When did your Ivy recruiting process start...(the SAT scores)

Athletic Recruits
1

<p>I'm getting back my PSAT scores soon, which will basically be my first concrete scores. I've heard that the Ivy League recruiting process doesn't really take off until the coaches have some scores to see because of the unreliability of GPA alone. So when do they really start pursuing? I plan on forwarding my PSATs as soon as I get them to the Ivy coaches; is even the PSAT not concrete enough and will these coaches wait until an athlete has actual SAT scores to show?</p>

<p>Just want to know some of the experience you might have had and when your recruiting process really started. Do they have a "scores first, recruit-ability later" policy, vice versa, or something in between? By the way my Ivy process has kind of started; I'm just wondering whether I need to show PSAT/SAT scores for it to really get going, so to speak. (Or maybe my process has been slow because the coaches simply aren't very interested right now?)</p>

2

<p>My S started receiving snail mail recruiting packs from Ivies in the Fall of his Junior year. Regular emails continued over the next year. Each time he reported a new PR, new (good!) grades and new (good!) SAT scores, the interest got a bit stronger. It continued to build through the summer after Jr. year through Official Visits and then got downright crazy right before the EA/ED deadline and likely letter drama…Good luck!</p>

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<p>I would not include a PSAT in any packet I give to a coach. The PSAT is simply not relevant – it does not get you into/rejected from a school. What are relevant before you have an official standardized score are your athletic abilities and your grades. A very preliminary evaluation can be made on those items.</p>

<p>Coaches know that rising juniors will not have scores to even determine if they make the “score cut” at a school, but the coaches need to begin indentifying a very large pool of potential recruits as early as possible. So the coaches’ hazard an educated guess at the athletic potential of what they see, view an unofficial transcript, and then place/not place the recruit on the mailing list. That mailing list evolves over the next year – some athletes are dropped when their scores are not up to that particular schools standard; others are added as their athletic ability or academic record blossoms.</p>

<p>(At D1 powerhouses, recruits have been known to verbally commit even before the start of their junior year. Then the process begins to achieve a satisfactory score – a process that can extend all the way through the winter (and beyond) of their senior year.)</p>

<p>I would advise that an athlete take the SAT I/ACT (with writing) test(s) as soon as they feel they are ready. The earlier the coach knows you are in the acceptable range, the more uncertainty is removed from a process filled with so many moving parts. (SAT II’s can wait until the student is prepared – they are important to admissions, not as important to the “first cut” of the coach.) By all means, take the tests in the fall of your junior year, and if you feel the need, retake again in the junior year. If you wait until senior year to first take the test, there is a very high risk that another athlete with the same ability/potential already took the test and achieved the needed scores. Remember, coaches don’t care about the highest score; they care about the best athlete who can get into the school (i.e., once the minimum needed score is achieved, the test game is over).</p>

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<p>Perhaps it is sport dependent, so Kiddo’s time table/experience may not apply . . . Hers is a very small sport. </p>

<p>But . . . she first contacted the Ivy coach in the early Fall of her junior year by e-mail and introduced herself giving a synopsis of both her academic statistics (GPA, class rank, school size, probably PSAT scores) and her sport statistics, both club and high school. She told the coach that we were planning a Fall visit to the school the next month and would like the opportunity to meet the coach. She also filled out the school’s recruiting form and sent that.</p>

<p>The coach e-mailed her back and gave her information as to when coach would be available during our visit. We met with the coach, asked questions, and went about our visit. Once we returned home, Kiddo sent an e-mail thanking the coach for meeting with her and that she was interested in the program/school.</p>

<p>Thereafter, Kiddo received periodic e-mails encouraging her to send additional information. Kiddo sent updates on standardized test scores, GPA/rank, and course load. I think it was in the spring that the coach asked for official transcript, official standardized test scores, and a performance video. We had technical difficulties in transferring the performance footage from video camera to a DVD format, so it took us much longer to get that to the coach than we had hoped.</p>

<p>Coach continued to check in with Kiddo during the summer, increasing nature and frequency of contact as NCAA rules permitted. Kiddo attended a summer program at the college (non-sports) for a few weeks and met with coach before she left. Kiddo was invited for an official visit the Fall of her Senior year. More talks with the coach; submitted application ED and updated coach; received coach’s sponsorship and a few weeks later, a Likely Letter.</p>

