What would you do if your highschooler told you he thinks he has ADD

Parents Forum
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<p>There are a number of other LDs that mimic ADD/ADHD, one of them being Non Verbal Learning Disability or NVLD. It’s not in the DSM yet, and a lot of school districts won’t recognize it. The way that it’s diagnosed (in part) is when there is a split between their verbal and non verbal subscores on IQ testing (usually the WISC-IV.) And if your kid has always done well in school previously, then their gifted verbal ability has probably let them compensate until now. </p>

<p>If your child is saying that they are having problems, then they probably are struggling. What our psychologist/learning specialist told us after everything got figured out was “if you knew how hard she’d been working just to keep afloat this long, you’d want to cry.” </p>

<p>Make sure that your tester/psychologist is experienced with ADHD/ADD, NVLD & gifted kids. The second educational testing service we used had no idea what I was talking about when I was asking about some research that had been published 5 years ago regarding GT kids with LDs. And it was pretty basic & well known stuff. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Spectrum2: I think there is definitely a range and I think some of the qualifiers include how high their verbal ability is (to overcome the LD) and how old they are when they can’t hold it together anymore (the older they are, I think means they’ve been able to come up with self coping skills on their own for a while.)</p>

<p>There is a little boy on my block who has the worst case of ADHD-hyperactive I have ever seen. Speed talking since toddlerhood, zooming through the neighborhood, no attention span. So he’s on the extreme end of the bell curve (bless his heart.)</p>

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<p>RobD: Is there anything on the web you can point me to that talks about NVLD and gifted kids. Also so many have mentioned DSM which I have assumed is the standard setter for characteristics of the LD, but what is DSM?</p>

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<p>The DSM is the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual of Mental Disorders. The current version is the DSM-IV and was published in 1994 although a revision was published in 2000. The next version (DSM-V) is due out in 2013 and there is a lot of political posturing going on regarding what will be included and what will not due to changes in labeling of LD’s, the explosion of autism & other autism spectrum related disorders, etc. </p>

<p>A good site to start learning about NVLD is [Home[/url</a>] Also google the term “twice exceptional” which refers to people who are both gifted and have an LD. For example: [url=<a href=“http://www.uniquelygifted.org/]Uniquely”>http://www.uniquelygifted.org/]Uniquely</a> Gifted - Resources for Gifted/Special Needs Children](<a href=“Web Page Under Construction”>http://www.nldontheweb.org/) </p>

<p>Warning: much of the early research regarding NVLD was done with children of average to below average IQ and doesn’t apply to children with a higher than average verbal IQ.</p>

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<p>You can take part in the “posturing”</p>

<p>[Home</a> | APA DSM-5](<a href=“http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/Default.aspx]Home”>http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/Default.aspx)</p>

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<p>Oh dear me. No thank you. I had to step away from a few of the listservs that serve GT/LD populations due to the posturing about if X was on the Autism Spectrum, and if Y wasn’t just a really bad case of ADHD and pro meds vs. anti meds…the list goes on. </p>

<p>I am but a lowly parent with access to academic databases (which can be a dangerous thing :wink: I’ll leave the arguing to the professionals…</p>

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<p>I hear you, but it says…</p>

<p>“Your input, whether you are a clinician, a researcher, an administrator, or a person/family member affected by a mental disorder, is important to us. We thank you for taking part in this historic process and look forward to receiving your feedback.”</p>

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<p>Were you in the room? :)</p>

<p>Seriously - my daughter has APD issues, sensory issues, ADHD (looked very NVLD too). When she was diagnosed, they described how the lights and the ambient noise at school were probably torture for her, no wonder she was melting down trying to do homework at night. She was mostly very well behaved at school - we got the brunt of everything at the end of the day, so the school was of absolutely no help to us back then, until we came in with a 12 page report from private testing.</p>

