I guess if you cherry pick stories and have no involvement you just don’t know.
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@jpga13 Exactly, like any group there are good and bad examples. For every bad story there’s a ton of good. Many people forget that members in Greek life are just normal people. Also nice profile pic lol
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I went to a small LAC and had no interest in the little Greek life (no national sororities or fraternities) and learned more about it when I met my H who went to a state flagship. His fraternity has a strong alumni representation and things have toned down since the 80s/90s, although I don’t know that too many outrageous things happened even then. There seem to be strict guidelines for the National Fraternities. I’ve been fortunate to see both sides via my experience and my husband’s and I am neither pro or anti fraternities/sororities. My s18 did not choose to go greek, and I don’t think D21 is leaning that way either, but we would support her if she did.
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I’ve never heard of that happening, but in some instances that could be the case. The people I know who were in greek life, it really made little difference. Sure, it may have been a sorority sister or fraternity brother who told them about a job or put their name in, but they said it didn’t make a huge difference. At least that’s what they said.
I think in many cases being a part of a sorority or fraternity can be a positive and fun experience for college students. In some cases it can be a bad experience and can cause problems for the student. If you think being in Greek Life could harm your kid or affect their grades in a negative way or maybe they aren’t mature enough for Greek Life, then you need to have a discussion with your child. Just because a kid is in college doesn’t mean they’re 100% mature in every way. I’ve heard of a lot of people who made their kids pay for Greek Life if they wanted to be a part of it. Or some parents would only pay for it if the kid kept their grades up.
I don’t know that this is cherry picking - it is difficult to find any other organizations with such a strong association to student death. I teach Ap statistics and will be using these numbers with my seniors to create hypothesis tests and confidence intervals. I think my students will find the results statistically significant. Side benefit is the message is delivered loud and clear without my having to preach to them.
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My son was accepted at Union, Rhodes, and last night Gettysburg all with nice merit scholarships. I might have to pull all three off the table due to their fraternity scene. Hard to find good small liberal arts schools that stand up to this nonsense- conn college comes to mind but it is less than two miles from our house.
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Poor kid. 
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Time to raise men who know how to treat other human beings - more important than any thing I will ever do as a parent. Men with spines.
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Would love to see the analysis when you’re done - please come back and post their findings.
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With 3 sons, I couldn’t agree more.
That said, having good values and the character to stand up for them, and fraternity membership are not mutually exclusive.
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Or you can tell your child that you will only pay for Union/Rhodes/Gettysburg if they do not associate with social fraternities - which is possible at these colleges - you can show him the stats wrt to death, injury, lawsuits, etc. to back you up.
You can also contact each college and ask for what they have planned for this weekend in terms of activities (free film, club trips/meetings, activities, spectator sports, intramural sports, concerts, conferences/lectures, trips/outings…)
… There could be a thriving D&D scene your kid will be very much into over whatever frats have planned, it’d be sad to prevent him from attending him colleges he’s been admitted to that’d work out great.
What matters isn’t fraternities per se, as long as they’re 30% students and under, but rather what else can students do? Also, residential fraternities are very different from non residential frats, so you can ask about that and whether fraternity brothers are housed together in dorms.
Why did your son apply to Union, Rhodes, and Gettysburg knowing your opposition to frats?
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Students living in dorms also drink too much, party too much, fall out windows. Should schools ban dorm living?
Schools that don’t have greeks sometimes have the same issues as those that do.
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That’s a good question. I am not opposed to there being a fraternity presence on campus although I really don’t see the need for it and it seems antiques at best. I am opposed to schools that have a very high proportion of students involved in Greek life and/or have had issues with Greek life. When we first looked at colleges I didn’t associate Union or Gettysburg with intense Greek life. I knew Rhodes would have significant Greek because it’s in the south. However, after reading many many reviews Union and Gettysburg both have big Greek involvement and many of the reviews indicate problems with the frats especially. Strangely, Rhodes does not have residential frats and appears to have had fewer issues. Most reviewers Greek or not seem to think Greek life is its best possible version at Rhodes. This might be due to the type of student that attends (largely from the South) being more comfortable with Greek life in general or that perhaps they have kept whatever good parts there may be and eliminated the rest of the nonsense. I attended Villanova in the 80s and there was a small Greek presence but not enough to dominate the school culture.
2 possible reasons:
- non residential fraternities: that basically cuts down on “juniors (non)policing freshmen” issues.
- residential college in a city: students have lots of on-campus AND off-campus options.
(You can research correlation here, different factors.)
I agree with both - especially the city thing. My kids always drawn to small LAC but try to find them in big cities - hard to do. Putting 2000 kids in the middle of nowhere might have been great 100 years ago when many of these schools were founded but perhaps led to kids creating their own entertainment- and problems. Nothing worse than a bunch of entitled kids with too much time on their hands…
I was not a big fan of of frats or sororities. My personal experience living in a residential college environment was that system provides a great social structure to allow students to live and socialize in a small intimate LAC like system but still retain the benefits of a large research university. The residential colleges were/are a diverse cross section of the university as a whole. My close group of a dozen friends have the same positive dynamics as those described above of fraternity brothers – indeed we have been doing annual “boys’ long weekends” for the past 20 years. During my time, there was only 1 true fraternity at my school.
I was surprised when my S decided to rush at the same university. The raising of the drinking age to 21 had the unintended consequence of moving weekend social life related to parties off campus to the frats and sororities, and IMO a more dangerous and less inclusive environment. At his school, there are frats and sororities with very different reputations and demographics. He chose one that happens to be very diverse and with a “smart kids/pre-professional” reputation. He was able to tap into his network of “brothers” for advice and leads into his summer internships in consulting and IB. He is now paying it forward to his younger brothers. This all may have been replicable without his fraternity, but it was an easy group to fall into.
Bottom line it is an individual choice based on the specific school and Greek organization and the existing membership and pledge class. No different than other organization you choose to be part of or not.
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Great point.
@Ferryp While greek life has its problems I would like to speak up and say not all people coming out of fraternities are terrible people. Its slightly unfair to stereotype everyone in greek life as such. I’d like to think I dont fall in that category. Also you’ll be surprised how much drinking goes on in dorms. Its just a part of having 18 year olds leaving home for the first time with no parental supervision.
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I’ve yet to see what a student could get from Greek life that they could not get from other arguably healthier organizations. As far as drinking - I have a daughter who is a senior in college and I’ve taught seniors in high school for 25 years - so I’m in the loop. I agree that the drinking age of 21 has forced drinking off campus and underground which is far far more dangerous. When a school promotes a completely dry campus - it might make their life easier but imho is not the best or safest solution for the students- kids are forced into cars and bars - I am happy my daughter found a school with a sensible alcohol policy and no Greek life.