We are so lucky – my daughter got into two schools that I considered reaches. One of them she loved enough to apply ED (got deferred) and still seems to like, but now she has reservations about how difficult it will be. Her test scores are a smidge below average for this school, so she feels as if the school may be too hard. She also has 10 acceptances from targets and safeties, but this one looks terrific both personality-wise and financially.
My gut tells me she’ll have to work hard, but she’ll fit in and do fine. I feel as if they wouldn’t have accepted her if they didn’t think she belonged there.
Thoughts? Anyone have any experience they can share? I don’t want her to be overwhelmed and miserable, but I also don’t want her to miss out on a great opportunity.
Personally I’ve found that how well you do at a school is mostly based on work ethic not test scores. Some of the “smartest” people slack off and get the worst grades.
I was admitted to a reach school with okay test scores and was worried about the same thing. I was convinced that I would be struggling to pass classes and have no social life because of all the extra studying I’d have to do to grasp the same material. The classes are definitely challenging but I haven’t struggled to keep up like I initially expected. It’s been a good kind of challenging that I don’t think I would have felt at some of the safety/match schools on my list. I’d imagine that if she works hard there won’t be any disadvantage based off of a few test scores.
If she likes the school and financially it works well then I’d say go for it.
Thank you @Lagging – that’s very helpful. I want to make sure my opinion isn’t colored by the finances, which I do consider very important but not the only thing!
She has worked hard and done fine in HS, even with a bunch of APs over the years. I think another thing that makes her nervous is that a lot of the freshman come from expensive private prep schools, so she feels that coming from a big public HS she’s at a disadvantage. I’m just guessing.
They have a fantastic freshman retention rate, though, so the adcoms must know what they’re doing, right?
^I also came from a public school (a good one, but definitely not one of the top ones in the nation) and worried about that too. It hasn’t been a problem and, at least in my experience, really no one can tell the difference between private and public high school kids once you’re in college.
She should be fine - they wouldn’t have taken her if they didn’t think she could do well.
I suppose it depends on the school, but D is at one of her reach schools and finds there is a TON of support in terms of writing/quant center, professors meeting with her to answer her questions, all kinds of programs to help kids get settled, adjusted and do well…and thankfully she hasn’t had this experience but the freshman dean told us at orientation that he pays close attention to all his kids’ progress and reaches out when any prof says they’re struggling, to the point of banging on the dorm room door if necessary
The adcoms typically do know what they are doing- and they don’t want your D to fail either! A high retention rate is a good sign.
The only ‘disadvantage’ that my kids have seen between kids from academically strong schools (note that not all ‘expensive private prep schools’ are academically strong and not all 'big public HS’s are weak!) is whether they know how to write an essay. The ones that don’t often struggle for the first term, while they learn that skill. If you D can write a solid essay she is in good shape. If she’s not confident about that, just about every college that I know of has some sort of (free!) writing center, which should be her first port of call after she gets her schedule- start early and go often until the first few essays are successfully under her belt.
The high school divide disappears very very fast- and @lagging is right that the biggest variable is effort
If she’s just below averages, that shouldn’t be a huge concern - even kids at the very bottom can succeed if they have a strong work ethic. As for her being prepared - I went to a college with primarily Catholic school students and I came out of a not so strong public school. Fortunately I found a group to study with and picked up good study habits from them - what I found was the other kids weren’t smarter than me, they were just better prepared and had better time management skills.
Make sure your D is aware of the tremendous - and free - resources most schools offer to students. There are writing centers, tutoring centers, and places where you can learn time management and study skills. The students just have to seek these resources out. Even though my D went to school well prepared, she still made extensive use of the writing center.
I went from the smartest in my high school to the dumbest of my 4 roommates in college. Honestly, the dumbest by a pretty big margin too, not just from them having better prep in high school but they were probably just plain higher IQ than me. So it was humbling and yes some classes were tough, but some were also easy. Overall I absolutely would not have traded that experience for one where everything was easy.
But I would add that as a parent you should take your D’s resilience into mind. Is she tough mentally? Does she have a lot of self-confidence? Then send her to the reach to explore her limits. If she’s more fragile and prone to anxiety and self-doubt, then I’d think twice.
My attitude (which I think is “normal”) in those days was, “darn these classes are hard and my roommates are smarter than me, but I can buckle down and succeed in my own way.” People prone to depression and anxiety would likely instead think, “I’m too dumb and not smart enough, I don’t belong here” and that can lead into a bad spiral. Just something to bear in mind as you know your D best.
