What would you change about visits or the process?

Applying to College
1

<p>This is inspired by the best/worst Admissions Team thread. I felt I was learning a lot reading through the posts as people would point out common errors and areas for improvement. So, if you've ever thought something like, "Why do I keep having to sit through this?" Now is a good time to share that feeling!</p>

<p>I feel like I'm playing with fire asking that, but your experiences are helpful and I trust you to remain positive. In an effort to keep this constructive, please don't bash specific schools here. I don't mean this as a referendum on any specific institution (including my own), so much as an opportunity to learn what frustrates the collective consciousness of CollegeConfidential. </p>

<p>And of course, if there's something you unexpectedly loved along the way, feel free to share it here as well!</p>

2

<p>The phrase, "We have the resources of a large university while maintaining the small size and feeling of a liberal arts campus!"</p>

<p>I heard that, I swear to god, at virtually every school I toured. Obviously, this is in part due to the fact that I didn't tour any big universities, but I find it hard to believe that every small liberal arts school can say that truthfully.</p>

<p>When you can blatantly tell that the admissions staff is lying to you. I can't remember any specific examples, but I definitely remember the feeling of being in an info session, listening to what is largely the same talk every time, and trying not to laugh at a couple of the more ridiculous comments. The same goes for the tour guide. My tour guide at Wesleyan was not nearly as trained as at, say, Columbia and NYU, which I also toured. My tour guides at those places were great, but you could tell that they were told exactly what to say and trained not to criticize the school. The guide at Wesleyan was more rambling and definitely let a few things slip out that he shouldn't have, but I felt like I had a much better impression of the real school after that. I applied and I really hope I get in there, because I really liked it, despite the couple of things he said implying that Wesleyan is not perfect, because no university is perfect. I think prosepective students prefer honesty.</p>

3

<p>I visited a good number of colleges when I was still visiting.</p>

<p>At my personal #1 university, the tour was dead honest. We had student tour guides who were honest, down-to-earth and when asked, were willing to say the truth. At other schools I visited, I felt like I could just hear a voice recording tour...instead of having a human being to be honest. I think, an honest student is the best tour guide for the simple reason that I really got to know everything about the school. When I feel like something is being held-back, it makes me question the school because they're not addressing why something is a certain way. It makes me wonder--what do they have to hide?</p>

<p>Just another thing, the visits. At the majority of the tours, they would take us into some UBER neat, perfect dorm room when in reality, I've heard that's the complete opposite. I think bringing students into REAL dorm rooms would definitely help students get a better perspective on the university rather than a perfect dorm room that doesn't leave students with the full picture of university life. In one place I toured, we visited the guide's room and ofcourse, it was huge. Then, someone on the tour noticed an open room and got in. It was the opposite of the guide's room. And there were bars on the windom--and every other window. Just make sure the room that is being shown is the university average--nothing neater..or bigger.</p>

<p>I have felt the "Why do I have to sit through this!?!?" feeling at one major public university. My parents and I were sitting there for over three hours as they put on video tape after video tape of testimonies. I think putting on the video tapes was a huge mistake because I could watch those anywhere. And the students they had were not willing to say more than their little quotes in the tapes. So, it made it a pointless visit. Live, REAL students is much better.</p>

<p>I agree with MLeigh for the most part and I feel like the whole admissions talk is a bit tiring. I mean, if I recorded every admissions person talking about their place, it might be "______ is a world-class university with internships." A fill in the blank. I think the most important part that gets underplayed is student life. Also, gearing away from admissions is probably best. When I was at an admissions event at a major university and they were talking about admissions, a girl raises her hand before saying, "I take a full IB schedule." And, then she got shot down. Just from my expeirence, individual circumstances brought up during the admissions part of college visits is just...BAD. People ask the most ridiculous, random questions. Possibly, just cut it out. It's torture hearing about every individual circumstance every person in the room has faced during HS with the inevitable "Will that affect my acceptance/enrollment in the class of 20__?" Honestly, I pity you guys for having to answer those questions..day in and day out.</p>

<p>I think the worst part of it was then, the papers and packets. For every place I applied, I think I probably have 1-4 versions/copies of the same thing. I'm not really an environmental advocate but it gets tiring when you're just told to read something that really doesn't give you that much insight--when you're right there...to hear more than just the packet. I think gearing away from PPTs/Videos/Read-alongs would be my #1 tip. Oh, and making taking the packets--optional.</p>

