<p>“The private schools will have their share of students from wealthy families. But as many also offer significant financial aid, they will have their share of students from non-wealthy families.”</p>
<p>There are plenty of wealthy kids going to state schools too, especially in the BIG TEN, ACC and SEC.</p>
<p>The point is that the dynamic is different when the high wealth students are the dominant group. Its one thing for a kid who paying loans & holding down 2 jobs while attending school is surrounded by a bunch of others in the same boat, it’s quite another when he’s the only kid in his suite that needs to work or worry about how he’s going to come up with the money to purchase the required text for his chem class.</p>
<p>calmom, to glido’s point, I think you’d be surprised how many wealthy kids are attending the Big 10 / SEC large state flagships and how dominant they can be. I think those not i the midwest don’t fully understand that plenty of families with plenty of money are more than happy to have their kids go to these schools, and simply aren’t concerned with climbing any prestige ladder by going to Ivies et al- because they don’t need to “buy” prestige, they are already set for life. I could rattle off the names of quite successful businesspeople (by which I mean upper class, not upper-middle … $10 million home types) – who sent their kids to places like U of Iowa, U of Missouri, U of Kansas. They didn’t <em>need</em> fancy educations to become successful – those kids were going to be successful regardless. And you can bet those kids had disposal income out the wazoo.</p>
<p>Have no insight into what Pizzagirl states,however,i would be surprised if the wealthy she described,on a percentage basis,attend state schools…If they indeed live in 10 million dollar homes,spending 55k per year on a private education is nothing,even if the kids are set for life…It just fits the mindset described, expensive homes,cars, EDUCATION…i am certain some do attend state schools,but i bet more want the so-called prestige of a private education…</p>
<p>One of George Bush’s twins went to Yale. The other went to Texas.</p>
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<p>That has nothing to do with it whatsoever, qdopqa. Not all of their kids are academically inclined or dream of Harvard et al. Many are just decent students but not elite-school level. </p>
<p>Nor did the parents necessarily get their money in ways that are linked to how elite-school grads make money. LOT of people out there who have a LOT of money who got that way through sharp business acumen, inventing a product / service no one else had, being creative, having good sales ability, having a great ability to relate to people (the classic sell-ice-to-an-Eskimo) … and LOTS of industries / ways to make money that aren’t necessarily related to how-well-you-can-perform-in-a-classroom-or-laboratory. The trappings of Harvard et al are certainly pleasant, but they aren’t appealing to everyone. </p>
<p>The people I’m talking about most certainly do have $10 MM homes (well, maybe $7-8 MM with the recent market, but you get the picture). They enjoy life to the hilt, go on wonderful trips, and live wonderful lifestyles - and often give a lot back to communities or charities. They don’t need to trot out a Harvard (etc) degree to “impress” anyone. If the kid wanted to go to Harvard, great, they’d get all the help in the world to make that happen, but if the kid just wants to go to the decent state school, have some fun, as long as he’s doing a decent job academically, what’s the harm?</p>
<p>I think you’re not quite getting the concept of people who don’t have to prove anything to anyone, who don’t need to strive because they’ve already achieved what they wanted. You’re going to have to trust that I know some members of this class quite well, and I assure you they aren’t chasing after Ivy League degrees for their kids. They’re successful, but intellectual prowess isn’t what their success is based on, nor is it what they particularly value or admire in a person. They value smart – but that smart can be street-smart or deal-smart, not book-smart. If anything, if their kid wanted to go to Harvard, it would be about connections, not academics. They aren’t consumed with “moving on up” as they are already “up.” </p>
<p>And yes, you can find their kids at state schools. BTW, their kids may or may not be “snobby” or “elite.” Some are incredibly down to earth and real.</p>
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<p>That’s exactly right. It’s not as though the Bush family as a whole couldn’t have pulled some strings to get the other one into whatever elite U or elite LAC she desired. But it wasn’t <em>important.</em> The Bush twins were obviously set for life in the first place (even before their father became president). The one who went to Texas didn’t <em>have</em> to go punch a ticket at an elite school. Part of being rich is the ability to just do what you want, not have to impress.</p>
<p>Having said that, families like the Bushes – old money, old-school prep – aren’t really the type I was thinking about.</p>
<p>It is very hard work to get into a top tier school, and it sure takes a lot of work to stay in it. If mommy and daddy already got the money, and are willing to fund their fun, why would they want to do work hard.</p>
<p>What do people say - It takes a generation to build a wealth, takes a generation to keep it, and another generation to lose it.</p>
<p>We don’t have the kind of wealth PZ is talking about, but if we did, I would still expect my kids to work hard and push themselves to go to the most rigorous schools they could get into. It wouldn’t be for “punching a ticket at an elite school.” It would be just expecting them to study hard while in school, and to work hard (even at the family business) someday.</p>
<p>I first heard of Tory Burch shoes when Octomom was photographed wearing them! :o</p>
<p>In today’s world it is much harder to be a self made man by just having some street smart and working hard. My SIL’s father came to this country, didn’t speak a word of English, and still can’t, opened a dry cleaning store and made a fortune with it (multiple buildings in NYC). Today, he would be competing with dry cleaners with more efficient machines, better computer systems to manage customer information. If he was successful, he most likely would be pushed out or bought out by a chain.</p>
