What's TAMS like? (Texas Academy of Math and Science)

Prep School Admissions
1

<p>Hi, I'm extremely interested in the TAMS (Texas Academy of Math and Science) early college program for high school junior/seniors at UNT in Denton, Texas. </p>

<p>Anyone who knows about the TAMS program or has experience in it, please let me know any tips when applying, standards for SAT/GPA/rankings to be competitive, and your experiences at TAMS. Also, information about the social life and clubs/organizations would be greatly appreciated! </p>

<p>I've heard mixed things about TAMS, with some people saying that staying with traditional high school would have been better for them because they would have been ranked at top rather than at the bottom of such a high leveled group at TAMS.... your opinions? </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>TAMS has one mission, providing an environment and set of experiences that develop Texas’s top students into Texas’ top innovators in science and math. Students with the proper maturity, discipline, attitude, intelligence, and commitment will see and do more than their peers could ever experience in traditional high schools. The right student will feel academically challenged, probably for the first time in their academic career, while also thriving in a social environment made up of true peers. Those looking for the path of least resistance will fail… miserably. No one will make you do your homework, sleep, volunteer, bathe, or eat. It’s all on the student, with plenty of support for those who will try. Those who cannot cope are asked to leave, often after only the first semester. </p>

<p>Here’s a couple things that may help you.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>TAMS is like going to college with a few high school experiences thrown in for good measure. TAMS has lots of good clubs, organizations, and volunteer opportunities, but they usually are not equivalent to a large, affluent high school. However, their are abundant opportunities at UNT, for those who chose to look.</p></li>
<li><p>Social butterflies often are too busy flying to do well at TAMS. For many awkward geniuses, TAMS is the first time in a kids life where they have fit in. For others, the isolation of living, working, and playing with the same weird and awkward 300 students for two years is pure torture. I saw students leave who were doing fine in classes, but just missed their old friends and family. </p></li>
<li><p>TAMS does not rank. Ranking would inevitably lead to a suspicious series of deaths and dismemberment among the student body. If your heart is set on making straight-A’s and going to UT, then you should stay at your home school and walk into the top 10%. You’ll sleep a lot more. However, if you are looking to truly challenge yourself academically and personally, then TAMS may be your place. For the first time, you’ll learn what it means to earn good grades through hard work. MIT is going to be much more impressed if you cure a form of cancer in a lab than if you got a perfect score on 26 AP tests while also being secretary of the chess club.</p></li>
<li><p>Admissions is based on likelihood to succeed in the program and interests and background in math and science. In the essays and interviews, every answer to a question should include either the words math or science. TAMS students don’t (or at least shouldn’t) go to law or business school, unless you’ve got a really good math and science reason behind it. TAMS wants people with a passion for the hard sciences, not people simply looking for their next step.</p></li>
<li><p>If you depend on your parents to wipe your ass, kiss you goodnight, and do your homework. Don’t waste anyone’s time, just stay home. TAMS staff is there to keep you happy, healthy, and most of all, safe. They will not make you study or sleep. If you need a team of people to keep you from having a panic attack after getting an A-, TAMS is not the place for you. If that A- ****es you off and pushes you to the next level, then there are a lot of good people who will help get you there.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Conclusion: For the right person, TAMS is a once in a lifetime experience. They will find great fulfillment, both emotionally and academically, while building a very bright future. For the normal overachiever, don’t waste your time or tears.</p>

<p>So, who are you?</p>

3

<p>Thanks so much, a2006meister, it sounds amazing and I will definitely apply. Since I still have a year ( I’m a rising sophomore) before I apply, are there any tips that will increase my chances?</p>

<p>Also, how are the clubs? Specifically for computer science and orchestra? </p>

<p>Thanks</p>

4

<p>Clubs</p>

<p>“Dull Roar” is the TAMS orchestra. It is not anywhere near a good high school program. You’ll get a chance to play with others, some conducting and group instruction, and limited opportunities to participate in UIL competitions. Pretty much, its there to allow people with musical background to keep it up. If orchestra is important to you, you will need to find instruction elsewhere. Keep in mind, UNT is a renowned music school and there are lots of great opportunities outside of TAMS, you just need to find them.</p>

<p>“Computer Science Club” (CSO) is a popular program. If you’re interested in CS, you’ll be very happy at TAMS.</p>

