in the US.</p>

<p>Sorry for being off-topic, but the original question made me think about this.</p>