4

<p>MLeigh, I find it really amusing that you chose to share that with DanAdmiss, considering the whole "oh my God, it's having a unviersity/LAC identity crisis" is Tufts' big shtick.</p>

<p>But I agree on the honesty issue: I felt like I was everywhere being bombarded with the same song and dance. Besides obvious differentiations between schools (e.g. size, selectivity, etc.), I wasn't really getting clear images of schools in my mind. On top of that, if I had a previous assumption about the school (i.e. BC being really preppy), and the tour guide had never addressed it outright, the assumption about the school would have been allowed to grow in my head, and I would've thought less highly of the school. If you know your school has a reputation for something (like, DanAdmiss, "Tufts Syndrome") I think addressing it openly and honestly is the best way not to alienate potential students. If someone realizes the truth and decides not to apply, so be it: better that that student just not apply than apply and take the spot of someone who would've gone regardless of the reputation.</p>

<p>I also would appreciate more practical advice during college tours. Yes, the campus is pretty, ooh, look, a library, blah blah blah. My guide at Northeastern in particular was very vocal about which dorms were popular, which dorms were underrated, where you can get the best food, etc. Too often I feel that I'm being fed the same information that I had previously researched on the web site: student tour guides are not very effective if they are not offering their advice as current students of the university.</p>

5

<p>I wish there were separate info sessions and tours for parents and students.</p>

6

<p>Danadmiss@tufts:</p>

<p>Appreciate your question. I have visited too many colleges and universities and seen umteen catalogs.</p>

<p>I do not believe the pictures at all. The lawn class with sun shining and students gazing at the Prof. Really each catalog/brochure has the same setup, also the cheerful smiling faces of a diverse group who in real time would not be anywhere near each other except by accident.</p>

<p>The wordy brochures with testimonials from past and present students. What else is new.</p>

<p>The KISS Principle would do well in your business. Keep it Simple Stupid!</p>

<p>Some schools has letters from alumni sent to the prospective student. Does anyone read them? Why ever would a 17 year old care what a 40 year old has to say about anything!</p>

<p>Perhaps if it was written at the 17 - 19 year old interest level it might have more impact. Most, if not all, of these brochures are written by adults in their 30th/40ths to be read by parents. No 17-19 reads much if any of the brochures. They might be impressed by the first three or four brochures' pictures until they realize the genaric nature and after that - forget it.</p>

<p>Tours should be segregated, students only and parents only. If a parent objects - say too bad and lets them and their child take a hike.</p>

<p>As a parent, I have heard too many idiot questions from parents on information that is available in the materials sent out by the college or available in every guide book published. These questions are often asked on tour , but occur too frequently in general info sessions at the AD office.</p>

<p>If you must give an info session to a group, refuse all questions until after the presentation, then let people leave and let the questions occur after the official meeting is over.</p>

<p>Post a sign in the reception area stating parents not included in initial interview, will be invited in after the interview is over. That way, parents will not be left standing with their face on their shoes when you take their darling back alone and leave them stranded.</p>

<p>Parents are the closest item to useless on a college campus, even during the search process, you know it, most parents realize it sooner or later and a few (maybe more than a few have no clue and think they are important in this process). Your literature should emphasis the student's interests not the parents.</p>

<p>Frankly, I am addressing what you should do for the vast majority of parents entering the process for their first time. Parents who post on CC either know these facts already or are the 'few' who will never learn their real role and cannot be convinced otherwise regardless of your efforts.</p>

<p>Good Luck</p>

7

<p>We've appreciated clear information on the college website about:
when tours are available
how to reserve a spot (or if this isn't necessary)
where the tour starts
best place to park for the tour</p>

<p>At the admissions office, we've appreciated:
free bottled water/lemonade/cookies/popsicles/hot chocolate (different seasons)
handouts that are specific to certain majors or sports
clean bathrooms
chairs for everybody while waiting
friendly greeters</p>

<p>Once on the tour, we appreciate:
tour guides who were both enthusiastic and honest
clear campus maps for further exploration on our own
tour guide who stays for a few minutes at the end of the tour to give directions to specialized spots (pool, gym, bookstore, back to the freeway)
if a giant tour group will be split, we like to know the major of the tour guide and have a choice about which guide to follow</p>

<p>Overall, the best visits have been the ones where the school seemed interested in answering questions and seemed to care about the visitors.</p>