<p>Admissions
Here is my advice:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Be unique- Don’t just check off boxes off an admissions “to do” list. Create something, start something, take a chance, have a story. Lots of people volunteer at nursing homes for an hour a week. It’s nice, but why not make a real impact in the community? Maybe start a project. Anyone can show up for club meetings. Why don’t you start a club?</p></li>
<li><p>Be sincere- The Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science likes to admit people who have a sincere interest in math and science (I know, shocker). It’s not good enough to get straight A’s in you math and science classes, they want people who want to make a career in math and science. If that’s you, tell them what you wan’t to do, why you wan’t to do it, and how you’ll use TAMS to help get you there. If you’re not actually interested in the sciences, then don’t waste your time or theirs. They’ll figure it out in the admissions process, and if you do make it in, you’ll be pretty miserable. It’s fine to have non-science interests at TAMS, but its not there for people who are just looking to pad their resume. The classes are too challenging for a student who doesn’t have a sincere passion.</p></li>
<li><p>Be independent- If you get into TAMS, you’ll be living an independent life as a 16 year-old that many 18 year-olds are not mature enough to handle. Do the application yourself. Others can proofread, but it needs to be in your voice. Your parents aren’t getting into TAMS, you are. TAMS staff can tell a fake essay or a contrived interview a mile away. Personal achievement tastes better when achieved personally.</p></li>
</ol>

5

<p>Hey a2006meister, I’m coming to TAMS next year. Do you have any advice about classes, social life, study tips, research?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

6

<p>Tdkeerthi,</p>

<p>I think I have hit quite a few bases already. Here are a few tips for a future TAMS student.</p>

<ol>
<li> Studying- Do it often. You are going to get a whole lot of study tips and advice right from the start at TAMS. I know that you have heard stupid study tips in the past, but this time, they mean it. Basically, this is not high school and you cannot succeed through cramming like before. The material is very difficult and there is not a whole lot of wiggle room in the grades. One really bad exam will sink your semester. Take the classes seriously and appreciate the depth of the material. Study seriously and consistently. There will be plenty of need for late night cramming, but the real work will be done day-to-day. If you can keep a good pace, you will succeed. Many students will learn this the hard way the first semester by refusing to change their tactics in the face of new circumstances. Be smart and start on the right path from the beginning.</li>
</ol>

<p>With that said, be realistic about your studying to. TAMS is about academics, but the true TAMS experience lies in the opportunities around McConnell Hall. Study to succeed, but don’t feel guilty, anxious, or stressed because you took an evening to go to some club meetings. Trust me, you can afford the two hours you lose in studying time to go to the Rec Center with friends and hang out in Mac Lounge.</p>

<p>TAMS is not for some people, even those who get admitted. Some people will not come back for a second semester. Some will not be allowed to return for senior year. There is some flexibility for poor grades in the first semester, but after that, its 3.0 or bust. Your high school has an obligation to carry you and get you to graduation. TAMS will help those with difficulties as much as possible, but once its clear that the student isn’t going to succeed, TAMS will not draw out their suffering. It doesn’t mean these people are stupid or lazy, it just means TAMS was not a good fit and the student is not going to benefit from the experience. Most of those who leave will go back to their home school at the top of their class.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Sleeping, eating and basic hygiene- Do those things fairly often too. At TAMS, save for some very reasonable restrictions, you can live your life pretty much however you like. Except in dire situations, no one will tell you when to eat, sleep, shower, go to the doctor, study, or stop studying. It’s all on you. Some will relish in this new found independence. Many will crash and burn by playing Minecraft all night and living off of Ramen. While some will actually be able to pull off this venerable lifestyle, many more will suffer serious consequences try to pull it off.</p></li>
<li><p>Discipline- Teenagers don’t like rules. Period. I get it. Even the most reasonable restriction on your freedom is seen as an afront to justice and the American way. With that said, TAMS has a fairly comprehensive student discipline system, including chances to present a defense, appeal to higher authorities, and to ask for policy changes. When you look at the TAMS student handbook, you’ll see a list of rules like a very liberal curfew (11pm on weeknights, 1am on weekends, up for negation on a case-by-case basis for special events), quiet hours (no loud music after 8pm, etc), and other basic guidelines for living as a functioning human being (no roughhousing, littering, fighting, vandalism, stealing, etc). These rules set a very loose parameter of conduct. Of course, there are also very clear restrictions on alcohol and drugs (ZERO TOLERANCE- If anything is found in any form, you will be out of the dorm that night. I’ve seen seniors get expelled the week before graduation.)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Basically, every rule in the book has a funny story justifying its existence. Some will be careless about following these rules. They will usually be caught, receive a light punishment (usually a small assignment of discipline points, say 5 points for running in the halls. 50 points gets something like a supervise probation, 100 means expulsion. I never saw anyone get to 100 without including a very serious offense like drugs), and then given a chance to learn the underlying lesson. Others will see the rules as a challenge for them to defy, They will spend a lot of time and effort trying to find loop holes and ways to get away with things. Some will pull it off, but those that get caught will regret the consequences. These people will be unhappy and often have academic issues. Most students will get few if any recorded rules violations.</p>

