<p>for grad school, research expenditures are weighted into those rankings, (MSU is sub 100 rank)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf09303/pdf/tab64.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf09303/pdf/tab64.pdf</a></p>
<p>wouldn’t worry about it though, even a school like Brown isnt ranked in engineering for grad ME because they too lack graduate activity.</p>
<p>
This alone would be an indicator on why MSU is lower ranked.</p>
<p>Major engineering colleges don’t even need to mention specific employers. Of course Boeing is at Michigan/Berkeley/GaTech career fairs. Why wouldn’t they be? All those schools will have Boeing/Lockheed/Northrop/United Technologies at their career fairs.</p>
<p>^^c’mon he’s not saying boeing will just be at their CF, he’s saying they’re the 2nd largest supplier of grads to Boeing…there’s a difference</p>
<p>argh why won’t my quote message function work properly??</p>
<p>If what Mr. Payne is saying is correct, schools like MSU cannot win in this matter. It will be a lose-lose situation. If they don’t put data, they are challenged as to “Where do you place the students? No links? Are you running away from this?”. If they do put data, they are thought of as “trying to convince someone of something that should be readily available”.</p>
<p>Yes, that’s the whole point. Top engineering schools are at the top due to entrenched and glacially slowly changing reasons.</p>
<p>It will be a whole lot of injustice to good engineering programs if that truly was the case.</p>
<p>So the causes of top schools being top change slightly, but the consequence (they are top) will be the same?</p>
<p>My argument was never comparing MSU to MIT(etc). But surely comparing it to places like National University of Singapore (that have [in some ranking systems, ironically, only some] found a niche well into the top 50).</p>
<p>My son is looking at engineering programs in the northeast and I have to say that potential employment together with graduate opportunities are going to be our guiding statistics. In fact, in the SUNY system in New York, Binghamton University is the best in the public system, however, Buffalo’s engineering program is better. When it comes time to making his decision, he will go to the school that, 1) provides the best opportunity for employment, 2) has the best admissions rates to better graduate programs, 3) provides the most comfortable environment for him and 4) is the most competitive. If you believe that Montana will meet your needs (however you prioritize them), then you must choose that school.</p>
<p>In addition, there are schools my son could be admitted to that are more competitive than either of the NY State schools mentioned, but those competitive environments are not conducive to his learning style, and as a result, he is not considering them. If you would be comfortable in a more competitive environment and plan to go on to graduate school, this type of environment might be better for you because it would get you into a better graduate program - the better graduate programs lead to better networking and higher paying jobs.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Sir/Miss wolfarkas, I am actually an international student apparently only concerned with undergraduate programs. Thus, I don’t really have priorities as in staying with friends, a specific area of US, or anything like that. </p>
<p>(Summing up my stats)I have a 2180 in SAT1, an AP Scholar with Distinction (self studied), and am part of the IB program as well. I surely don’t have an inclination to choose the lesser of competitive schools. I am of the belief that one will meet competitive students in almost every university. Only the numbers change. Surely there have to be some brilliant students in a school of 15000 students, no? So, for a competitive environment it is always a possibility to just ‘hang out’ with those kids. I expect it to be much like how a guitarist sets his/her amplifier: so many fine knobs that he/she changes to get the sound he/she desires (that sound is only arguably the best: others may argue a different setting produces a better sound). Same way, IMO one doesn’t have to look too far to get the desired competition. And vice-versa; one doesn’t have to look too far to find the party kids anywhere too.</p>
<p>I did get admission into more competitive schools than MSU but I am having a case with MSU where one just sort of ‘clicks’ with the school and place.</p>
<p>
NUS and MSU are not peers. The former is a major research powerhouse, and the latter is a primarily regional school with limited graduate programs.</p>
<p>That doesn’t make MSU a bad school. There are jobs in Montana and throughout the western US that are very available to MSU grads, and you can probably get a good engineering education. If you like what the school offers, it may be the right choice for you.</p>
<p>Have you visited MSU? Rural Montana can be a bit of a culture shock if you aren’t familiar with it.</p>
<p>May we know what other schools you’re considering?</p>
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</p>
<p>Are you referring to the part when they tell incoming freshman where to store their firearms?</p>
<p>Montana State actually does a fair amount of research. It won’t compete with the big name schools but it isn’t tiny either.</p>