<p>Many successful, wealthy, smart people understand that in order for their business to grow, they can’t do it the old fashion way any more. Their next generation will need to know the latest technology for their business - marketing, managing inventory, sales MI…The only way for them to know all of those things is through education.</p>
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<p><em>I</em> personally agree with you, oldfort – and I’m also the kind that just values being smart / intellectual for its own sake and I do relish the general atmosphere that elite schools provide. Having said that, and having hung around a good number of these people in various social circumstances, I’m kind of their nerd :-). Seriously. They would see people like you and me as just being too serious and intellectual and earnest – life is fun! Loosen up! Put down the books and go meet some people! </p>
<p>I would even say that within the realm of elite schools, they’d be more likely to favor those that they would perceive as having a lot of social benefits and active social life (e…g., Princeton, Stanford, Duke) over the more “cerebral / egghead” places (e.g., MIT, U Chicago, Caltech). I mean, the idea of their kids spending their time with Great Books or in the chemistry lab wouldn’t make them rub their hands together with glee or sigh that they wish they had those opportunities. They’re just not intellectually-inclined people. But they’re smart in a lot of other meaningful ways and successful as a result.</p>
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<p>Totally agreed … Having said that, some of those things aren’t necessarily taught in elite schools.</p>
<p>If I was that successful and had a meaningful business to pass on to my kids, I would want them to get an excellent business degree.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, i am not disagreeing wholeheartedly by any means…BUT,lol, many well to do collect things,be it expensive homes,cars,art,et al…so if they can easily afford it,why wouldn’t they want there children to have a pedigree degree? Even if the offspring graduate with a 2.5gpa,and slacked off?.. And i don’t necessarily think thqt degree needs to be from HYP type wchools,but private…they surely aren’t looking to save money on an education</p>
<p>Oops, see Pizzagirl made a similar statement about schools…should read first,then write. ;)</p>
<p>It isn’t only a stereotype at private colleges. The state-flagship of Virginia is UVA, and I’ve heard those comments applied several times.</p>
<p>Especially at some of the older publics, there are old-money families whose family traditions and identities are deeply bound up with the public flagship. That was certainly the case at Michigan, where as an undergrad I met a number of wealthy kids who were 5th- and 6th-generation University of Michigan. For kids from those families, attending Michigan was just what you did; it was like inheriting your surname. It was a bigger deal to those families that their kid went to Michigan than if the kid had gone to Harvard. I’ve always heard the same is true at UVA, and in some places in the South, like Ole Miss.</p>
<p>Then there are the nouveau riche, the kind Pizzagirl is talking about. On the Coasts, but especially on the East Coast, it’s important for the newly wealthy to break some social barriers by having their kids attend elite private schools. That’s much less important in the Midwest, where with few exceptions the public universities ARE the best schools, where relatively few kids go to elite private colleges and where doing so is not seen as a mark of social status, and where names like “Brown” and “Penn” and “Williams” and “Amherst” just don’t resonate (though everyone’s heard of Harvard, Yale, and Stanford; even Princeton gets a quizzical look at times, though). </p>
<p>My D, back home in Minnesota after her first year at Haverford, draws completely blank looks when Minnesotans ask and she tells them where she goes to college. She usually quietly explains that “it’s a small liberal arts college in Pennsylvania,” and lets it go at that. That’s generally a conversation-stopper, though if there’s a follow-up question it’s typically something like, “So how did you end up out THERE?” as if she somehow must have gotten lost, or perhaps has a father-by-a-previous-marriage living in Pennsylvania and supporting her (she doesn’t), or didn’t have the grades to get into “the U” or Wisconsin-Madison, the two schools where most of the best students in the state end up. And these are generally smart, educated, successful people doing the asking. To a far greater degree than is commonly realized, the appeal of elite private colleges—especially those beyond the HYPS level—is largely a regional phenomenon. Lots of Minnesotans know about Grinnell, Carleton, and Macalester, and regard them as good schools. Most couldn’t name a single LAC in New England, New York, or Pennsylvania, and most couldn’t name more than half of the Ivy League, or correctly identify those schools on a multiple-choice test. “Trophies” they ain’t; not in this part of the country.</p>
<p>Over the years I’ve noticed that private schools are rich, snobby and elitist right up until they admit your kid when they become warm, welcoming and nurturing.</p>
<p>cbug, this conversation is very interesting, although taking many turns you might not have expected. As I said earlier, I live in northern California up the coast from Santa Clara University. I have heard the rumors that it’s full of rich snobby kids who spend all their energy partying. On the other hand, I know twin sisters who are rising juniors there and are enjoying it immensely, they appear to actually be doing some studying.</p>
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<p>PG: I don’t think you can defend it. Most old money as well as new money would prefer to send their children to the best possible private elite college except “The Beverly Hillbillies” kind of rich families.</p>
<p>It’s very simple to explain the cause of it.
Old money knows the importance of elite colleges and so would like to take full advantage of it if possible.
New money those who made it because of education to begin with knows the importance of elite college too so would also like to take full advantage of it.</p>
<p>Now comes the new money that was not made because of education to begin with and has no interaction with people who are educated then those people are neither aware of the elite college and won’t be aware of it till the next generation when some one will open an industry hiring educated people from those elite colleges.</p>
<p>Bclintonk is absolutely spot-on.</p>