Hmm, well I do think it is a different ballgame when everyone around you is pretty smart. My son goes to a reach school and he does say it is “not like high school” and tells his brother that “college is harder.” I think it depends on how she would handle it too. Malcolm Gladwell has argued in his David and Goliath book that a student may feel more successful if they are not at a place where they are average, but rather somewhere that they are a little above average. I think it depends on a person’s temperament.
A friend of mine’s son got into Yale. At some point in the second half of his freshman year he called home. “Mom,” he said. “School here is HARD. Everyone’s super smart, and they all went to these amazing private schools. I should have gone to a private school, too…”
My friend paused and said rather firmly. “But you didn’t. Because we couldn’t afford private school. So all you can do about it – is to work harder. End of discussion.”
He didn’t struggle, per say. But he did work hard. And graduated with honors. Yale is a reach for everyone. As is Harvard, Stanford, MIT, etc… if they weren’t they wouldn’t have the reputation they do.
Many years ago, I found myself at a very demanding college after having gone to an inferior high school.
In such situations, judicious schedule planning can be useful. For example:
Take the college's introductory courses in any subject that you plan to continue to study, even if you could have placed out of it with AP credit. Chances are, the college's introductory course is more rigorous. You could use the extra preparation for later, more advanced courses in that field. (On the other hand, go ahead and accept AP credits in subjects you never intend to study again.)
Postpone the subjects that are likely to be most difficult for you until sophomore year.
Don't take more than one laboratory course at a time.
Also, make use of every academic resource available to you – office hours, help centers, even paid tutoring if you need it.
If she is only a smidge below average, the scores are not very important for most majors.
For a few majors that tend to attract students who are significantly above the average test scores. If she is planning to study something especially difficult, like theoretical physics, I would want to make sure she gets off to a strong start, but for most majors, the student’s work ethic will trump minor differences in grades and test scores.
@katliamom makes a good point: at a ‘reach’ school, everybody is smart- coming from a public high school where there is a broad range of abilities, the ‘stars’ may smart a bit from suddenly being ordinary (first day at law school the professor said ‘look at the person on each side of you- they were the smartest student in their classes, same you were. Now you are all starting over, so get to work!’).
I would not generally recommend students repeat material that they know well from the AP courses. However, it is better to determine that by trying the college’s old final exams for the course that can be skipped, to check to see how one’s knowledge stacks up against the college’s expectations, rather than just guessing or assuming one way or the other.
Regarding attending a reach school, remember that yield is higher for students for whom the college is a reach than for whom the college is a safety. So it is likely that students for whom the school is a reach may be better represented than one may think.
(Note: assuming that “reach” does not mean “reach for everyone” super-selective school in this discussion. If it does, then all students who enroll are in the same category of attending their “reach” school.)
I have to admit to secretly being worried about my DS at his reach school. I knew he had the brains for it but he came from a high school where even the AP classes didn’t seem very demanding, and he tended to be a procrastinator. Two quarters in, I can breathe a sigh of relief because he stepped up, stopped the procrastinating, and is taking it very seriously and his grades reflect it. So as long as the student has the fundamentals in place, after that it’s effort and drive (and time management skills)!
I think it depends on the reach school. A school that is a “reach for all” may be different than somebody getting into UDel (for example) from the wait list. I have two friends whose kids got into their reach schools. The first kid was told by guidance that she would not get in. When she met with admissions they told her she had a 50/50 shot but that she should not apply with her intended major or she would get rejected. She applied undecided and got in. Now she is struggling and is hoping to make the program. The second student got wait listed to her preferred school. She got off the wait list and wanted to make the business school. She did not make the business school. She made the business school elsewhere but chose not to attend.
Attending a school after being rejected from (or not applying in the first place to) your preferred major can be risky. Students should check how difficult it is to change into the preferred major after enrolling before deciding to enroll there. If they do enroll at such a school, they should consider backup plans (either another major, or transfer to a less selective school) in case they are not admitted to their preferred major.
It’s much more about work ethic than some magical amazing natural genius that appears out of nowhere. This is why high schools in Asia do so well compared to others globally. If a student is struggling, rather than giving up because they don’t have the talent, or blaming someone else, they just work harder. It is assumed that all students can reach a high standard, and it is their responsibility to do so.
In other words, your D can do it if she is prepared to work for it. If you know she would give up as soon as the going gets tough, choose the easiest college you can find.
This story was just on NPR the other day (Shankar Vedantam, the guy who reports on psychology studies) http://www.npr.org/2016/03/25/471817328/peer-pressure-may-not-work-the-way-we-think-it-does
“A new research study finds that students exposed to their very best peers became discouraged about their own abilities and performance — and were more likely to drop out.” (Ugh, that last part!)