<p>I have never been to the States, so I am going with whatever the universities portray on their respective websites (and once in a while get a second opinion from other websites). While that is true, I must also add here at this point of time that I have done a considerable amount of looking around online. I have looked at lots of websites and do get a unique vibe from every university. I know it is far from the real thing, but that is all that I have to work on.</p>
<p>As far as the firearms are concerned, I am not at all into guns and hunting, and I sure hope the university knows how to handle those who are interested.</p>
<p>I am an international so basically US is going to be a cultural shock for me. I am trying to be mentally prepared, but even then, I am quite sure that when it actually happens it will be a lot different than what I am expecting. I really hear great things about Montana.</p>
<p>I have been accepted by Minnesota State University Mankato, Mississippi State University and South Dakota State University (this was only a backup).</p>
<p>While we are at it, if you had to recommend between NUS and MSU, which one would you recommend?</p>
<p>Montana is a fun place to live. It will be really different than what you are used to. I knew students from all over when I was a student there, and that was cool.</p>
<p>I would recommend Montana State over Minnesota State, Mississippi State, and South Dakota State easily. I don’t know anything about Singapore…but I can say that the environments of Singapore and Montana are so different than it’s really not a good comparison.</p>
<p>I can also say that if you goal is to work in the United States, going to a United States university is much better than going to a foreign university.</p>
<p>I would say that NUS is the “best” school out of your choices, but that does not necessarily make it the best choice. As bigtrees said, going to a US school is a good idea if you want to live in the States.</p>
<p>Bozeman is the polar opposite of Singapore in almost every way imaginable. That may be a good or bad thing depending on your temperament.</p>
<p>It can be somewhat difficult to get jobs in the US as an international. Not impossible, but difficult. Try to find out what employers recruiting at MSU hire internationals.</p>
<p>I agree completely.</p>
<p>Where I come from, NUS is glorified to the extent that people blindly apply (they won’t click on “Why you should choose NUS”, they will directly click “Apply to NUS”) and hope they get accepted. NUS has a 3 year bond (available for internationals) that is very lucrative (around US$25,000/annum becomes close to $7000/annum). But there is a huge catch. NUS wants the signer to have to complete the entire course at NUS itself and then work for 3 years with a Singaporean company (this generally is a close to minimum-wage job). People I know who could easily afford US$25000 sign the bond to get the short-term benefit of about US$70,000. What they don’t see is that the bond ties them to a small country for 7 years (not to mention the almost inevitable thinking later, "Well I know every nook and corner of this city and am settled well here [girlfriend, house, car, etc], so why should I try to move?).</p>
<p>Singapore has a huge population density (second to only Monaco in the whole world), and yes, sometimes it really gets to one (I have been there quite a few times). Montana, on the contrary has a low population density (I think the comparison was like Singapore has 17000/sq.mi and Montana has 4/sq.mi). I surely prefer Montana’s population density. In fact, I have heard that NUS is only selective because it cannot accommodate too many people anymore. Opportunities are flattening with time (some say already flattened a long time ago).</p>
<p>The really ironic thing about NUS is its ranking. In one of the rankings, it is around 30th. Then, somewhere else, it is around 185th under the same criteria. This was really news and a friend and I were truly amazed when we checked this (which is when I started questioning the rankings in my mind and didn’t hold MSU’s ranking against it as it was fairly obvious what is happening there. Besides, MSU doesn’t seem like one of the schools that is going to go compete for a ranking. I think so through the friendly and casual way they reply emails and the fact that they don’t go after Collegeboard for names of students.). There are very few students in my school who want to go into even the nitty-gritty of NUS. There are a whole lot of opportunities (even Down Under is great, if one doesn’t want to go as far as US) elsewhere.</p>
<p>The reason, according to me, why NUS is on the map is basically because of its region. I believe that the universities around Singapore (especially in the South-east Asian region) aren’t truly even up to the mark yet. If you place a bronze medal on a bad table, it will look like gold. But in MSU’s case, if you put a silver medal on a great table, it will look like bronze. I guess it is all about the immediate relative competition.</p>
<p>I know this sounds much like a diatribe directed towards NUS, but it is truly and entirely my opinion that I am stating. Forgive me if I hurt anyone’s feelings, but I am judging this in as nonpartisan a way I could (to a certain extent, for NUS, nonchalant too).</p>
<p>
If the criteria are the same, the ranking is the same. Obviously the second ranking had a different methodology.</p>
<p>NUS is very respectable, especially for engineering.