8

<p>I agree with many of the previous posters' suggestions.</p>

<p>-Tours done by guides in that major or similar field are very helpful (like nursing, engineering, etc).</p>

<p>-Refreshments are wonderful..Especially early-morning visits. My favorite had pastries and juices available!</p>

<p>-A view of a "real" dorm. St Anselm actually showed us a built up triple; something many schools just said "it happens" but we actually got to see the space issues, etc. Also other tours that just knock on a door and ask if the students can come in and take a look around. </p>

<p>-I whole-heartedly agree about the extremely annoying "what if i..." questions during admissions sessions or whatever. At one presentation, they left 10 minutes for questions. If you didn't want to hear them, you could leave. </p>

<p>-Ample seating is very much appreciated. </p>

<p>-Tour guides with lots of experience, especially in student activities. I don't want a guide that only goes to campus events once a month, I want the kid that's actively involved and can tell me lots about what goes on for fun!</p>

<p>-Seperate tours sound amazing. At one tour, I kept hearing the awfully annoying voice of one helicopter mom who felt the need to interject every .5 seconds. Sheesh I just want to see the school, not hear some stuffy mom's opinion about every aspect of it.</p>

9

<p>Usually at the information session, there is one perky student (or a few) coupled with an admissions officer. If they don't know the answer to a question, they should just admit it. At BC, we asked about opportunities for instrumental music, like orchestras, jazz band, etc. They had no clue and it showed. They kept on talking about vocal ensembles.</p>

10

<p>My son and I enjoyed all of our college visits. On the whole the schools we went to handled the process very well. On change I might suggest is not to spend a lot of time in the info sesssion talking about how great the study abroad programs are. This is one thing that I found very repetitive and not all that pertinant. If there is something very specific/unique to a school's study abroad opportunities, that might be worth pointing out, but it seemed like a lot of time was spent at all the info sessions talking about it -- and saying more or less the same exact thing.</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
Some schools has letters from alumni sent to the prospective student. Does anyone read them? Why ever would a 17 year old care what a 40 year old has to say about anything!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Some schools are more brazen. D received a Xmas card from a school alumni that she expressed no interest ever. Don't know why they even send a card. Waste of time/money.</p>

12

<p>At one info session I attended, the AD made a big joke about how there are other good schools, of course, but none as good as _______. It was stupid. What are we, six??</p>

<p>That said, I have a serious question: What is the point of the info session? I don't think I ever learned anything specific at those sessions. They're always presented by the AD or an assistant, so they are polished and professional, and just about everything i ever heard was already in the catalogue or on the web site. (I'm one of those people who always did her homework.) </p>

<p>On the other hand, the tours -- IMO -- are very revealing. Not only are you actually seeing the school itself, but you see other students while walking around. You get the flavor of the tour guide -- only one person, of course, but at least one person whom the school thinks is a good representation of them. </p>

<p>For me, seeing other kids around campus was the most interesting for me.</p>

<p>I think ever visitor should be encouraged to eat in the cafeteria/dining room, with a voucher, if possible. (Might get expensive, I realize.) That's where the visitors can be quiet and observe and listen to the current students. As a prospective student, I want to know if they talk about coursework during lunch, or the frat party that's coming up, or the sport they play -- and I also want to see if a lot of people eat alone.</p>

13

<p>My son quit looking at most brochures. He joked even the most ugly campus had designed a few "pretty places" just for the brochures. The best mailing we got was the one with letters from professors about what the school was like, and how it was teaching there. It gave my son the best sense of what it would be like to be a student there.</p>

<p>I agree it would be nice to see dorm rooms on tours. </p>

<p>I've noticed -- and appreciated -- the posts by certain schools' admissions officers here on CC. While those schools weren't the right fit for the first kid, it certainly has raised awareness of those schools and they may be the right fit for the next one.</p>

14

<p>I like the meal voucher idea, but I'd go one step further. Have a voucher that buys lunch for both the visitor AND a current student. In other words, the visiting kid goes to a cafeteria on campus and asks someone in line "do you mind if I buy you lunch and talk to you about the school?" I bet visiting kids would become very popular with current students! Meanwhile send the parents somewhere else so its just the visiting kid(s) and a few current students at the table.</p>