<p>But, like I said, Kiddo’s sport is a very small sport, so this experience may not hold true for the larger or more popular sports.</p>

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<p>Our experience was very similar to treemaven’s, minus the performance video and summer program. Giving PSAT scores at the beginning of junior year assures the coach you’re in the ballpark and s/he is not wasting time talking with you or meeting with you.</p>

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<p>My D was greatly encouraged to take early SATs by an ivy in order to determine a “baseline”. She is a first-semester junior, so took the SATs in November. Now that she has her initial scores (will take them again, along with subject tests, & ACT in junior spring), she was able to notify all coaches that she was already communicating with. Since these Div. 1 schools have received her SATs (which were good), there has been a lot of positive feedback - I feel that is because these colleges are now secure that my D is in their recruitable range. D never shared her PSATs - seemed pointless as it is the SATs that admissions is interested in.</p>

7

<p>My S met with a few coaches, but no real interest, despite 4.0 grades, til SATs in the “acceptable” range. THEN got invited for visits etc.</p>

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<p>If your PSAT puts you solidly in the NMF category for your state, based on stats for the prior year, it’s worth mentioning.</p>

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<p>^ Worth mentioning before I take the SAT for the first time?</p>

<p>And yes, I probably will meet the NMSF cutoff.</p>

<p>I understand that the SATs are what matters. But a coach generally knows that athletes who do well on the PSAT will most likely do similarly well on the SAT right? That is why I ask if I should start e-mailing coaches once I get the PSAT back; even though the PSAT isn’t what literally matters, it’s an early indicator to coaches whether an athlete will be qualified or not.</p>

<p>BTW I’m signed up for the SAT this Saturday. Hopefully one and done; we’ll see.</p>

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<p>My D, a HS junior, is taking the SAT and ACT this month and doesn’t plan on contacting any coaches until those scores are out. She’ll probably start with the recruiting questionaires, all of which ask for scores anyway. Our approach with S was to get testing out of the way early and then put together a one page academic/athletic resume to email or hand to coaches at unofficial visits. That seemed to generate better responses than the online recruiting questionaires. Edit: Having read what I just wrote, I’ll suggest to my D that she email a resume instead of or in addition to the recruiting questionaires.</p>

<p>You’re wise to be starting early, monstor. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Hi monstor,</p>

<p>My D did a resume in January of her Junior year in ancticipation of making college (and coach) visits during her spring break in March. She had no SAT or ACT scores yet, so in the academic part of her resume she listed her GPA, class rank and PSAT score. She was making appointments with college coaches, and wanted them to be assured that she was possibly an academic as well as athletic match. If she’d had a “real” test score in January, she would have used it instead of the PSAT.</p>

<p>She updated her resume after her sport was over in the spring, including new grades, athletic accomplishments, and her SAT score, and sent that out in June, so that coaches would have current info on July 1st.</p>

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<p>sherpa makes a good point: the recruiting questionnaires themselves ask for test scores and include the PSAT as an option. D received a number of questionnaires in the summer after sophomore year, before she had taken anything other than sophomore year PSAT, so that was what she listed.</p>

<p>Like treemaven’s D, my D sent e-mails introducing herself first. Then, when she went on unofficial visits in the fall of junior year, she brought along an unofficial copy of her transcript, and a copy of her PSAT scores to give to the coaches. She might have given them her resume too if the trip was last minute and there hadn’t be much time for introductions. As other data became available, she sent it too. For example, just recently she sent a copy of her first quarter report card to the coach so he could include it in her file when he “presented” her application to admissions. (The official transcript had to be sent out before those grades were available.)</p>

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<p>op: junior year, fall or winter. no tests scores or grades…they go in after a coach is interested in you. As far as I know they don’t sort by grades or tests before they pursue you.</p>

<p>for hyps and others the tests and grades are a filter that happens after you are noticed/pursued by the coach</p>

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<p>My son has been emailing with two Ivy coaches and has not been asked for any grades. One of his classmates just verbally committed to Brown before even taking his PSAT. I understand this is a verbal and nothing is final until he gets the likely letter, but just to support what pacheight says above that the actual athletic recruiting is somewhat separate from the academic.</p>

15

<p>Maybe we’re saying no matter how smart you are, you aren’t a recruit unless you have the athletic ability. </p>