Humans have a natural tendency to downplay what they’re used to in favor of the promising unknown. That’s why many kids in the US disregard the excellent schools in their states in favor of faraway possibilities.</p>
<p>MSU is a fine school. I would not say that it is as good of a school as NUS. That doesn’t necessarily matter for you. I’ve never understood the need to go to the best school available when one might be happier elsewhere. Once again, I would recommend that you check out the career services at each of your choices with a special emphasis on jobs for internationals and then make your choice.</p>
<p>If you haven’t already, look at flickr photos and Google Maps streetview images for the Bozeman area to get a feel for it. You might want to check out the Montana forum at city-data.com too.</p>
<p>Thanks for your advice regarding checking out online. I am slowly getting a feel of it, although I know once I get there things will be quite different. It’s great to see such a low crime rate there.</p>
<p>A different methodology in the rankings system shouldn’t produce as drastic changes as that. I’d also like to add that in the website where they were ranked 30, NUS’s website was found under the “Sponsored Ads” heading in the side.</p>
<p>While I can see that you are correct regarding the human tendency, I haven’t really seen that to be true in my immediate environment. People downplay the unknown to go somewhere close. Actually, NUS’s encashes just that point. NUS’s brochure’s heading is, “A global university at your doorstep”. Their USP is their location. I’m pretty sure there aren’t too many Americans or Europeans filling up their university, and they know that too. So, they divert all their resources to get the students who will go there: fellow Asians.</p>
<p>I still fail to see what NUS has that MSU doesn’t, besides the center-of-attention location. NUS cannot hold a candle to MSU’s research funding. Also, it is really hard to argue which school has better professors. MSU has 1200 acres of land to NUS’s 350. Other than funding on advertisements, I fail to see where NUS is outplaying MSU. Perhaps the general quality of students due to a more selective admissions committee at NUS? Well maybe, but one can’t really surround one’s self with all the 10,000 students, only at most about 20-30. Surely one can find 20-30 brilliant students at MSU too, and just surround one’s self with them. Likewise, surely one can find 20-30 party-oriented kids at NUS too.</p>
<p>Why is this thread even still going on? It sounds like you already have your mind made up and are just wanting to rationalize your decision.</p>
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</p>
<p>Yes, but cows graze on 600 of those acres. I’m pretty sure that 600 acres of cow pasture probably won’t help improve your education!</p>
<p>NUS and MSU are different schools and it’s not practical to compare them. Go to the one you want to go to and can afford.</p>
<p>
Given the current Singapore/US exchange rate, NUS had the equivalent of $245 million in research funding in 2007 *. According to IPEDS, Montana State had about $102 million in research funding during a similar period. Both are great institutions, but let’s stick to the real data.</p>
<p>It sounds like you’ve made up your mind. Go to MSU and do well.</p>
<p>* [NUS</a> - National University of Singapore - Office of Deputy President (Research & Technology - Welcome](<a href=“http://www.nus.edu.sg/dpr/research/overview.htm]NUS”>http://www.nus.edu.sg/dpr/research/overview.htm)</p>
<p>According to the NSF ranking, Montana State had just $16 million in total engineering research expenditures in 2007 and ranked 113th in the US. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf09303/pdf/tab64.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf09303/pdf/tab64.pdf</a></p>