When bad admission decisions happen to good students

So, you’re a parent who gets bad news on March 10. Your extremely capable, high-achieving child has been shut out in the “Top School” sweepstakes. But “how can that be?” you ask yourself (and anyone else who will listen). “After all, my kid’s scores and grades were above the school averages!”

Having been the recipient of both good news and bad on March 10, I can say I know how you feel.

We’re dealing here, of course, with the mystery of “holistic” admissions. Please understand that I’m not trying to justify the concept of holistic admissions–well, maybe a little. Rather, I’m trying to offer some modest insight into this controversial scheme. What I relate here is not the whole story on admissions, but I’m hoping it will be helpful (and even consoling) to some of you. Admission decisions are not always clear-cut, and obviously some waitlisted applicants will just barely miss out–so what I have to offer may not apply to everyone.

The answer to your agonized question begins with an understanding of what high grades and scores can and cannot do. They can put you in the running; they cannot guarantee admission. Of course, every application is unique, but it’s pretty clear that once an applicant’s grades and scores exceed the numerical cut-offs, other factors take precedence.

High grades and scores primarily indicate that an applicant is “good at doing school”–but they don’t necessarily indicate what an individual will accomplish after schooling is completed. It seems that Top Schools are particularly interested in those applicants who are likely to make the biggest “splash” as adults–the ones who are destined to do big things, leave their mark on the world, and bring honor and glory (and big donations) to their alma mater.

These future movers and shakers are not necessarily the kids who are the best at doing school. They are, rather, kids with a certain something extra that cannot be quantified, but that admissions people believe they can spot. I won’t even try to put a name on it, as I believe it’s essentially indefinable. Indeed, it’s one of those “you’ll know it when you see it” things. I sense, however, that it’s all about temperament, or as Lawrenceville puts it, the “non-cognitive personality traits [that] are among the most important and reliable predictors of success and achievement.” (Lawrenceville 20 / 20: A Strategic Plan for Lawrenceville School, p.4.)

I have two children, five years apart. My firstborn is bright and engaging, and I did my best to help this child present as Top School material. And while I didn’t have an adequate understanding of boarding schools or the admissions game, it wouldn’t have made any difference if I did. Decision: waitlisted. And it’s a good thing, as I am convinced that this free-spirited child would have been miserable at a Top School.

My second child, a hyperenergetic hotshot, didn’t need any help. In fact, I couldn’t have compromised this kid’s admission prospects if I tried. Decision: admitted to Top Schools.

Both of my kids are smart and accomplished, yet they have very different personalities. Only one of them is what I would call “normal”–namely, the one who was waitlisted. The other kid, the one who was admitted, is…well…I don’t know what. All I know for sure is that whatever this kid has, the Top Schools wanted it.

The lesson I took away from this is that admission staffs see a lot of kids and they know what they’re looking for. They know what sort of kids will be most likely to thrive within their own particular Top School environment. So, please don’t be too quick to rail against the schools that deny your child. Those schools might just be doing you and your child a favor.

Good luck to all on March 10!

I love this @DonFefe - thank you! For “statistical proof” (such as it is) of this phenomenon, all anyone has to do is take a close look at the last couple years of Results & Stats threads.

@DonFefe I loved this… This should be pinned to “The Wall” (the wall of what I do not know but someplace prominent) for posterity!

It sounds like you are describing charisma to me. Some people have it natually, some people don’t - and maybe that is where the “holistic approach” comes in. I think when you encounter someone that bubbles over with charisma you can spot it a mile away.

@DonFefe a very logical and even entertaining analysis!

The X factor…thank you @DonFefe for this…this is exactly what I needed at this point in time. And your kids tend to be similar to mine!

The flip side is that not all this is necessarily apparent when a child is 13 years old, especially within the confines of application forms and first-ever interviews. And not every child who gets into a good school is outside the bounds of “normal,” whatever that is, and not every child likely to be a high achiever - in school or in life - is accepted.

I like the post. To me it highlights the randomness of the process. After a certain baseline academic qualifications, it is really subjective. A decision that is based upon very imprecise data. Moreover, the child at 13 is the not the same as they are at 16 even if they are raised in the same BS process so to believe that you can judge a group of 13 years so that you can weave the fabric of the school’s culture to me is a fool’s errand.

I would think you could randomize the selection (after meeting a certain academic baseline) and end up with roughly the same quality and culture. I think this is also goes for the Ivy+.

A Yale alum wrote a blog that proposed this approach.
https://mathwithbaddrawings.com/2015/09/30/why-ive-stopped-doing-interviews-for-yale/

Thanks for this post. It makes me both hopeful for Friday and also fortified against possible disappointment.

I’d like to clarify my “X” factor comment, as I realize that media/tv has glorified that phrase…it’s that intangible something that makes the AO think the candidate would fit in well at their establishment and bring something to the table…one of my questions during interviews was “what kind of kid are you looking for?”… and sure enough, the answers were varied but the common core was the intangible something…not the scores, nor the lists of accomplishments. I had recently gotten lost in the numbers and resumes of the people in various threads here and let my anxieties run wild…thanks to @DonFefe, I am reminded that if my DS didn’t get accepted, it’s not necessarily that he wasn’t good enough…it could be more that he wasn’t the right fit…didn’t have the mmmph they were seeking. And I hope this brings some comfort to others who had to apply from afar, not quite knowing what school may be a good fit for you…the websites, brochures, etc really can’t give us that knowledge. Maybe we applied to all of the wrong schools this year, maybe not…maybe we hit the bullseye. But, if M10 doesn’t go your way, it most likely is not because your child wasn’t “good enough” but more they just weren’t the right fit for the place(s) to which they applied. There is a good fit for you out there somewhere…and you will find it! Thanks again, @DonFefe, I can’t tell you how much I needed to be reminded of this!

