But this cannot be a solution suggested to a whole group of people. Firstly, it is biased. As a whole, the diversity of ECs Asians are picking up and excelling at is not necessarily narrower than those say by black students. It may appear so because there are so many Asian kids involved in at least some EC and if let’s say 20% of them are playing violin it would make violin such a dominant phenomenon. It doesn’t mean that there are not 5% playing Saxophone, 3% playing basket, 15% doing school newspaper and 10% doing student council,… you get the idea. Secondly, in the admission world where there’s such a distinction of ORM an URM and there are doors that simply don’t open for some, no matter how much you change, move and shake, the numbers would hold relatively stable. What’s changing would be WHO of those ORM gets in. Again, remember it’s a “zero sum game” in the end.
^^Please don’t try to counsel on ORM unless you are one. It just comes out more than just un-PC and more like racist…<<wait til="" your="" kid="" is="" at="" least="" 5?="">> really? I don’t think only Asians start their kids early with instruments.
@preppedparent If you chose to quote me and call me out, use my actual words which were “they can’t do at the age of 5”. Your attention to detail needs some polish.
The point being you can’t play a brass instrument at a young age. The point being, if you are facing competition for ANY reason, something you and others are complaining about here, differentiate yourself. That’s what people do to stand out from the crowd. Or you could just continue to thrash around about being disadvantaged. Your choice.
As far as colleges that don’t consider race, try University of Michigan on for size. Great school. Also there are many rural LACs that provide a wonderful education that actually treat Asians as URMs not ORMs. These are off the top of my head. There are surely others.
So, let me get this right. You can come here and whine about schools’ diversity policies and how URMs have an advantage and implying they are less qualified than your kids but you want to smack me down for commenting on ORMs? Ok, gotcha.
^^ The exact wording was “…obscure instrument…they can’t do at the age of 5,” possibly meaning that it is helpful for Asians to pick up an obscure instrument that is unfortunately too big to be handled at age 5, which is arguably a good age to start learning an instrument. The implication could be either Asian students starting instrument lessons at a later age, or change main instrument at a later age, resulting in more practice time to reach the same mastery level. I think anything that’s not clearly expressed, whether @doschicos had in her mind or not shouldn’t be asserted.
The advise makes sense and it is well believed among admission savvy Asian parents and private admission counselors. I don’t think it was un-PC, and certainly not more than just un-PC.
Beside, i think larger % of Asians do start learning instruments at a young age, which demonstrates our value in education and resulting in both far higher % of competitive college applicants AND students compare to population. I hired a really really cheap, but still amazing starving artists off Craig’s list to start my daughter’s music lessons early, even though I made very little at that time and it was still barely affordable. She loved it and got some music sense easily. She is continuing it at BS. No shame in it.
Don’t forget top Tech colleges such as MIT and Caltech. They say they don’t consider race and it is clearly shown on their student demographics if you compare it with Ivy.
Look, in this stage of “American history” (which means I believe this shall pass), there are significantly more high achieving Asian American kids apppying to a group of elite schools, which results in an over representation of Asian students in these schools. Now, I am a supporter of diversity of student body in elite schools, but let’s call an apple an apple. Of course, you don’t need to or maybe even shouldn’t admit every Asian American kid who has better grades, higher SAT, and Stella EC achievements because everyone including Asian can benefit from a diversified student body, but it is a stretch and potentially an insult to somehow turn the school’s diversity initiative to mean that Asian students who did not get in was because they didn’t find the right EC or they didn’t apply to the right school. The truth of the matter is that elite schools are already accepting Asian American students in the rare much higher than their representation in the population but they have decided that they cannot and will not admit significantly more of them. As a result, some of the equally excellent Asian students don’t get in, not because they are not excellent enough, or chose the wrong EC or applied to the wrong school. You can be as good as you can get, schools don’t want an all Asian campus, and justifiably so. It doesn’t just happen to Asian Americans either. It happens with middle class white Americans,. It even happens with URM kids who applied to a school that happens to have a few too many of kids from the same background in a particular year. There’s no way around it if the schools are trying balance a class using race as one of the factors. And I agree that we may put too much emphasis on this one factor while there are many other “hooks” that tip the admission scale.
@panpacific, at least for me, the point was not political but practical. I don’t want to get in whether more or fewer Asians should be accepted than now. I frankly can’t tell what’s for the greater good. But sharing strategies to beat other Asians, females, or any other subgroup members who share the same admission pool by applying to “right” schools and having “right” EC and what not, for the purpose of selfishly but somewhat fairly helping our own children over others, is a valid purpose of joining this site, isn’t it?
What I believe (what the system should be) won’t affect much my daughter individually. But what I know will.
Wait…I can’t seem to copy what was written but isn’t the reason for this thread to begin with is that a kid of any ethnic background with great grades and scores and qualifications who was WL or rejected either just didn’t have the right EC or applied to the wrong school?
@SculptorDad I didn’t see @doschicos was to provide Advice through the posts I was addressing, or I’ve heard those arguments so many times they are not advice to me any more. But that’s just me. You take what you feel is right. That’s the reason for any thread.