<ol>
<li>Staff- The TAMS staff is a combination of full-time staff members responsible for the day-to-day management of the program and the dorm. They are mostly fair, hardworking, and well-meaning. Sometimes they will have to be the bad guys and give students a reality-check, but most of the time, they are supportive friends and colleagues. They all have open doors and will do everything they can to help IF YOU COME TO THEM. If you don’t know who Kevin Roden is by the end of the first year, you’re doing TAMS wrong.</li>
</ol>

<p>Most of your staff interaction will be with part-time, live-in Resident Assistants. They are college students, often majoring in math and science fields. You may even take a class or two with an RA. They will be your primary link to the staff and administration. You will talk to them at least once a day at room checks. They will monitor your health and well-being and will help you with any problem you can throw their way, IF YOU ASK THEM. They will be like a camp counselor, fun and friendly, but will keep your ass in line for your own good. They take their jobs seriously and have no life as a result. RA’s have a 1am curfew, not to mention 11pm room checks. For a college student, that’s rough. Treat them with a semblance of dignity and respect, and you’ll make a close friend who has your back.</p>

<p>TAMS also has Program Advisors, who are also live-in college students. They are usually RA’s who were promoted. They don’t have assigned student wings. Rather, they lead the staff in several parts of the job, work as the Hall Director On-Call during nights and weekends, and most importantly of all, advise student organizations. They are the crafty veterans of TAMS. Club execs will spend a lot of time with PA’s, but most juniors won’t. All of them will do pretty much an RA will do for you, IF YOU ASK THEM. If you don’t know what the PA’s by the end of junior year, you’re doing it wrong.</p>

<p>I hope this gives you some insights. I typed too much. Also, tdkeerthi, ask better questions. This is the last time I’m going to do a general rant. From here on out, I’m going to need something more specific.</p>

7

<p>sorry about that. how many chapters of the textbooks do you think we should read by the time school starts?</p>

8

<p>tdkeerthi, the more the better! You’ll get your texts at SummerO, as well as some homework… IMHO, the homework isn’t as important as the studying! I would take notes form the chapters so you can refer back to them.</p>

9

<p>i got accepted to tams(texas academy of math and science)</p>

<p>i am going to attend this because i think i will do great there and i am willing to push myself.</p>

<p>my main question is, will attending tams help or hurt my chances of being accepted into colleges like cal-tech, mit, or princeton(my dream colleges)</p>

<p>right now, i am one of the top students in my school(fall under top 1%) and i could easily attend ut austin by the percent rule,</p>

<p>i really like tams and its perfect for me, there is just that 1 fear, will it hurt my chances of getting to one of these colleges?</p>

10

<p>@unsunghero I had the same worry that it would hurt my chances…
But, TAMS should be more help than harm to your application, since it provides so much more academic opportunities than normal high school, and you are taking real college courses instead of high school teachers teaching college material. </p>

11

<p>There are some good things about TAMS, and if you’re going there, congrats on your acceptance! I’m a current TAMSter, and while I did like the experience, there are some major flaws in the entire TAMS system.</p>

<p>First of all, it’s a bureaucracy. What does that mean? The admin aren’t exactly there to help you, they’re there to maintain TAMS so they can–well, keep their jobs. This means they instill fear in you of having a low GPA. There’s generally an atmosphere of paranoia going around TAMS.</p>

<p>Second of all, TAMS life is nothing like your high school life. Expect to handle a lot of stuff yourself; TAMS basically taboos you if you have roommate problems (they’d rather you not talk about it) and if you seem to be struggling with subjects there’s labels of you being stupid. If you have problems, they generally want you to keep it to yourself, which sucks. TAMS though has great PR, which is why dissent among alumni are silenced.</p>