<p>Plus, back then (almost 10 years ago), the teachers and the administration met our reference to “twice-exceptional” with blank stares. They seemed to only understand Gifted, or Special Ed, with no understanding of the over-lap. I second RobD’s reference to Uniquely Gifted, the woman that does that website and runs the GT/LD listserv at GT-World is available for advocacy and test consulting if needed.</p>

<p>sk8rmom - teachers and administrators often fail to follow through on accommodations and services for kids with 504s and IEPs, so it’s not at all surprising that they are blowing off your requests for help. They are strapped for time and money. My daughter has a 504 which allows her one extra day for any assignment - and I use it for her when appropriate.</p>

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<p>Oh, I forgot, for those of you in the contemplating process, I’d try to get the teacher questionnaires filled out right now as well, that will give you the summer to work on the testing so that you can have meetings right away in the fall with your results in hand.</p>

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<p>mnmom: I was in the room some of the time, but not in school :slight_smile: And since she is my quiet child with currents that run deep under the surface, I really didn’t understand what it was taking out of her. I knew SOMETHING was up (and actually had thought that way long before the poo hit the fan in middle school) but everyone around me told me it was just because she was “so smart.” How is your D doing now? I’ve heard the sensory issues can be very difficult because the stimuli are out of your control for the most part.</p>

<p>shrinkrap: luckily, D’s situation with NVLD stabilized during sophomore year & I slowly disengaged from a lot of the message boards/listservs that were GT/LD focused and hey, I replaced that with CC :slight_smile: I will take a look at the DSM conversation & add my 2 cents if appropriate. My 2 1/2 y.o. nephew is in the process of being evaluated for Aspergers and my SIL had never heard of it before so I find myself being pulled into that area again as I try to help her understand some of the stuff the ed consultants are telling her. Thanks for the link!</p>

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<p>FWIW, last I heard, “Asperger’s” is on the chopping block, to be replaced essentially with Autism “spectrum”.</p>

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<p>Which is essentially where it already is right now, they just aren’t going to use multiple different names for disorders that are all considered types of autism. It is causing quite the uproar in the DSM V discussions, with people feeling very strongly in both directions.</p>

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<p>I again want to thank all of you who have reached out with opinions and stories both on this forum and in PMs. I felt that your words were with me today and were empowering. </p>

<p>S’s got a sinus infection so I took him to see the PA, we have a full physical exam with the MD scheduled for the end of July but based the the tip of getting the ball rolling early in the summer I took this opportunity to discuss our concerns with the PA who incidentally has a younger child with ADHD. He seemed knowledgable about the condition but not so much about dx being made in older kids or about the combo of being both gifted and LD. </p>

<p>Son discussed his difficulty reading, and as some of you replied, he explained how this is perfectly normal. What I learned from communicating with you was that while he (and I) are mentioning this one thing it is like the tip of a wave, that’s what is visible but what isn’t visible are the hundreds of little other things beneath the wave that have brought us to even mention this. I don’t mean to be critical, the answer that this is normal is very reasonable, but since I heard it from some of you it helped me to think about why I was even pursuing this and so many more things came to mind.</p>

<p>PA mentioned how S was sitting quietly and taking in the conversation in a manner atypical of someone with ADD. First, he was sick and on decongestants so he was definitely less energetic than usual, but still in his normal state I don’t think he would appear that he wasn’t paying attention, as this is something very important to him and he has after all, he’s gotten though 10 grades of school with good grades. </p>

<p>What I knew from your communications was that even though he told me most kids are diagnosed when they are young and have poor grades in school, there are those that have compensated and don’t face real issues until they are older, particularly if they are gifted.</p>

<p>As PA was leading me down the road I had already been down when S was younger, I kept getting back to asking the queston, “what should we do if we want him to get tested?” In the process of all this PA did mention that S may be compensating. PA told us that we could be referred to a psychologist in the area and I told him that S and I would discuss it and get back to him if we wanted to go that route.</p>

<p>Following the visit I asked S what he thought. Let me emphasize that PA made a very strong case for normal difficulty. S said, “I think I am one of those who has been compensating.” I asked him if he thought any of his teachers would know him well enough to answer some questions about this and he mentioned 3 teachers. I asked if he wanted to do further evaluation and he said yes.</p>

