<p>MidwestParent, I found your story to be right on point. How well a student does at a reach school in large part depends on how hard they are willing to work. </p>
<p>I had an intern for two years (his father worked at our firm) who got into a very reachy LAC on a football scholarship. His SAT was under 1200 and concepts didn't come quickly or easily to this student. However, he had the best work ethic of any intern I have ever had (so likely had a good GPA). He did great at his LAC and is doing well as a third year investment banker in NYC now. On the job, his father tells me the other Ibanker analysts got the concepts a lot quicker (and his son was often overwhelmed and discouraged) but he just worked harder and eventually learned what he needed to know. Once that crossover point occurred, his superior work ethic made him the boss' favorite.</p>
<p>S1 commented his freshman year that some kids from rural schools were clearly not prepared for certain classes and he felt bad for them because it was hard enough for those who were prepared. However, I think the majority of them just worked that much harder and made it fine. </p>
<p>One of the things a student learns in college is how to dig deep and work hard when the going gets tough. In addition, they may learn that there are certain types of classes for which no amount of hard work will enable them to excel. Some subjects require an innate talent or gift beyond memorization and studying. Depending on the circumstances, the student learns that perfection is not an option (just passing is success) or learns to change classes or even majors.</p>
<p>TheAnalyst - "One of the things a student learns in college is how to dig deep and work hard when the going gets tough. In addition, they may learn that there are certain types of classes for which no amount of hard work will enable them to excel. Some subjects require an innate talent or gift beyond memorization and studying. Depending on the circumstances, the student learns that perfection is not an option (just passing is success) or learns to change classes or even majors." - EXACTLY!! You said it much better than I did!</p>
<p>The "no amount of hard work will enable them to excel" and "Some subjects require an innate talent or gift beyond memorization and studying" are the things D found MOST shocking. She had always been able to just study her way to an A. She also found it shocking that an A is a 4.0 and an A- is a 3.7, and so on. Those minuses sure bring your gpa down fast!</p>
<p>"the student learns that perfection is not an option (just passing is success)".
When D visited her premed advisor after the first semester, she said, "I bet that B really hurt". D replied, "You have no idea". I know those two B's will haunt her for a long time. We have told her that she is going to have to look at success at this school in a totally different manner than she did in h.s. She had a B- in chem first semester, which she raised to a B second semester (A- in the labs both semesters) - we told her that showed great progress and she should be very proud of that. She also got an A- in biology second semester - we told her it was fabulous that she got an A in one of the "weed out sciences". Not sure she sees it that way yet, but hope she will come around.</p>
<p>She said that even the wunderkinds who rely on the same tactics they used in h.s. (never studying) find it comes back to bite them around finals time. She finds those who have such talent and don't use it very frustrating when she has to work so hard. We told her that her work ethic combined with her intelligence will serve her much better in the future. She even had a couple of brainiac friends who didn't attend class much 2nd semester find they didn't have time to watch all the lectures on steaming video as the semester came to a close, ask her for her notes. She told them politely, no! They didn't end up faring as well as she did when grades were posted. You are right, a strong work ethic can get you far!</p>
<p>We also have a friend with three daughters who lives in our same rural town -they attended Duke, Rice, and Northwestern. They are all older, married, etc. now. She has such spot on advice, even after all these years. She told us that it took each of her daughters AT LEAST a year and maybe a year and a half until they felt like they weren't having to struggle so hard to succeed.
She told us to expect the same with D at WashU. She would use a variation of the Oz line, "You're not in Kansas anymore."</p>
<p>One of my kids is like curiouser's kid -- hung back in high school and really hated competition. This kid didn't even apply to any reach schools, since this kid envisioned them as being full of the same overachievers encountered in our high school, who would fight with each other over a point on a test (the kids in the school heard all about the parents who were screaming at each other in the guidance office over who should be the Valedictorian.) Our high school had about 350-400 in the graduating class, and is one of those Newsweek medalist schools that sends 90%+ to college including many Ivys each year. My kid went to a state university, got into the Honors Program based on a good ACT score, and was thrilled to be at the top of the class in those anonymous 400 student entry-level classes that were graded by student number. It was a huge ego boost for my kid, expecially when some of the other kids in the honors program (including a roommate with perfect SAT scores and a full ride) rec'd lower grades. I see that my kid is becoming a much more confident person.</p>
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[quote]
One of the things a student learns in college is how to dig deep and work hard when the going gets tough. In addition, they may learn that there are certain types of classes for which no amount of hard work will enable them to excel. Some subjects require an innate talent or gift beyond memorization and studying. Depending on the circumstances, the student learns that perfection is not an option (just passing is success)
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Agreed. And I think this is a wonderful life experience for these kids. Not a PLEASANT life experience, but an experience whereby they realize that they (1) CAN dig deep (2) will dig deep and (3) will have the satisfaction of knowing they can survive this type of challenge.</p>
<p>As I told my son when he faced this experience at a class or two in his "reach" school: Acing a test is not really a life skill. Refusing to fold under pressure - that is a life skill. Figuring out another route to success when you think you've come upon a brick wall - that is a life skill.</p>
<p>It is about fit as Neonzeus said. My S went to a reach school and rose to the level of the students there, did great and never regreted it. He worked hard but did not kill himself and refused to take easy classes as there were so many amazing professors that had reputations of being difficult but of offering top notch classes. He felt it was the best choice of his life or at least up there. He had so many opportunities he would not have have otherwise.</p>
<p>At the top undergrad institutions, there's always that small fish / bigger pond thing to get used to. Some continue to excel; some get used to less; and others can't take the blow to their egos and get eaten. And the other fish keep getting bigger and the ponds, wider and deeper, poor little fish. Wait until you have to swim with those other fish at a T10 law school, and, the great white sharks at the top Wall Street Law firms. And it goes on from there. Or, you can stay in that comfortable little pond.</p>
<p>mia350, great point. I think it also comes back to the personality of the student. Swimming with the great sharks would feel like a rush to some who can handle the stress of rising to the challenge. Others would feel like they're being eaten alive and it would shake their confidence to the core.</p>
<p>Sometimes it can be about maturity---that eventually a student could become one comfortable swimming with the sharks. But sometimes it's simply personality type and would simply NEVER be the right fit.</p>
<p>I would like to point out advantages of being at the tops at your "match" school. The top students at college are offered a lot of opportunities that are not open to the rest of student body. Being a shiny star has a lot of advantages in comparison to being just a face in a crowd. (Some positive and surprising facts after our D's freshman year at in-state "match" college).</p>