<p>Because I’ve seen really, really crummy high schools, and I’ve seen very highly selective high schools; and I’ve seen very prestigious colleges, and I’ve seen second-tier state colleges. The range of variation is very, very different.</p>
<p>When I have the parent of a recent Northwestern grad tell me his daughter was more challenged by her high school courses than her college courses, I conclude that (a) there’s nothing special about the prestigious A-list college, and (b) there’s something very special about the high school. </p>
<p>When I look at the assignments and exams that my S was expected to complete at our crummy local school and compare them to what he is expected to master at the significantly better Catholic school where he is now; and then when I compare those assignments and tests to those that my D is faced with at the highly selective residential high school she attends, I conclude that the variation in high schools is enormous. (And our local school, bad as it is, is still far better than some inner-city schools.)</p>
<p>When I consider the abilities of some of the computer science graduates I used to work with, some of whom were from UIUC (one of the top-ranked CS departments in the country) and some of whom were from Eastern Illinois University (unranked in just about everything), and observe that it unless one knew beforehand who graduated from where it would be impossible to split them, then I conclude that there’s darn little credibility in rankings.</p>
<p>It has not been D1’s experience. She came from a highly competitive high school. She was very well prepared for the humanities courses, but she felt her “brain was stretched to the max” in her math/econ courses. Whereas her friends from the same high school who went to lower ranking colleges breezed through their econ courses. She said it’s what they were expected to know and the pace of course that were different. In many of her courses there were very little review of old material, and their exams were not what was taught in class or homework they have done. In order to do well, they had to know beyond what was taught in class.</p>
<p>^^ I don’t believe that a kid’s life will be ruined if they choose Northern Illinois over the University of Chicago, for whatever reason. Nor do I doubt that many bright, well-educated, successful people have graduated from less-prestigious schools.</p>
<p>Still, I think it’s a leap to say there is very little difference in the quality of education at various colleges. There are many clear, measurable differences in features such as class sizes, faculty compensation, facilities, student qualifications, etc. Whether those differences should matter to everyone, equally, is another matter. </p>
<p>Comparing the performance of computer science graduates in, say, corporate IT jobs is not very indicative. The CS curriculum is highly standardized. Most college CS departments do teach pretty much the same set of basic courses (Algorithms, Data Structures, Programming Languages, etc.) Furthermore, if there are significant differences in what a top CS student can learn from a Donald Knuth at Stanford, compared to what can be learned from an average CS professor, those differences won’t necessarily manifest themselves in your average programming job for a bank or insurance company. Many IT jobs do not necessarily tax employees with respect to the Science in Computer Science. </p>
<p>The real test is how well colleges prepare good students to make new contributions to knowledge. That (not job training) is the mission of the best colleges and universities. If some colleges do that exceptionally well, but certain jobs don’t take advantage of the added value, then perhaps this only reflects the requirements of those specific jobs.</p>
<p>I’ve already deconstructed your list of ranking criteria, and won’t repeat that here except to say there is zero evidence that any of those improve the quality of undergraduate education. </p>
<p>The CS grads I was referring to were not in garden variety corporate IT jobs. They were consultants for one of the (at the time) Big 8 accounting/consulting firms for whom I was doing an external consulting gig. Were the UIUC grads better at developing complex algorithms? I don’t know. But at helping clients define their needs and designing and implementing creative solutions for those needs, there was no discernible difference in ability.</p>
<p>The young lady whose experience at Northwestern I recounted was in a pre-med curriculum and is, in fact, starting a combined PhD/MD program this fall. Her comments did not relate to humanities courses.</p>
<p>It’s not necessary to recruit developers from top tier schools. I have worked with developers from consulting firms (I use them when we run out of resource) and we tell them what we need to do and they deliver. The difficult part is defining what is it we(the business) need.</p>
<p>I’m not in old fort’s industry, but conceptually, I agree with her. The ability to ask the right questions, determine objectives, tailor solutions to those objectives and solve problems for which there is no path is critical.</p>
<p>Pre-med requirements
Most Schools call for similar classes for requirements. These consist of:
•A year of Freshman Chemistry along with the appropriate laboratory courses
•A year of Organic Chemistry along with laboratory courses
•A year of Biology along with laboratory courses
•A year of Physics along with laboratory courses
•A year of English
•A year of Calculus or other advanced math classes, including Statistics</p>
<p>Other than those required courses, one could graduate as an English or History (or any humanities) major and still get into a medical school. Most pre-law or pre-med students tend to pick and choose their courses carefully in order to graduate with highest GPA.</p>
<p>We also hire consultants when we can’t figure out HOW to do something or trying to figure out if we are doing the right thing, and that’s when we pay mega bucks.</p>
<p>What is the best undergraduate preparation for an MD/PhD program?
There is no one right preparation for MD/PhD. MD/PhD students have been successful with undergraduate majors spanning from English to Physics.</p>
<p>Regarding the original question, people with a lot of money do tend to behave differently than people with modest amounts of money, who in turn behave differently than people with no money. Each of these groups has some negatives perceptions about the other groups’ attitudes, simply because they are different. A Muslim visiting Brandeis University might come away with a negative impression of the student body as a whole, as might a fundamentalist Christian visiting Notre Dame, or a white kid visiting Grambling. Sexism, classism, and racism in all their forms boil down to an inability to relate to a group with different appearances, attitudes, or behaviors.</p>
<p>Having moved between different social strata in my lifetime, I see how it’s all relative. I grew up as, if you’ll excuse the expression, white trash. Now I’m solidly middle class. I’m one of the people my family used to resent for thinking they were better than we were. I don’t think that anymore, because I’m around middle-class people all the time, and I know most of them are just fine. But when I’m around wealthy people, on average I still find them to be more arrogant and detached than “people like me”. And yet intellectually I understand that it’s all relative, and if I’m wealthy one day and start spending a lot of time with other wealthy people, they’ll mostly seem fine to me, too.</p>
<p>“What is the best undergraduate preparation for an MD/PhD program?”</p>
<p>-I suspect any UG. I am aware that applying to Med. School for MD, UG does not matter. Got to have very high college GPA and decent MCAT score (3.6+/31+). Since both are required for MD/PhD, I conclude that the same is true. However, it is much much harder to get into MD/PhD, 3.6/31 probably will not be enough. Med. School does not care about UG major, any will do as long as Med. School requirements are covered. So, if one goes to selective Conservatory of Music, he still can apply to Med. School, as long as he had taken all required classes. There are examples of any major or major(s)/minor(s) combinations. I do not know about MD/PhD.</p>
<p>"At that point, you’ll have to resent members of the royalty! "</p>
<p>-Do we have to resent anybody? Seems to be waste of emotion, unless you enjoy resenting as entertainment, some people do. I love royalties, even the stupendious ones, they are the most entertaining anyway. The world would not be the same without. Thanks to UK for keeping them.</p>
<p>Have a sense of humor, MiamiDAP. Anyway, I don’t resent royalty, and if I did, it wouldn’t because they’re royalty, it would be because they have lots of money that they didn’t earn. But it’s a moot point, because I don’t resent them.</p>
<p>"I don’t resent royalty unless I have to support them! "</p>
<p>-We support much worse people than royalty, we support killers, terrorists, all kind of criminals including their training to become such a person. We support all our enemies. I much rather give even more to royalties, they will not kill me…and they are not supporting my enemies, they are not bashing my friends. I like to be entertained by them.</p>