<p>I am not here to tell you that S had ADD or another LD, I really don’t know. I do know that individual factors and S’s own concern give me reason to take this beyond a casual conversation. I want to share how easily a parent can be dissuaded from investigation based on a 5 minute encounter. PA didn’t ask a single other probing question, he just responded to the concern about reading and observed S’s behavior for a very short interval. It was so helpful to know that even if S doesn’t have a LD there are kids who are diagnosed in their teens and who have flown under the radar for years and have managed to do well in school. Without that knowledge I would feel foolish going any further with this.</p>

<p>I don’t think I would have had the presence to ask for more investigation had I not been communicating with all of you. So thank you and we’ll see.</p>

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<p>spectrum2:
I’m so glad you found helpful information and support here.
You are doing the right thing by pursuing this so that you can find some answers and make sure that your son has an opportunity to make the most of all his abilities.
Best of luck, and I hope you’ll keep us posted.</p>

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<p>My thanks as well…much to read/think about but I did get the assessment forms from the ped’s office yesterday and spoke with the VP at the high school. She know my S very well (and lets him off easy way too much, although they’re usually minor offenses) and said she’ll take care of getting the teacher assessment done. She asked me who I want to do it and the problem is the we’re block scheduled so this semester he’s only taking history (big personality clash with teacher, who I’ve known for years and agree is a bit of an idiot) and english (he’s always been a fairly good writer though he won’t proofread and “fakes” that he’s read the material by listening to the other kids talk about/describe it). Can these forms be filled out by former teachers? He’s had a dozen or so teachers over the past five years who have commented on the obvious mismatch between his ability and performance and would call or seek me out at games to ask if he was having personal problems or offer to work with him after school.</p>

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<p>My son just started meeting with a psychologist because I thought – and he agreed – that he needed to be evaluated for ADD. He just finished his freshman year of college. I attended the first meeting with the therapist. It was very informative. The therapist works at a center that specializes in treating ADD.</p>

<p>Based on the first meeting, the therapist is fairly sure he has ADD. The therapist mentioned the same point that another poster made earlier – kids who don’t have the hyperactive part of the condition are less apt to be diagnosed early because that are not disruptive in the classroom like hyperactive kids. (As an aside, it turns out that hyperactive kids are frequently the subject of bullying in school.)</p>

<p>This therapist takes a three-pronged approach: several therapy sessions, a referral to a psychiatrist for medication, and use of a coach to help develop organizational and related skills. Apparently the meds can be extremely helpful, but they are not a “cure all” – they can help you focus during a reading assignment, but they won’t make you do the reading. Also they stay in the body for a very short time, and can be used as needed. (Which I guess is why they are so popular with non-ADD kids at exam time.) </p>

<p>I have a friend who is a psychiatrist who treats adults with ADD. He says that the meds clearly help people who have the chemical imbalance that leads to ADD, but if you don’t have ADD then you will not find it helps with the problem that you have. That is, if you have another condition, you will not see an improvement in that condition using ADD meds. So the effectiveness of the meds is an indicator for ADD.</p>

<p>The therapist also emphasized to my son that people with ADD can have successful, happy lives or they can end up being pretty miserable, and that only he can determine how things will turn out for him. A hard truth, but said with great empathy and kindness.</p>

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:)</p>

<p>As little ones, my kids would run around the waiting room at urgent care, run out and down the hall when they had ear infections, I used to look around and see all the other miserable, clingy, crying toddlers with a bit of envy. When they were really quiet, I knew they were really sick. Not sure if this holds true with teens, but it probably does.</p>

<p>Also, you keep referencing reading - have you ever heard of Irlen Syndrome? It’s sort of “controversial” in the way that NVLD can be, but it may be worth you and your son googling it and looking at a self-test.</p>

<p>sk8rmom - I’m sure you can choose the teachers that you want to fill out the questionnaires and I think it would be better to have teachers that “know him” the best fill them out, just as long as they are not teachers from five years ago.</p>