There are probably at least some AOs who wonder whether a kid’s ECs reflect their true passions, their parent’s expectations/pressure, or an effort to make themselves attractive to admissions. I bet there are some wonderfully qualified kids who were denied admission because the AOs were skeptical of their driving motivation.
@panpacific, I am never good at catching subtle amount of sarcasm if there was any 
I chimed in because I felt uncomfortable for the tone of thread moving against sharing information that could be useful for some readers.
@Calimex, Yes. at least some AO’s. But my faith has been dwindling with news like AOs spending less than 5 minutes per applications and all. How can you tell if a kid with Trombone choose it 5 years ago only to stand out of crowd? Maybe the kid really wanted Trombone. Maybe it was his mom’s suggestion but he got his passion sometime during that 5 years. It might be looked at though.
@buuzn03 I don’t believe the original post said anything about ethnic background or ECs. Instead, the thesis seems to be that, while test scores and grades may indicate how well one handled a certain level of academic load, the schools may not view them as the most important metrics by which to evaluate candidates. That’s not to say that scores and GPA are not important–I suspect most of us would agree that they are for a variety of reasons (e.g., they demonstrate diligence, they demonstrate a threshold level of achievement/ability, and they apparently bear some relation to one’s future SAT scores)–but they don’t tell the whole story. And to the point that @CaliMex makes, I submit that there’s some analog to ECs as well.
Both for stats and ECs, they certainly provide some understanding of what a candidate has achieved, but I suspect that the story of “how” a candidate reached those goals (e.g., an autodidact, independently pursued opportunities, overcame obstacles, etc.) and their roles in the ECs also matters. To some degree, I suspect that it’s a matter of supply and demand. I believe that many if not most of the candidates who are applying to the schools discussed on these boards have no shortage of academic achievement, have “strong” test scores, and a number of ECs (or at least availed themselves of the available ECs). If we assume that there is no shortage of applicants with such attributes, it seems reasonable to believe that (for candidates who meet certain quantitative thresholds) schools will focus more on qualitative factors, those things for which beauty is in the eye of beholder, including personal character traits (e.g., perceived charisma, presence, confidence, ambition, focus on others, leadership potential, thoughtfulness, resilience, etc.), fit with the school’s culture, and the kind of class the school wants to build.
Finally, my caveat: I’m merely speculating out loud and have no inside information.
@CaliPops exactly my point…I was referring to posts #160-163… and my point was this entire thread was ethnically global and that even the best on-paper kids get rejections for one reason or another…was just pointing that out. What I’ve learned is it doesn’t matter…AOs are looking for specifics holes to fill, whether it be red, brown, black, purple or yellow playing tuba, strings, harmonica or organ after their LAX, swim or dance recitals…if you fit, you fit and congrats! If not, don’t let the “no, thank you” affect who or what you are or how you view yourself. It is not a failure and you most likely wouldn’t have been happy at that school at that particular time anyway. (These moments of clarity are wedged between my regressions to WHY? WHY DID WE GET WL’D!!!) 
That was all I was trying to say…not sure we will ever be able to have exactly the right formula for every kid for every school, ethnicity involved or not…
Nor should we even try at the expense of sacrificing real learning or demoralizing true passion.
How in the world do y’all copy??? I’m so technologically challenged with CC, I guess. :-B
Here’s a tutorial:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/community-forum-issues/1405544-text-formatting.html#latest
Thank you @skieurope !
The advice you’d get from AOs and counselors regarding EC would probably be to find some thing(s) you are passionate about and pursue them persistently, and that depth is more important than breadth. One way to find that passion is to start exploring when the kid is little. And many people do. At the risk of stereotyping again, I see many white families start their kids on sports from early on while many Asian families start their kids on music. I’ve seen many, many kids change what they play or even drop out sports/music altogether when they get older. Some do stick with what they started and others have found something new they like and/or are good at. Most would take them as ECs throughout high school and college and eventually a hobby while only a few could use their talents as a significant tipping factor in college admission, for example, recruited athletes. The takeaway? Do NOT take EC “too seriously” and “too literally”. For the overwhelming majority, in AOs’ eyes, what kind of EC you are involved with is far less important than what you have done to pursue that interest/passion and what you have learned from the experience.
Circling back to @buuzn03 question about consultants, yes, I think they can be helpful because they can help with fit and figuring out where you’d be happy and who might value what you offer. If you read these boards, you’d think that there are only ten (okay, I exaggerated but you get the point) BS worth attending. Just as a good college consultant might open your eyes to a non HYPS school, a BS consultant can do the same. I’m not saying it’s necessary but I suspect lots of people would find it helpful. They don’t get your kid in, but they help you identify where you are likely to be valued, which is almost the same.
Of course, if you are looking only at schools that are within 2 hours of home, it’s probably not going to help because geography will define the universe, but if you’re casting a net wider and want options, it’s worth considering.
There are specific parents here who I think should hang a shingle and moonlight as consultants. You know who you are