What's with all of these private college "rich, snobby, elitist" comments?

Parents Forum
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<p>I agree that the clothes comment was not about money, it was about general types. the fact that you can buy J.Crew for 7 bucks doesn’t mean anyone would wear it; at my D’s alma mater, you could hand it out for free and you wouldn’t have seen it much.</p>

<p>Even in the seventies different looks prevailed. The first school I went to was all girls with preppy sweaters tied around their necks, and guys in boat shoes. I did not fit in. The school I transfered to was jeans and flannel shirts and sweatshirts and T’s. I fit much better there. </p>

<p>I don’t think it’s necessary to call anyone’s comment “dumb” in any case. (and that comment definitely lacked the winky face of your later comment.)</p>

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<p>My daughter will attend one of these snobby and elitist private schools next fall. And what is worse, it isn’t even a HYPSM, although it is in very close proximity to two of those schools (kind of like playing a doctor on TV, haha). This school is also considered a safety school for Ivy League caliber students and as such is full of Ivy rejects. Who cares! If the kid likes the school, they will find their people. One advantage we have found of her attending this school vs. the top schools that only offer need based aid is that she has been able to cover nearly all of our EFC with outside scholarships that are renewable for all four years. If she had been at a need only school, these scholarships would have reduced the money the school awarded her, not our share. I am very grateful that she chose the school she did, snobby and elitist and all!</p>

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<p>Close to H and M? Does it have a cross enrollment agreement with H and/or M? If so, perhaps she can study in H or M courses of her choice even if she was not admitted to H or M (sort of like a school arbitrage opportunity if one is primarily concerned about learning in class, rather than prestige of the school name).</p>

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<p>One more “vote” for looking at the fit. I like the comment about elitist attitudes and rank compared to state flagship schools (post #17). One problem we had with looking for schools back when was the “why pay more for a lesser private school” issue. I suspect the economic elitism is worst at middle of the road/somewhat above the median private schools and not the most elite academic places. Given the abundance of private schools on the east coast it is in many ways harder to school shop there- so many choices that may be better academically than the state school choices. Here most opt for the flagship or the other state schools, regardless of financial means.</p>

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<p>I also want to note that within the group of full pay families, there can be mega differences in attitudes towards money. One philosophy is to give the kids a set amount of money for the semester or the year and let them budget it and get the rent, phone, etc paid. The contrasting philosophy is mommy pays all the bills, and the kid has a credit card for whatever his little heart desires.</p>

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<p>" The contrasting philosophy is mommy pays all the bills, and the kid has a credit card for whatever his little heart desires."</p>

<p>the second dumbest comment i’ve read… Because someone pays their childrens education and provides them with a CC,they must feel elitist,maybe evn they are a wealthy snob…</p>

<p>I know many that fit into that scenario who are some of the nicest,well respecting kids ypu’d meet…and i know many people of lesser means who think the world owes them everything…</p>

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<p>@ qdogpa - I believe you are taking cnp55’s comments out of context. I believe her statement was intended to infer the difference between a student that had a budget, and one that had fees covered and a credit card with no spending limit from their parents…ie, no budget. I could be wrong, but that’s my take. Not every student with a credit card from their parent has the same rules. I don’t think that’s what cnp55 was intending to say. Many say “just for emergencies”, or “you have a limit of $X/month”.</p>

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<p>Fair enough,and i apologize if that is the case…what irks me is the prevalence of bashing so called wealthy students,and the pricey colleges they may attend…how they are elitist,snobby etc…it is not just this thread,but goes on everyday…have you seen one thread criticizing middle class or lower middle class students and how they may be wasting their parents money by attending mediocre colleges,how many won’t ever graduate? I have never seen a thread making any type of accusation like this…</p>

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<p>Quoting post #17:
“My personal, highly subjective impression is that students are most likely to run into an elitist attitude (and lots of rich people) at private colleges that rank no higher than your state university. In my experience, families on tight budgets do not send their kids to colleges that rank no higher than State U but cost more than State U. Wealthier families sometimes do.”
This is the most astute comment on the subject.</p>

<p>When I read the OP, I was inclined towards ‘don’t worry about this too much,’ but reading the responses I realized that, especially for those who care deeply about fitting socially, my attitude was not as considerate as I thought.
Also, there are different types of what some call ‘Elitism.’ There is the socio-economic, which most addressed here, and the intellectual, and the ‘pedigree,’ and I’m surely missing some.</p>

<p>College visits can help with this, and so can virtual tours and watching YouTube clips, talking to others, and most of all- our kids looking into their own hearts.
Finally, nothing, not even a choice of college, is final-set-in-stone-here-I-am-for-the-rest-of-my-days. Our kids want to make a good choice, and how grateful we are when their record allows them the opportunity to choose. But life will have many unforeseen choices down the road, and so-called wrong turns can be righted.</p>