<p>RobD - OT helped with the sensory stuff, a lot. She’s both avoiding and seeking, learning all that really shed a lot of light on everything. When she was a baby, she used to throw herself backwards when we were holding her, can’t tell you how many times I almost dropped her. I think that the sensory stuff and attendant meltdowns helped us help her a lot sooner than a lot of bright ADHD/Inattentive type girls get recognized and tested. A therapist that we worked with observed in class a number of times and she always remarked about how d would seem to be clued out and daydreaming but when called on would have the most comprehensive answer in the room. I didn’t really think that she was “gifted” until someone suggested the Uniquely Gifted website, which changed our lives, really.</p>

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<p>“So the effectiveness of the meds is an indicator for ADD.”</p>

<p>For the record, I don’t know that I have ever heard that from another psychiatrist, and this is in contrast to what I believe, at least in the short ( six weeks to a year) term. </p>

<p>That is, many will report improvement at least in the short term ( “Which I guess is why they are so popular with non-ADD kids at exam time”). It COULD be that objective benefits will not persist in the long term.</p>

<p>While I treat children and adults with ADHD using both meds AND therapy on a regular basis, I have yet to find any evidenced based literature demonstrating a robust long term benefit ( i.e treatment with medication beyond three years, or difference in outcome in controlled, blinded studies). There is some evidence of benefit in studies that include treatments in addition to medication. While that is distressing,I don’t actually believe the findings, and it doesn’t not stop me from treating individuals.</p>

<p>"For the followup study, a multi-site research team evaluated, at ages 10-13, 485 children from the original MTA study, the first major randomized trial comparing different treatments for ADHD, published in l999. That study found that intensive medication management alone or in combination with behavioral therapy produced better outcomes than just behavioral therapy or usual community care. "</p>

<p>“To understand why the initial advantage of medication wore off, the researchers examined medication use patterns that emerged after formal treatment in the study ended. They found that children who had been assigned to intensive behavioral treatment were more likely to begin taking medication, while those who had been taking medication were more likely to stop. For example, among children originally in the behavioral treatment group, the incidence of high medication use increased from 14 to 45 percent.”</p>

<p>I also believe treatment could reduce the rate of infanticide! ( jkjk!!)</p>

<p>I think the reason I am sharing this is,I hope it means that folks who don’t end up diagnosed or on medication, do not feel that they are missing out on something huge, but it also worries me that there will be more and more individuals experimenting with prescription drugs, and feeling like a positive response is evidence of an accurate diagnosis. </p>

<p>Okay, I’m done. Sorry.</p>

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<p>Have their been any actual studies which have concluded that ADD meds would help anybody? (or the other way around) I don’t believe that to be true but that’s not what you’ll be told on a college campus. Any time I have this argument at least 80% of people INSIST that they would help anybody focus, which usually leads to arguments of the validity of ADHD. I know as well as anyone how abused they are on college campuses, but for those that CAN focus but just don’t have the discipline to do it without a drug, I wonder how much the placebo effect could come into play. I actually have ADHD and taking homeopathic remedies that I think might work help at least somewhat on a very short term basis (say, long enough to get through a rough week at school) before it all falls apart again and they don’t help. If I were just having a hard time focusing due to run of the mill low self control, if I took something thinking it was going to make it easier I imagine it really would be easier no matter what I was taking.</p>

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<p>Shrinkrap -</p>

<p>I had trouble following your post. I don’t mean that as I criticism; I just don’t quite understand some of the material that you quoted. Maybe I need it in layman’s term?</p>

<p>Anyway, my interpretation of my psychiatrist friend’s comment was that if, for example, the person taking ADD meds really had dyslexia (instead of ADD) then the meds would not cause an improvement in his ability to do his school work (would not be a way to cope with the dyslexia). However, if the person really does have ADD then the meds would cause an improvement.</p>

<p>I don’t think this in any way precludes that the meds may help people without ADD focus even better than usual.</p>