<p>A lot of people lose their personalities at TAMS–they lose their passions. There is so much more to math and science than maintaining a good grade in those subjects; for example, research and science bowl and math competitions and really loving the subject by diving into it. People forget that in the flurry to maintain their GPA. I had friends who danced amazingly and had won nationals at competitions ditch all of that in order to have a 4.0. I don’t know if it’s worth it, but it certainly made them bored and tired during their TAMS year.</p>

<p>My advice sounds cliche but in the long run, you need to stand out from your peers. You can throw yourself for the 4.0 that a large portion of TAMS students will also fight to get, or you can accept a lower GPA and find the cure to cancer or strept or flu. Up to you, but make your experience at TAMS and your last two years of high school count and make it meaningful.</p>

12

<p>I am currently going to 8th grade. I really really want to get into Tams. What are somethings that i should start doing in order to get admission? My english is not that great so does that ruin my chance of getting in? Also how do I prepare ahead for the interview and what type of questions do they ask?</p>

13

<p>@ireallywantodoit‌ Unless you’re making a C or lower in English, it won’t kill your chances. If you’re making a C or B, try to get those grades up to a high B or so if you can. If you can’t, then try to get really good grades in math and science classes to compensate.</p>

<p>Take the SAT twice. In 9th grade and 10th. Submit the better of the two scores to UNT. Study for 1-2 months before each. I used an online course.</p>

<p>If you’re taking a class and there’s an honors or accelerated version of it, you need to be in that or you have to have a really, super good reason you’re not.</p>

<p>Start your online application early, right when 10th grade starts. (It’s possible to apply and get in a year earlier but rare.) You can start it at the TAMS website. You can fill out the application in pieces, revise and edit it, and change things up until you officially submit it, so refine your essay a lot. Have English teachers proofread it. Have your friends read it. Rewrite it five times. Have them proofread it again. You shouldn’t send paperwork until your app is submitted. Have everything in to TAMS a month before the early deadline.</p>

<p>Get on your teachers’ good side. The teacher recommendations are important. </p>

<p>Extracurriculars are nice, they want to see you have interests. If you’re in UIL you can get awards you can add on your app too. Maybe do an afterschool club, sport, dance, music, art, drama, whatever you’re interested in. Volunteer work is also good.</p>

<p>If your school makes you take things like PE and health, put those off until 11th grade unless you really doubt you’ll get in. Foreign language is good though, take those. You can take geometry and algebra 2 at the same time, they go well together. Some schools don’t like to advertise you can do this but you totally can. Take extra sciences and stuff you’re interested in–my school had anatomy and physiology, geology, JavaScript, web design, psychology, and medical terminology. I took none of these, but I wish I had instead of a required class where they taught a bunch of stoned teenagers how to use a keyboard. </p>

<p>On the interview:
If you apply early, you have two shots at the interview–the early interview, and the late one everyone else goes to.
The acceptance rates for early interview are higher than the second one.</p>

<p>You will be put in a group of a handful of other interviewees, and two interviewers, usually alumni. They will ask questions about your interests, hobbies, career interests, reasons for going to TAMS, and your family. They have note sheets, one per person. They will be writing, don’t worry about it.
They want to see you say stuff in response to other interviewers but in a nice, polite way.
They asked us what the most difficult decision in our life was, and what our parents think about TAMS. For the second question don’t make it seem like they don’t care, but don’t make it seem like they’re forcing you. They also asked us what our favorite book was, and if we’ve ever travelled anywhere.</p>

<p>Wear nice clothes to the interview, do not show up in gym shorts and hoodie like one guy did. Wear what you would want wear to a job interview at a fancy business company. If you’re a girl you have a lot more leeway with what you can wear and look presentable.</p>

<p>The math tests were just like the practice ones online, and were actually kind of fun because they were a break from the campus tours and presentations.</p>

<p>Relax the night before. Get breakfast that tastes good in the morning. Be sociable and pretend you’re not nervous. You can interrogate the TAMS students running the tours at preview and interview day for tips on the interview. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