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<p>I’d be cautious in saying that only the privates have “rich, snobby, elitist” kids. In Texas, wealthy oil tycoons and ranchers very often opt to send their kids to UT. There is a large contingency of students there who come from private preps and wealthy families. Similarly, the stereotype cast by many Virginians against students who go to UVA is that of rich, NOVA trust fund babies. I’m sure there are other “elite” publics who also have the rep. The views of one, however, aren’t necessarily the views of another. </p>

<p>Best advice…visit the schools, reiterate the importance of being open-minded, and let your son decide where he feels comfortable.</p>

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<p>I remember overhearing a conversation between 3 of my D’s classmates, putting down a 4th as a “spoiled rich kid”. Two of these three were much wealthier and more privileged than the girl they were dissing, and soon the conversation moved on, as one invited another to spend a week at her Caribbean vacation home. It became clear that her family viewed the vacation home as a necessity, and had not put money aside for her education, like the parents of the “spoiled, rich” girl. I think this is more the rule than the exception-- people who are jealous make such accusations toward those they’re jealous of. When I hear “spoiled, rich, snobby,” I generally think it says more about the accuser than the accused.</p>

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<p>Yes, fit is critical, and staying overnight can help kids determine (albeit from a small sample size) whether they can see themselves there.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if by “rich and snobby” one means colleges where a lot of kids went to private high schools and where relatively few kinds are “poor” enogh to qualify for financial aid . . . here is last year’s Entitlement Index, thanks to the original poster on CC.</p>

<p>The first number represents the percentage of students who were admitted from private schools. </p>

<p>The second number represents the percentage of students who do not receive need-based financial aid from the institution. </p>

<p>The final number is the “Entitlement” (“preppy”) Index score. </p>

<pre><code> % private schools % students w/no need based aid “Entitlement Index”
</code></pre>

<ol>
<li>Davidson 52 67 119</li>
<li>Washington and Lee 40 73 113</li>
<li>Trinity 57 53 110</li>
<li>Bates 48 60 108</li>
<li>Middlebury 45 60 105</li>
<li>Kenyon 46 59 105</li>
<li>Williams 46 58 104</li>
<li>Univ. of the South 48 55 103</li>
<li>Connecticut 48 54 102</li>
<li>Colby 40 60 100</li>
<li>Skidmore 40 58 98</li>
<li>Bowdoin 43 55 98</li>
<li>Haverford 39 57 96</li>
<li>Furman 39 57 96</li>
<li>Wesleyan 44 52 96</li>
<li>Amherst 44 52 96</li>
<li>Barnard 47 48 95</li>
<li>Swarthmore 40 51 91</li>
<li>Pomona 40 49 89</li>
<li>Whitman 30 58 88</li>
<li>Scripps 37 51 88</li>
<li>Franklin & Marshall 34 53 87</li>
<li>Colgate 30 56 86</li>
<li>Colorado 30 55 85</li>
<li>Dickinson 38 47 85</li>
<li>Sarah Lawrence 31 52 83</li>
<li>Hamilton 40 42 82</li>
<li>Vassar 34 47 81</li>
<li>Wellesley 37 43 80</li>
<li>Denison 30 49 79</li>
</ol>

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<p>“So my question is do we ignore these comments altogether or are there going to be some cases where the cautions are warranted?”</p>

<p>cbug - As many prior posters point out, your son is the only one who can say whether he feels “yeah, this is a place I could spend four years” or not. Frankly, the terms “rich” “snobby” “elitist” can have wildly different meanings for people.</p>

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<p>You can’t necessarily tell how much money people have based on what they wear, and that wasn’t what I was asserting. But the clothes people choose can project certain attitudes about the wearer, and to a certain extent, give you a sense of what may be their general values. That’s why career counselors always say to dress for the job that you want, not the one you have, right? Similarly, at a school where all the girls you see are carrying Coach bags and all the guys are sporting designerwear, it won’t tell you for sure that all of those kids are rich (you can get these items on Ebay, at thrift shops, on sale), but it could suggest that on that particular campus, it’s important to the students to be brand conscious, and if the brands are luxury brands, then to give the appearance they both enjoy and can afford luxury (whether or not this is the case). Similarly, at a school where all the kids are sporting school sweatshirts, it suggests that school pride and school athletic teams are key to “fitting in”. Or at a military academy, the uniform denotes that students are obviously, focused their training to become U.S. armed forces officers, and want to present a constant appearance of military readiness. </p>