<p>No coach is going to be very tempted by someone who is a sub-par athlete with top scores. A top athlete with sub-par scores may be salvagable if they’ll work on test retakes, and not let the GPA slip too far down. How far down may be a moving target depending on the sport.</p>

<p>From what I’ve seen, most Ivy athletes don’t have academic deficiencies, however. Keylyme sites some, so we know they’re there, but what percentage? Who knows?</p>

<p>I don’t think someone who struggles academically in HS will be very happy at an Ivy, however. It’s gonna be a long four years for a kid who is trying to compete on the field and finds he can’t keep up with the rest of the class who may not have that time commitment to sports.</p>

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<p>^^Have I cited academic deficiencies? I don’t think so…1800 on the SAT is still a very good score and would indicate that the applicant could succeed academically at a top school. The GPA’s at my son’s school are all in the lower range simply because of the combination of rigor and grade deflation at his school.</p>

<p>I only know of two people who were truly on the lower end of scores. One struggled to get a combined minimum of 950 on the old SAT scale, but this was mostly due to the fact that this person had only been in the United States for one year and was just learning the language. He did graduate from his Ivy, by the way. The other is my daughter’s ex-teammate (olympian in her sport) who always used to say how much she hates school. She shared stories of low grades and scores with my daughter. She is a senior at her Ivy(and stopped competing for them her after her freshman year because she went pro).</p>

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<p>kelylme- if you don’t mind me asking, what sport did your daughters ex-teammate go pro in?</p>

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<p>Hi keylyme- deficiencies was way to strong a word. I agree 1800 is a respectable score. </p>

<p>My point is that there are kids (not just athletes) who get in to Ivies carrying lower scores. It’s a pretty competitive academic environment, and if they don’t feel confident about their academic abilities, it would be a miserable place to be. I think most people feel “happiest” when they sense they are average or above average in the pool, whether it’s athletics, academics, basket weaving or what-have-you. I’m suggesting every kid who chooses an Ivy or other academically selective school, and who also plans to be an athlete, be aware that they are taking on a lot of work. And all the work in the world may not be enough if the student doesn’t arrive with a fair amount of raw intellect. </p>

<p>Aside: I also don’t believe the SAT is a true measure of intellect, of course. Choosing a school requires self-reflection, self-knowledge and honesty.</p>

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<p>^^Good point, riverrunner. It would not be fun to feel like you are struggling, not doing well, etc. I don’t know if this is true, but I have heard time and again that the hardest part about the Ivies is getting in and that, once you are in, it is not really any different than any other university. Not really certain if this is true. My son goes to a boarding school and, in addition to being hard to get in, it is definitely more rigorous than his public school.</p>

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<p>I don’t know how one would rate how “hard” a school is. Subjects like calculus, organic chem, philosophy, statics and dynamics, and others seem to be perceived as “hard” whether the classroom is at Harvard or community college. </p>

<p>I think what makes some schools seem hard is the presence of other smart, competitive students who raise the performance bar. Put 30 talented, driven 18-year-olds in a room with some books, essay prompts, tests and a grading scale, and watch what happens! High schools (prep or public) create these cultures by concentrating kids in accelerated/AP classes. These can be powerful learning environments as kids strive to contribute, dominate or just keep up!</p>

<p>Some high schools and colleges seem to foster cooperative learning, where kids form study groups and everyone works toward mastering the material together. Other schools seem to encourage an intercompetitive climate where each student is trying to best everyone else in the room.</p>

<p>Pop Quiz: Guess which Ivy this is:</p>

<p>"Since XXXXX took the lead among Ivy League schools to formally adopt a grade-deflation policy three years ago — limiting A’s to an average 35% across departments — students say the pressure to score the scarcer A has intensified. Students say they now eye competitive classmates warily and shy away from classes perceived as difficult.</p>

<p>“It used to be that you’d let someone copy your notes if they were sick,” says Mickel, 21, of Monroe, La. “Now, if someone misses classes, you’d probably still let them, but you’re also thinking: 'Gee, you might get the A while I don’t.”</p>

<p>Some kids would not want to combine work and social stuff and would rather grind away on their own. Others shine when they are teaching and learning from peers. Each kid will have to decide which environment helps him learn and feel at home.</p>