14

<p>Hey Gregory the spider, I have a question</p>

<p>I’m a Sophomore interested in TAMS, partly because of my parents, and partly because I want to be able to attend a university around the level of UPenn, Princeton, and Rice, etc. I’m at the top of my class right now, taking AP world history and physics, and IB math SL (pre-cap) and Pre-AP English 2 and Latin 2. Along with pursuing my academics, I am highly involved with extracurricular activities, I run CC, I’m in Student Council, math club, orchestra, and more. I’m having 2nd thoughts about going to TAMS though, because I’m afraid I’d lose all my friends I have in my high school right now and not be able to experience a traditional high school career. If I went to my high school I am on track to graduate as top of class, valedictorian, Class Officer, and Class president (I’m pretty popular and a big figure in my Student Council and my class as a whole). I want to challenge myself, but I also take value into my social life and living life normally.</p>

<p>Now I ask this, is Tams right for me? I’m afraid I’ll jump into Tams and de-enroll after the first semester because I would hate it there. Are there other people there I can relate to and is TAMS really worth it in my case? Please help!</p>

15

<p>@gregorythespider‌ </p>

16

<p>They do have a lot of high-school like activities.
Good luck so manychoices.</p>

17

<p>@somanychoices99‌
Sorry, forgot to log in for like three weeks, whoops.
TAMS so far is pretty great. For big name colleges you’ll get more scholarships and a higher chance of getting in, but not all your credits will transfer.
And yes, there are definitely people you’ll relate to here, but it might be slow at first, so if you come here give it a month before deciding whether or not to leave–a good gauge is waiting until after the first round of testing. Honestly if you use the kitchenette and make food and post on facebook that there’s free food in the kitchenette, then you’ll meet people really quickly, even if it’s just premade cookie dough you cooked. I actually made three friends last week because they did that.</p>

<p>What I found is that social life kind of integrates into everything else, since you live with your class. I was also going to be valedictorian and had tons of friends back home–I still talk to my best friends, and I’ll see them at least once a month at closed weekend, so that part’s not that bad.</p>

<p>For whatever reason my workload is way less than it would have been at high school (mostly because I avoided AP US history), but the classes are harder and you learn tons more. Lectures are actually interesting to me, and grades in everything but English and math are entirely test grades, and there’s only like five and one of them is usually dropped (the worst grade), so if you’re bad at testing then maybe consider that.</p>

<p>TAMS is not really like high school or college–since the class size is about 200, everyone knows each other or at least knows of each other. There are plenty of clubs and leadership slots available. There’s a business organization, a robotics club, computer science, medical society, orchestra, math club, debate and several nonprofit and volunteer organizations you can join. There’s always something you can do.</p>

<p>If you’re wanting to get a head start on college or even just get more fulfilling classes, then TAMS is for you. If all that matters to you is class rank and your current positions, then stay at your high school. Where you’re at now, you should be set for the colleges you want no matter what you choose. TAMS would definitely be the less boring option in my opinion.</p>

18

<p>Also I’d like to add that for studying, it seems to be something I do as my default activity–since I’m not in class for eight hours a day every day and I have homework in only three classes (english, math, bio lab), I have tons of spare time which I use to study because I can’t really think of anything better to do. It’s not a chore, in other words, it pretty much just replaces browsing the web all the time. (Though studying often involves browsing the web.)</p>

19

<p>The one thing I’d say to anyone considering TAMS is to make sure you are hungry for it. </p>

<p>If you’re not starving for intellectual stimulation in your current school, it may prove to be too much of a sacrifice. When I went to TAMS, I felt the loss of what I left behind keenly (family, friends, extracurricular opportunities that TAMS didn’t offer), but I also felt deeply rewarded by the richer learning experience I got in return. I was hungry for the light of learning, and TAMS fed it to me, but that was counterbalanced by new hungers for the lost intimacies of home. </p>

<p>Eventually I made friends and developed a “TAMS family”, but that process takes time and many kids drop out or wash out because they were already quite full at home and TAMS feels empty by comparison, especially in that first semester.</p>

<p>And this…</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>is exactly what I’d advise to anyone who ultimately decides to attend TAMS. The sooner you can break the HS habit of doing all your homework and studying at the end of the day, the better you will do. Three 90-minute study sessions a day, slotted into the gaps between classes, will be more efficient and less mind-numbing than one marathon session. Yes, you will have all-nighters on occasion, but the more you can make that the exception instead of the rule, the happier your academic life is going to be.</p>

20

<p>Let’s say that you like to learn but you aren’t making good grades, like let’s say that my grades are all high Bs. Could I still make it into TAMS?</p>