<p>I don’t think the OP has a problem with their kid going to school with rich kids, I think they are worried about their kids not fitting in with a prevailing school culture. And I think one of the ways to evaluate that is by simply observing what you see around you. If you notice that all the kids at a particular college seem to be dressing the same way that could tell you a couple of things: 1) is your kid likely to fit in here and 2) does the campus seem to place a lot of emphasis on being a part of the group/acting a single unit. Depending on your kid, whether they seem to fit with the other kids, and whether they want a place where the focus is on group vs. individual or the other way around, this could give you a starting point for evaluation. It shouldn’t be your whole test of whether the school works or not, but it’s one thing to look for.</p>

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<p>There’s entitled kids with unlimited parental credit card access at state schools too! I heard about one in particular all last year ;)</p>

<p>I think a better indicator than J. Crew is Tory Burch.</p>

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<p>@ Kei-o-lei (post #32),</p>

<p>I believe the list you reproduce here is for LACs only. Do you have a similar list for universities?</p>

<p>I’m not sure “private school” and “do not receive need-based aid” are quite the right categories. Private schools include Catholic schools and other religiously-based schools, which often do not serve as affluent a clientele as fancy prep schools. Also, these days quite a few kids attend prep schools or other private schools on financial aid. </p>

<p>As for need-based FA, there are many families like my own that fall just above the cut-off for need-based FA at my D1’s college, but really struggle to make those tuition payments. In light of our financial situation, our D1 has held term-time and summer jobs straight through HS and college, and has taken out non-subsidized Stafford loans to help make ends meet. I’d hardly count that as “entitlement.” </p>

<p>Also, at most colleges international students are not eligible for need-based FA. Some international students may come from privileged backgrounds, but some come with financial assistance from their governments, and/or borrow heavily or otherwise take on a heavier financial burden than would domestic students from a similar socioeconomic background who qualify need-based FA. So once again, lack of need-based aid may not necessarily signal privilege. And finally, colleges set the bar for who gets need-based aid at different points, depending on institutional resources. At Harvard, as I understand it, anyone from a family earning up to $200K a year qualifies for need-based aid—or higher, if there are siblings in college or other special circumstances. At many less wealthy private institutions, the cut-off is lower, perhaps $180K or $160K. And at public institutions—or even private institutions with a lower COA—fewer students may qualify for need-based aid because their EFCs meet the lower COA; but that doesn’t reflect “entitlement” or “preppiness.” The fact that Harvard is generous with financial aid to students who wouldn’t qualify for FA at some other institutions shouldn’t reduce Harvard’s “entitlement” score relative to those less-wealthy institutions.</p>

<p>With those caveats, I think it’s an interesting and informative table. Not sure how well it correlates with a sense of “snobbiness,” though. My D1, whose snob-meter is finely tuned, definitely thought she picked up a snob vibe at some schools more than at others, but I think her subjective snob-meter would put Haverford and Wesleyan much lower than they appear on this list, and Wellesley quite a bit higher. My D2, on the other hand, didn’t experience Wellesley that way at all.</p>

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<p>IMO, there is no brand that is “snobby” – a brand is a thing, whether it’s a watch, a pair of jeans, a car, etc. Snobby is an attitude, and that attitude can be held by someone who makes $40,000 a year or $400,000 or $4 million. Likewise, the act of wearing a nice watch, pair of jeans, driving a nice car, etc. is not snobby – refusing to talk to or interact with other people because they aren’t doing the same is what constitutes snobbiness. </p>

<p>This reminds me of the classic suburban woman complaint that so-and-so down the street is “flaunting” her nice car or big diamond ring. Uh, no, she’s merely driving her car just like you are, she’s merely wearing her diamond ring just like you are wearing hers. It says much, much more about the onlooker than the supposed snob.</p>

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<p>Absolutely. At most state flagships, you can find people with families with BEAUCOUP bucks. Big time. They don’t need to send the kids to Fancy Schmancy Elite – what difference does it make, if the family has all that money. Why not let the kid have a nice time at state flagship and then move on to the family business?</p>

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<p>I did not fit in socio-economically at my college. Most of the kids I met had well-educated professional parents and a whole lot more spending money than I had. It was a problem because people didn’t understand that when I said I didn’t have the money to do something, that didn’t mean I just hadn’t gone to the bank lately. So they’d offer to lend me money and couldn’t grasp the fact that I had to decline because I wouldn’t ever be able to pay them back. </p>

<p>I was worried about the same issue with my children. Both of them still chose elite schools, and yes there were some minor issues related to money. But the positives far outweighed the negatives. Also, part of the reason attending an elite school is good for one’s career prospects is that one has the opportunity to meet people who are related to/know people with job connections. These folks will tend to be wealthy. Some of them will be snobby too, but not all.</p>

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<p>I’m guessing she means Tufts, and I don’t know if Tufts has such a cross enrollment agreement, but it’s hardly as though the student “needs” to study in H or M courses to “learn in class” or that Tufts won’t do the job. Really, gag.</p>