<p>Make it optional (eg. "Now the tour is over, we have a special offer for those of you that are interested") because some kids aren't ready/able to to approach strangers and do this. I think not only would it give kids a fresh perspective from randomly-drawn students, but it would create a bit of buzz about a school that did this because it would be so novel (unlike, as written above, the info sessions and brochures that become indistinguishable after a while).</p>

15

<p>Most amusing pattern we noticed on college tours last year:</p>

<p>The night before each visit, we'd read the Fiske guide for the "school of the day." Inevitably, the guide or info session presenter would directly or indirectly address Fiske criticisms about the school. Unasked, Dartmouth rep refuted drinking reputation, Berkeley rep stated the classes aren't all that huge (she met privately with a professor once....) etc. We got so we could predict what unsolicited defense would be presented. Tour guide, don't bother. Wait for the question, and then be honest.</p>

<p>Best reps cover info available in Fiske and viewbook very quickly, and move on to anecdotes about what made the college great for them. These stories should add insight about what life at the school is like: dorm life/town life, class size, relationship with profs, typical weekend, typical foreign study experience, etc. A month after the whirlwind visits, the presentations we remembered best had personal stories that stuck in our minds. Yale tour guide was exemplary.</p>

<p>Pet peeve: We had one shot in the spring to visit eastern schools. About 1/4 of them were "closed" due to spring break (including Tufts :() I know it's horribly inconvenient, but some kind of limited tour schedule during Spring Break would truly be appreciated by those of us who live far from New England.</p>

<p>I don't agree that parents shouldn't attend tour/info sessions. Two sets of ears were very useful for deconstructing each visit. Parents just have to learn to reserve judgement and let student lead the discussion.</p>

16

<p>I chose to apply to a few colleges and based on admittance decisions
I receive plan to visit the colleges and form a opinion. So no formal
campus visits (other than by Google Earth :D)</p>

<p>The information session I visited when the Caltech Regional officer showed up
was really nice. The officer talked about student life and had 3 alumni
(who were obviously not prepped a whole lot) talk about their experiences.</p>

<p>It seemed unscripted and genuine and I found myself relating to the
honesty of the folks presenting. Thats what I would want to see when
I visit any campus- honesty and not fluff.</p>

<p>:)</p>

17

<p>I could not agree more on the point of honesty, and it's especially true as it relates to the tour guides. By far, the guides who receive the most consistent praise, the highest praise, and seem to make the biggest difference as the ones who let down their metaphorical hair and open up about themselves and their experiences. Tour guiding, more than anything else, seems to benefit from information with a lack of packaging. The challenge we face, as admissions offices who understand that, is helping our guides find the right balance. Having them provide information that is relevant while giving them room to insert their unvarnished views and opinions.</p>

<p>As an admissions officer, I still struggle occasionally with that balance during my information sessions. Once you do a similar talk so many times, it becomes easy to fall into a routine with the important points. That routine can make it challenging to be authentic (not to seem authentic, but to actually BE authentic).</p>

18

<p>Honesty vs. 'spin.' For example, one college liked to tout its overseas program and mentioned that ~50% of students "go abroad," one of the highest percents of its competitors. When pressed, however, it soon became clear that those kids weren't in study-abroad programs, but, in fact, traveling on their own (or daddy's) money during the summer. When pressed further, the tour guide admitted, well, yes, only ~15% of students actually "study abroad" during the school year, but added: "but, with all of our resources, why would anyone ever want to leave?"</p>

19

<p>Info sessions suck. If I can talk 1-on-1 with somebody it is 1,000,000x as good. Obviously that is hard, but a huge difference. And not an admissions person, you try to hard to impress and it hurts things, someone in a group/field/etc. that you are interested in.</p>

<p>On handouts - have lots of them, and specific ones available. The more information I have, the better I will be able to recreate that feeling come decision time. Don't hand them all out(maybe a viewbook as a starter), but do make them available.</p>

<p>Make the campus map readily available at admissions(outside the door in a box, on a desk after you walk in, in the wall of pamphlets) and, if possible, in most buildings on campus. If I come by campus early/late/etc. finding a map is very important, and surprisingly difficult at some schools.</p>

<p>Have small tour groups. If I have an awesome tour guide, but I'm in a group of 20+, it is worthless. 10 or less people(not students, total) is ideal, but getting rid of parents would be good.</p>

20

<p>As far as the 'process' goes, something needs to be done about financial aid. It is just so frustrating and tedious.</p>