I would add to this that the random draw of the interview could have a major impact on your child’s probability of admission. Get one with similar interests who hits it off worth your child and you have an advocate. Draw one at the opposite end of the spectrum and you may be toast. In my profession, I spend a lot of time talking to and influencing people I have just met and one of the interviewers at a school that shall remain nameless (for now) was just odd. Strange affect, strange body language, almost like someone under the influence of a medication - I can only imagine how my son interacted with this person.

Very true @Korab1 … I must say, we had a very similar experience

yep-- Have been down road before… “Do us a favor”-- my kid can tell a “good fit” by how nice (or not nice) the bathrooms are, where the facilities dark & depressing ( imagine in January), if students are in groups or mostly alone, if they were interested in my kid’s interests and how they could nurture those interests, if staff smiled, if students seemed happy, and how friendly (not friendly) the students are— could get a sense of “fit” even before the school is in the rear view mirror. Kid says, “Mom, it may be a top school and your choice, but I couldn’t actually LIVE here!!!” That bell is still ringing loud & clear.

@Korab1 – I was so turned off by one interviewer that it turned me off to the school. Luck of the draw is spot on.

I also think the AO are kidding themselves that they can find a “fit”. I have interviewed and hired many people and either our team is lousy interviewer or the correlation between the interview and their fit within an organization isn’t that strong. I am obviously going with the latter :slight_smile:

I’m not entirely sure about this. My kid had an AWFUL interview at one school and was admitted, and had an AMAZING interview at another and was waitlisted. I suspect that for some really good interviews the interviewer may think “wow, I really liked that kid, it’s too bad that [fill in weak spot in application]”, and that for some really bad interviews the interviewer thinks “well that was a dud of an interview, but because of [fill in remarkable attribute] we need to keep this kid in the running”. Hopefully too each school has more than one set of eyes reviewing each file. I also think that a particularly good interview can help you more than a bad interview can hurt you.

What I do think can have a major impact on the application which many folks don’t mention on this forum are the recommendations because they can be very telling about the day-to-day nature of a kid. This fall my kid completed a new student survey at school which asked which factor the kid considered was the most important in the kid’s admission. DC called to talk about that with me and we agreed that it was the recommendations. Scores and grades are sterile factors and really just serve to get your foot in the door. The interview is a snapshot in time and there can be good interviewers and bad interviewers and either type can have good or bad days. As discussed above I think the committee process smooths out the anomalies. And as for essays I suspect that the AO’s know that there is a huge range in the amount of help the kids get in coming up with the ideas and in the editing of the writing. But “gaming” the recommendations is tough.

To that end, I have seen at least one post suggesting that applicants print out the recommendation form and meet with each recommender to talk about what strengths and weaknesses the recommender perceives in the applicant. This can help in lots of ways: gets the recommender thinking about the kid more specifically, identifies for the kid areas of weakness which may need to be addressed in an essay or during the interview, and probably makes the applicant seem more of a go-getter to the recommender. BTW, my kid didn’t do this, but I’ll certainly suggest it for college applications. The one small thing my kid did do that was remarked upon by the middle school principal is that my kid sent the recommenders a heads-up email. Apparently it is common practice at that school for kids to just put the forms in the teachers’ mailboxes or have them sent by email without a word of explanation.

I agree with @AppleNotFar . We had some truly unremarkable interviews. In fact I cant say we had any that we felt were great or dynamic. My sons first choice school’s interview sounded like @Korab1’s experience

@AppleNotFar – Was there an outside observer to the interview or feedback or was the rating of the interview based upon your child’s perception? Korab1 statement can still be true if your child misread the interview or maybe one interviewer had a better presentation to make everyone feel great regardless how they do.

RE: the recommendations, I agree with that also. There are people that advocate better than others. I can imagine a reference that might be too busy or has been asked too many times or is a moderate fan – your reference is not going to be that strong.

To add an alternative perspective to the above post by @AppleNotFar :
Recommendations can be very varied and applicants recommendation can’t be compared (unless they go to the same school)… I think AO’s understand that as well…
The level of effort and consideration put in a recommendation vary from teacher to teacher. Last year, my math teacher asked me point blank whether I would prefer to fill out the rec myself and just give it to him (he rescinded his offer after he took a look at my shocked face). At the same time my English teacher (though he told me it was very favorable) sent the recommendation blind. Also, its unlikely that a teacher will give you a bad recommendation, most don’t want to be (perceived) the reason behind a rejection.

I don’t know if I am really articulating my point very well… but bottom line… I think that the AO’s read recommendation with a generous pinch of salt…

I think there can be a wide degree of variability in the seriousness with which teachers treat recommendations. People’s private school experience may be very, very different than someone from an area where people don’t normally go to boarding schools.

@buuzn03: Thank you so much for your encouraging words. It’s always so satisfying to hear that something that I’ve written has benefited someone. I sincerely wish your child good luck!